Quad burn - is it me or my gear?

[boyanr]

Skis will also give you quad burn until you master the technique and fully let go in all conditions. And I bet on skis it will take much longer time

[zman]

Great thread and posts from everyone! I've often wondered the same thing, I started questioning my boards and if I should just make the switch to skis. Wookie summed it up pretty good for me and that's fear and rough technique, well sort of. While I can easily carve across groomers all day with ease based on proper skiing techniques and traverse double black runs my local 750' hill always has me questioning what I'm about to ride into as nice sections of powder blend into hard pack and ice without a difference in appearance so I'm always cautious and in a reactive mode. With that said, when noticing the quad burn yesterday, primarily in powder, I had a Eureka moment and that was "just relax" and let the lead foot/skiboard take the weight and do the work, akin to a slow relaxed telemark ski method. I started using poles the last 3 times out and that has made a difference in balance and control technique vs flailing arms and I'm maintaining a more upright stance plus the poles help tremendously when you want to get in or out of areas that were difficult without prior.

[valmorel]

I had horrible quad burn when I started back up skiing/skiboarding about 7 years ago. There are likely archived posts of me asking the same question as in this post from back then. I was on longer boards (Spruce 120s or 170cm skis) and was in reasonably good shape (ice hockey goalie active in several men's leagues ... at the time). I thought it was everything from my boards, to my boots, to my fitness level but have convinced myself it was none of these .... today I am less fit, wearing the same boots, and ride shorter/stiffer boards and rarely get quad burn or sore legs in general.

So what was it?

Fear and rough technique --- When reintroducing myself to snow sports I rode defensively. Always on the brakes. Always checking my speed. Never looking ahead at what the mountain was doing and skiboarding reactively not proactively.

Now I use turn shape to control speed, not panic "hockey stops". I am more comfortable with higher speeds and I am constantly looking down hill to plan my turns so I am not getting bumped around. I am skiboarding harder but using less energy, hence less quad burn.

When do I "rarely" get quad burn? When I am riding with a new skier/skiboarder and I am forced to constantly brake or stand stationary while they catch-up or while I am helping with instruction.

I know it's not great advice to say "relax, ski faster, and use less energy" but consider that this is a phase as you translate your skating skills to skiboarding. That as you get more comfortable on the hill the quad burn will lessen. While you work through this find a hot tub for apres ski soaks to help your quads recover quicker.

Exactly

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[Wookie]

I had horrible quad burn when I started back up skiing/skiboarding about 7 years ago. There are likely archived posts of me asking the same question as in this post from back then. I was on longer boards (Spruce 120s or 170cm skis) and was in reasonably good shape (ice hockey goalie active in several men's leagues ... at the time). I thought it was everything from my boards, to my boots, to my fitness level but have convinced myself it was none of these .... today I am less fit, wearing the same boots, and ride shorter/stiffer boards and rarely get quad burn or sore legs in general.

So what was it?

Fear and rough technique --- When reintroducing myself to snow sports I rode defensively. Always on the brakes. Always checking my speed. Never looking ahead at what the mountain was doing and skiboarding reactively not proactively.

Now I use turn shape to control speed, not panic "hockey stops". I am more comfortable with higher speeds and I am constantly looking down hill to plan my turns so I am not getting bumped around. I am skiboarding harder but using less energy, hence less quad burn.

When do I "rarely" get quad burn? When I am riding with a new skier/skiboarder and I am forced to constantly brake or stand stationary while they catch-up or while I am helping with instruction.

I know it's not great advice to say "relax, ski faster, and use less energy" but consider that this is a phase as you translate your skating skills to skiboarding. That as you get more comfortable on the hill the quad burn will lessen. While you work through this find a hot tub for apres ski soaks to help your quads recover quicker.

[Branden]

Some pointers that will really help with Quad Fatigue:

-Stay forward! - When your knees are bent you want to have some weight forward on the boards leaning down hill. You should feel some pressure on the shin of your boot.

-Steer with using the TIPS of the boards. Picture pushing the inside of the front edge of the nose into the snow to turn. Think of a car using the front wheels to turn.


The biggest reason for sore quads is leaning too far back and using the tails to turn (sliding as opposed to turning). This is similar to a car DRIFTING a turn.


Longer boards help you stay better balanced as well but at the cost of agility and weight.

A great stretch before and after the day with some potassium can also lessen the burn!

-B

[Greco]

I mostly ride at Timberline Lodge on Mt Hood. The skiable terrain for me can be up to around 2000' but less if the upper mountain is closed. It probably only takes about 30 seconds before I have to stop and rest my legs sometimes though. Unfortunately, I don't know any other skiboarders to go with and learn from. I'm sure my technique leaves a lot to be desired, but I'll just have to keep trying on my own and watching videos!

