Originally posted by newbie2011
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Skiboard Selection Table
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Originally posted by Greco View Post
You're right about the migration and what a coincidence, I had just found a bunch of images missing and uploaded them minutes ago. It should be there now. Regarding the table, it's very old, none of the new rockered and rockered/cambered boards are on it.
Indeed the table is not up-to-date, but it's still very useful I think, maybe we can do something to update it
I could try to throw some quick code to do the calculations, but I wonder how good an accuracy would we need ? The shape of the skiboards is not identical, to simplify things one would need to cut some corners to have the same formula for the different boards ... Would the total area be considered as the whole skiboard surface or one should consider rocker size and rather calculate the actual footprint of the board ?
For instance the total area would give something like (with approximations and simplifications of the shapes) :
--------------------------------- . Total.area.(cm2)
RVL8 Rockered Condor . . .1494.66
Spruce Osprey . . . . . . . . . .1482.20
RVL8 Spliff . . . . . . . . . . . . .1404.09
RVL8 Blunt.XL . . . . . . . . . . 1360.16
Spruce Crossbow . . . . . . .1316.53
Spruce Slingshot. . . . . . . . 1300.96
Spruce 120 . . . . . . . . . . . .1281.29
RVL8 KTP . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1257.34
RVL8 DLP/ALP . .. . . . . . . . 1215.54
RVL8 Blunt . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1194.56
RVL8 Romp.Rigor . . . . . . . .1193.96
RVL8 Revolt . . . . . . . . . . . . 1160.54
RVL8 Sticky.Icky.Icky . . . . . 1097.26
RVL8 Slapdash . . . . . . . . . .1035.86
Edit: this is actually the total area of only one board, for the floating capabilities I'll have to use the double of these numbers.
Are these numbers close enough to what is usually used as board's surface area ?Myself: RVL8 2011 KTP, Spruce 125 LE, RVL8 "Drooling Clouds" RCs, Spruce 2016 Osprey
Daughter: Twoowt Pirania 95cm; RVL8 2015 Blunt XL; RVL8 2021 SII; Spruce Crossbows
Past: RVL8 2010 Revolt Trees, RVL8 2014 Condor, RVL8 2009 ALPdors, Spruce 120 Yellow/Red
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Originally posted by newbie2011 View Post
--------------------------------- . Total.area.(cm2)
RVL8 Rockered Condor . . .1494.66
Spruce Osprey . . . . . . . . . .1482.20
RVL8 Spliff . . . . . . . . . . . . .1404.09
RVL8 Blunt.XL . . . . . . . . . . 1360.16
Spruce Crossbow . . . . . . .1316.53
Spruce Slingshot. . . . . . . . 1300.96
Spruce 120 . . . . . . . . . . . .1281.29
RVL8 KTP . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1257.34
RVL8 DLP/ALP . .. . . . . . . . 1215.54
RVL8 Blunt . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1194.56
RVL8 Romp.Rigor . . . . . . . .1193.96
RVL8 Revolt . . . . . . . . . . . . 1160.54
RVL8 Sticky.Icky.Icky . . . . . 1097.26
RVL8 Slapdash . . . . . . . . . .1035.86
That's a great table. Really puts into perspective the difference in surface area's of these boards. Despite it's shorter length, look how far up the the table the XLs are, goes to show why they are so popular in powder.Just these, nothing else !
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I will need to search for the original data from 11 years ago. Your surface areas are probably close enough since it is for comparison.
As to how to factor in rocker, maybe a factor could be used in the area to reflect their greater float. Maybe Jack, Wendell and Rick could estimate what the factor should be since they ride so many different boards in all conditions.
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Osprey, Sherpa, Custom Coda 120WT, Custom DS110, Condor (Green), Spliff
Custom Twist Out duck foot bindings, Bombers (custom duck foot base plate and 3 pads), releasable S810ti on custom duck foot riser
Nordica N3 NXT ski boots (best so far)
Wife: 104 SII & 100 Blunt XL with S810ti bindings on custom "adjustable duck foot" risers
Loaners: 125LE, 105 EMP, 101 KTP, 100 Blunt XL, 98 Slapdash, 88 Blunts
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Originally posted by Bad Wolf View PostThat's a great table. Really puts into perspective the difference in surface area's of these boards. Despite it's shorter length, look how far up the the table the XLs are, goes to show why they are so popular in powder.
Here is the full table for the boards I've found so far, if anyone has more, let me know and I'll add itRocker height Rocker length Rocker Angle Camber RVL8 Rockered Condor 1494.66 ...10 170 3.3° RVL8 Condor 1494.66 - - Spruce Sherpa 1482.20 ...5 110 2.6° 6 Spruce Osprey 1482.20 ...8 300 1.5° RVL8 Spliff 1404.09 ...3 100 1.7° 6 RVL8 Blunt XL 1360.16 ...5 220 1.3° Spruce Crossbow 1316.53 ...2 80 1.4° Spruce Slingshot 1300.96 ...3 75 2.3° Spruce 125 1296.64 ...6 250 1.3° Spruce 120 1281.29 - - RVL8 KTP 1257.34 - - RVL8 DLP/ALP 1215.54 - - RVL8 Blunt 1194.56 ...4 110 2° RVL8 Romp Rigor 1193.96 - - RVL8 Revolt 1160.54 - - RVL8 Sticky Icky Icky 1097.26 ...2 80 1.4° 5 RVL8 Slapdash 1035.86 - - SnowJam 90 997.89 - - Allz 94 978.40 - - RVL8 Rumspringa 973.92 - - RVL8 Tansho 946.31 - - SnowJam 99 881.05 - - SnowJam 75 828.93 - - RVL8 Bantam 743.04 - - Originally posted by slow View PostI will need to search for the original data from 11 years ago. Your surface areas are probably close enough since it is for comparison.