Can you ever go on a Friday night? I'll be taking my son on many Friday nights this season. We will hit up all three resorts on Hood over the course of the season. Last Friday was Meadows. Not going this Friday but likely next Friday.



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[ysb33r]

Thanks for all the suggestions! I am headed up to the mountain tomorrow, so I'll try to work on riding more relaxed. I do probably tense up a lot when I start to feel out of control. I also just ordered some Revel8 Stickys for my gf for her birthday and plan to try them out myself when she's not using them to see how the longer boards feel.

I mostly ride at Timberline Lodge on Mt Hood. The skiable terrain for me can be up to around 2000' but less if the upper mountain is closed. It probably only takes about 30 seconds before I have to stop and rest my legs sometimes though. Unfortunately, I don't know any other skiboarders to go with and learn from. I'm sure my technique leaves a lot to be desired, but I'll just have to keep trying on my own and watching videos!

Timberline! Great memories. Only went there once and it was my 2nd day on skiboards. I was riding Summit Nomad 99s. My legs were killing me as I still had to learn a lot about technique.

Also my first short black, when one the skiers I was with said we had to go down there to get to the lift - he's Russian and slighly crazy [emoji3]. I made it without any style, but also without falling over, My edging improved remarkably after that!

Better technique comes with more riding, but try to find some other skiboarders to ride with - it will help your progression.

Subsequently I managed to meet up with two other members of this forum on slater visits to Portland and we spent time at Meadows. Great company, great fun and overall I learnt from of them as both had different riding styles and favourite areas on the mountain .

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[Eclipse]

Thanks for all the suggestions! I am headed up to the mountain tomorrow, so I'll try to work on riding more relaxed. I do probably tense up a lot when I start to feel out of control. I also just ordered some Revel8 Stickys for my gf for her birthday and plan to try them out myself when she's not using them to see how the longer boards feel.

I mostly ride at Timberline Lodge on Mt Hood. The skiable terrain for me can be up to around 2000' but less if the upper mountain is closed. It probably only takes about 30 seconds before I have to stop and rest my legs sometimes though. Unfortunately, I don't know any other skiboarders to go with and learn from. I'm sure my technique leaves a lot to be desired, but I'll just have to keep trying on my own and watching videos!

[Fun Machine]

For me technique makes almost all the difference in quad burn. I used to get them all the time both on skis and skiboards until I took some expert lessons on technique. The instructor pointed out that I overcompensated by shifting weight forward/back/side-to-side too much and that I should instead focus on pivoting and twisting at the waist more to leverage my upper torso. Don't work so hard he said. I also learned that my comfort zone for where I wanted my feet to be placed on skis and skiboards was more forward from normal - this affects how soon and how much I lean as I ride and as the terrain changes. I ride true center on almost all twin tip equipment and forward from recommended on carving skis. If I ride set back then I tend to lean forward and bend lower at the knees which makes my quads work harder. I highly recommend taking private lessons on technique - that cost probably saved me thousands in renting/buying "better" equipment after blaming the old ones for my own deficiencies.

Edit - btw it took me 2-3 years of regular riding to gradually change my technique so it became natural. So don't expect quad burn to disappear overnight.

[CrazyBoy-1]

I agree that boards could definitely help. There is a somewhat fine line between too short and too long. Shorter boards can kick around and require more attention to keep afloat, but longer boards can be tiring to keep control of for extended periods of time. Width of boards and terrain also play into this.

Another issue is flex. It's been some time since I've ridden SJ75's, but I recall them being quite stiff. This, coupled with the short length and weight of the riser assembly, most likely makes for a rougher ride, which is tiring. I notice a difference in leg fatigue going from stiff to soft boards, even if they are the same length/width. Moving to something like the R8 Tansho might be just about right for you. The extra 15cm of length will provide some stability, and they are a much more supple build.

One other thing to keep in mind is that skiboarding uses different muscles and uses them in different ways. Even those who train their legs in the off-season will find that they get some fatigue on the slopes. Doing squats/lunges is great, but it's the small stabilizer muscles that often wear out first. Also, your legs are having to constantly adjust to terrain while riding, especially in variable/rough conditions. Holding a partial squat vs holding a partial squat while "quick stepping" your feet will result in two different kinds of fatigue.

Finally, I'll also second the point about form. I was way too stiff in my stance, when I first started out skiboarding, and this resulted in me being exhausted at the end of the day. Now, I'm much more relaxed (in general), and I find that I can cruise groomers all day with ease. Do you ride with any other skiboarders, or are you by yourself? Riding with others was a great benefit to me early on because I could see different styles and figure out what worked best for me.

[CANtoo]

setback

For me the board helps. Since you like shorter boards, you may want to try KTPs or XLs setback. They are 100cm, but feel short and playful. Do you ride much deep snow? Both handled powder better than my longer ALPs because the setback saved me the thighburn (we don't have the KTPs anymore bc they are most fun being ridden hard, and we are getting older).

[solaceiam]

My quads get so tired when I ride, but I'm pretty athletic and used to staying in a slightly squatted position a lot from playing roller derby. Are my quads just not used to the position I am in on my boards, or is it my gear? I have Snowjam 75cm boards w/ Spruce risers and Nordica Easy Move boots (all of which I got used because of limited budget). I am 5'9", about 175# and ride mostly blue groomers. I'm wondering if it is because the boards are so short so they don't have as much fore-aft stability, or if my boots put me in too much of a forward lean? I've been using this setup for about 3 years now, but only make it up to the mountain about 4-5 times a year. Any thoughts are appreciated!

I get this too. but after stacking my body and not leaning towards the tails, it got better. hope this helps: http://www.effectiveskiing.com/Topic/Stacked

[mvhoffman]

From what I have encountered in my own experiences, technique is most likely the major factor. you could actually be over-skiing. You could be a little unstable and try to make up for it with carving a bit more than normal instead of just skiing and making controlled carves. I had extreme quad burn after a few ice runs where I was trying to control the board too much instead of just skiing relaxed. If those size boards work for you, then go with it, but a longer set may be a little better for you. you don't have to jump to +100cm boards, there are a lot of sub 100 options from RVL8 and even Summit, Snowjam, etc. If you are comfortable on a smaller board, may I suggest looking for some Head 94cm. I had them previously and progressed so fast on them. They are extremely easy to skate, and very stable. they may be something to look at. They are a great option.

[Steeps]

My quads get so tired when I ride, but I'm pretty athletic and used to staying in a slightly squatted position a lot from playing roller derby. Are my quads just not used to the position I am in on my boards, or is it my gear? I have Snowjam 75cm boards w/ Spruce risers and Nordica Easy Move boots (all of which I got used because of limited budget). I am 5'9", about 175# and ride mostly blue groomers. I'm wondering if it is because the boards are so short so they don't have as much fore-aft stability, or if my boots put me in too much of a forward lean? I've been using this setup for about 3 years now, but only make it up to the mountain about 4-5 times a year. Any thoughts are appreciated!

How big is the hill/how long are the runs? I get quad burn on a regular basis, especially on the lower half of the mountain where the blue runs get hard and I tend to tense up more. It's rarely an issue on the steep upper runs when I'm fresh off the lift (and the run takes less than 30 seconds to drop). The Horse has 4000 ft+ of vertical, so most of it is just fatigue by the time I get down to that stuff. The end of the day is always worse, too.

Unfortunately, the 4 to 5 times a year might be the issue. I'm not saying you need to ride more (days tickets are expensive!), just that new muscles are involved and it takes multiple days close together to build stamina. I have the luxury of a nearby hill and a season pass so I can get up more often, but consider the first 5 - 8 days of the season to be conditioning and strength building days. I'm 10 days into this season and still getting quad burn by the end of a run. Like most sports, cross training helps but can't duplicate the same muscle positions and motions.

I'd support the idea that longer boards might help... when I feel unsteady on a fast run, I tense up and burn more. Sharp edges might help too, if you haven't given them a tune up in a while, for the similar reasons.

[slow]

I've been dealing with cramping the last 2 yrs. I've tried increased hydration, compression shorts, etc., but nothing so far has ended it. However, someone's advice on a different matter has made a difference. When I complained about E2's being too long for me at Shred Fest 3 yrs ago, Wendell said 'technique' was key. It's made a world of difference in skiboaring in general, but now it seems to be helping with the quad cramping, too.

Cramping wasn't an issue my 1st season, but the last 2 have been pretty rough. I concentrate a lot on keeping my legs relaxed as much as possible. Hopefully, someone on here will have some additional advice. I was hoping a supplement of some sort would help, but so far I haven't found anything.

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Salt Sticks work for me to avoid (or deal) with severe leg cramps:
http://saltstick.com/product/saltstick-caps

Hydrating too much just makes it worse for me.

As for quad burn, longer boards, warming up before riding and squats prior to the start of the season have helped.