As to how to factor in rocker, maybe a factor could be used in the area to reflect their greater float. Maybe Jack, Wendell and Rick could estimate what the factor should be since they ride so many different boards in all conditions.Last edited by newbie2011; 12-29-2020, 07:21 AM.Myself: RVL8 2011 KTP, Spruce 125 LE, RVL8 "Drooling Clouds" RCs, Spruce 2016 Osprey
Daughter: Twoowt Pirania 95cm; RVL8 2015 Blunt XL; RVL8 2021 SII; Spruce Crossbows
Past: RVL8 2010 Revolt Trees, RVL8 2014 Condor, RVL8 2009 ALPdors, Spruce 120 Yellow/Red
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I have always used a different rough calculation of surface area by taking the length x an average of the tip , mid board , and tail widths . If you use this type of calculation a similar table is generated in terms of rank order other then the Sherpa and the Ospreys having more surface area then the Condor and Rockered Condor. However , when you look at real life performance there are other factors to take into account . In my experience chief amongst this is the width of the board , especially the width of the board at the mid section of the board where your feet are. Boards like the Blunt Xl which is very wide in the center ride much better in powder then you would expect in a 100cm board compared to a longer board that is narrower in the center. A Rockered Condor for example can have similar float to Sherpa because of the width of the board in the center and the tail which is wider then the Sherpa although a full 20 cm shorter and less surface area to my calculations . Rocker and zero camber also affect float
In my personal experience of rank order of real life performance in smooth powder I would rank them as follows
Osprey
Sherpa
Rockered Condor
Regular Condor
Spliff
Blunt Xl
Slingshot
Crossbow
AlP
But , here is the big but , it is not only about float in smooth powder . it is how the boards perform in real life variable junky broken powder crud that is super important for me . , A good example is my feeling concerning the Rockered Condor vs the Spliff and the Blunt Xl . I have come to prefer the Spliff with a set back and the Blunt Xl (center mounted) , and the regular Condor with a custom set back over the Rockered Condor and the Sherpa over the Osprey because of the way they perform in real life variable broken pow or crud . The Rockered Condor because of its high rocker and very short running length , is a handful in broken variable snow unless you have excellent balance and run the boards at high speed which tends to smooth things out .(Which is exactly how Greco rides them ) As I have become older and perhaps a little more balance challenged and liking to run my boards not quite as fast , I prefer boards that I can ride from the tail which requires less fore and aft balance I find that on the Rockered Condor and the Osprey it is hard for me to get back on the tail and control the board that way in variable snow. The Blunt Xl is really a very unique board for me because I can ride the board dead center and not on the tail and yet it works very well for me in variable crud . I think it is because although zero cambered and rockered, the rocker is very gentle and gradual and the board itself is firm enough in the tail with a gentle enough rocker to support pressure back to the tail and has much more fore and aft stability for me riding center . Being so short it is very amenable to on the fly course corrections with fore and aft balance even when running at more moderate speeds and definitely for me seems easier to control my balance then a Rockered Condor or even a center mounted Osprey in nasty broken variable powder and crud.
Boards :
Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
Boots
K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
Bindings:
Zero Pro Non release Binding
Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.
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Originally posted by jjue View PostI have always used a different rough calculation of surface area by taking the length x an average of the tip , mid board , and tail widths .
Originally posted by jjue View PostIn my experience chief amongst this is the width of the board , especially the width of the board at the mid section of the board where your feet are. Boards like the Blunt Xl which is very wide in the center ride much better in powder then you would expect in a 100cm board compared to a longer board that is narrower in the center. A Rockered Condor for example can have similar float to Sherpa because of the width of the board in the center and the tail which is wider then the Sherpa although a full 20 cm shorter and less surface area to my calculations . Rocker and zero camber also affect float
Originally posted by jjue View PostBut , here is the big but , it is not only about float in smooth powder . it is how the boards perform in real life variable junky broken powder crud that is super important for me . , A good example is my feeling concerning the Rockered Condor vs the Spliff and the Blunt Xl . I have come to prefer the Spliff with a set back and the Blunt Xl (center mounted) , and the regular Condor with a custom set back over the Rockered Condor and the Sherpa over the Osprey because of the way they perform in real life variable broken pow or crud . The Rockered Condor because of its high rocker and very short running length , is a handful in broken variable snow unless you have excellent balance and run the boards at high speed which tends to smooth things out .(Which is exactly how Greco rides them ) As I have become older and perhaps a little more balance challenged and liking to run my boards not quite as fast , I prefer boards that I can ride from the tail which requires less fore and aft balance I find that on the Rockered Condor and the Osprey it is hard for me to get back on the tail and control the board that way in variable snow. The Blunt Xl is really a very unique board for me because I can ride the board dead center and not on the tail and yet it works very well for me in variable crud . I think it is because although zero cambered and rockered, the rocker is very gentle and gradual and the board itself is firm enough in the tail with a gentle enough rocker to support pressure back to the tail and has much more fore and aft stability for me riding center . Being so short it is very amenable to on the fly course corrections with fore and aft balance even when running at more moderate speeds and definitely for me seems easier to control my balance then a Rockered Condor or even a center mounted Osprey in nasty broken variable powder and crud.Attached FilesMyself: RVL8 2011 KTP, Spruce 125 LE, RVL8 "Drooling Clouds" RCs, Spruce 2016 Osprey
Daughter: Twoowt Pirania 95cm; RVL8 2015 Blunt XL; RVL8 2021 SII; Spruce Crossbows
Past: RVL8 2010 Revolt Trees, RVL8 2014 Condor, RVL8 2009 ALPdors, Spruce 120 Yellow/Red
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