Help with first time Blades

[Kocho]

Each kid is different, but between 5-6 families' about a dozen kids, most made much faster progress with regular ski lessons than without. Plus while the little ones are on ski school half the day, we adults have the slopes to ourselves. In the afternoon we do a few more runs with the kids after ski school, when they are excited to show some new skills, then they get tired and go off to have fun in the condo/pool, while we finish the ski day with a few more runs or hit the sauna...

We try to get them in ski school at least half the time. And these days, at age 11-12 and up, they ski 2-3 in a kids group on their own on the blue and easy black slopes with little supervision. It's worth it IMO to get proper instruction early and accelerate the learning a bit, so they can have more fun on more of the mountain sooner.

[Wookie]

Each kid is different, but between 5-6 families' about a dozen kids, most made much faster progress with regular ski lessons than without. Plus while the little ones are on ski school half the day, we adults have the slopes to ourselves. In the afternoon we do a few more runs with the kids after ski school, when they are excited to show some new skills, then they get tired and go off to have fun in the condo/pool, while we finish the ski day with a few more runs or hit the sauna...

We try to get them in ski school at least half the time. And these days, at age 11-12 and up, they ski 2-3 in a kids group on their own on the blue and easy black slopes with little supervision. It's worth it IMO to get proper instruction early and accelerate the learning a bit, so they can have more fun on more of the mountain sooner.

+1 for ski school and I'll stand by my original response to this thread almost a year ago about getting your kids in lessons especially if you are learning or "relearning" yourself.

To add to this, two case studies: My kids and my neighbor's kids. Both families ski together, all the kids are pretty athletic, but both families have taken different paths:

My kids -- We opt'ed not just for lessons but full 1-on-1 private lessons when they were 4 and 6. We didn't do many lessons and in one season they were competent enough to ski most intermediate terrain. After that first season we only did a tune-up group lesson here and there to correct some issues. Beyond that their instruction was by me or they taught themselves. Now 5 years later they are better skiers than I am plus have learned to skiboard and snowboard. This makes family time on the mountain awesome.

My neighbor's kids -- She was a expert skier growing up and is self described as cheap. She was determined to save money and get the satisfaction of teaching her kids herself. After several seasons of frustration she is opting for lessons but since her kids are older they are not picking up things as quickly. When we ski together it is mostly lunch at the lodge because her kids can ski/ride with my kids. She admits her biggest regret was not starting them young in lessons.

For me getting your kids to ski is like retirement planning if you start early and invest a little in professional help you'll reap big rewards later. If you start too late you are playing catch up the entire time.

[Bad Wolf]

Beware!!! Most schools teach kids how to wedge.

The one draw back with ski lessons for kids is that they primarily teach them to turn and control their speed using a wedge. Once learned, the wedge is a miserably bad habit to break and can lead to years of frustration. Our first kid was taught this way and spent several seasons fighting the wedge movements trying to get to parallel. She skied OK, but never felt confident and eventually swapped to snowboarding. She is a great snowboarder who could have been a great skier.

My wife and I put the second kid on short skis and taught her ourselves. We never let her wedge, but taught her to control her speed with turn shape and to hockey stop. She is a great natural skier who flies down the slopes, bumps and trees with confidence, control and skill.

One of the great aspects of our skiboarding is that the length of our skis allows us to break away from traditional ski conventions. This includes restrictive forms of ski lessons and techniques. Many skiers get stuck as lifetime intermediates taking endless lessons because of the wedge. There is an entire industry built around learning the wedge and then unlearning it.

Just editing to add that this isn't an "anti lesson" rant. Both our kids have taken snowboard lessons which were brilliant. The difference is that they teach correct snowboard technique right from the start. There are no bad habits to undo later.

[Wookie]

Beware!!! Most schools teach kids how to wedge.....

Wedge stops and turns are not the great evil. I think they become a problem when kids run through the first 1-2 lessons and then they (or their parents) feel the know enough and stop instruction.

I think over dependence on the "French Fry/Pizza Pie" wedge style of instruction is also a good reason to avoid large group lessons and lessons with the once a year weekend warrior set. In these scenarios you have one instructor with 6-10 kids and their primary concern is not having to chase a runaway kid down that mountain. At that point a wedge stop is really the only way to go and advanced instruction is not going to happen. It's for this reason that I started my kids with private/semi-private (2 kid) lessons. It allowed the instructor to work beyond just "being safe" in the short session. Once my kids got beyond this they could jump to intermediate/advanced group lessons which focused more on off piste riding, park riding, and advancing basic skills.

On wedge stops I think it's just another tool in the toolbox and as long as it's not the only tool you are fine. I would offer that everyone uses a "wedge" from time to time. I see my daughters (and pro skiers) use it just to scrub a little speed but to stay on line before a park feature or jump. I find myself doing the same in lift lines and tight traffic at the bottom of the hill. In those tight traffic areas hockey stops and turn shape gets you in trouble.

Lastly on the topic of teaching kids how to ski: When I am asked how I taught my kids my answer has nothing to do with lessons, my instruction, or skiing. I tell most people I taught them how to ice and roller skate first. Skating skills like edging turns, hockey stops, and balance all translate to skiing. Skating in the off-season also keeps the kids (and me) in skiing shape. Before you go and drop $50-100/person at the ski hill it's good investment to do a couple $5-10 sessions at the local ice rink.

[g.dub]

It was a long long time ago (25 years) when I was taking lessons as a wee-lad, I remember distinctly when the instructors ween'd us off of the basic pizza slice technique by having us do obstacle courses, a sort of mini-GS run on the bunny hill, this approach worked wonders and I found wedging to be a joke by the time I was 6. So I guess it all depends on the instructors.

[Daytoman]

Help with first time Blades

Wedge stops and turns are not the great evil. I think they become a problem when kids run through the first 1-2 lessons and then they (or their parents) feel the know enough and stop instruction.

I think over dependence on the "French Fry/Pizza Pie" wedge style of instruction is also a good reason to avoid large group lessons and lessons with the once a year weekend warrior set. In these scenarios you have one instructor with 6-10 kids and their primary concern is not having to chase a runaway kid down that mountain. At that point a wedge stop is really the only way to go and advanced instruction is not going to happen. It's for this reason that I started my kids with private/semi-private (2 kid) lessons. It allowed the instructor to work beyond just "being safe" in the short session. Once my kids got beyond this they could jump to intermediate/advanced group lessons which focused more on off piste riding, park riding, and advancing basic skills.

On wedge stops I think it's just another tool in the toolbox and as long as it's not the only tool you are fine. I would offer that everyone uses a "wedge" from time to time. I see my daughters (and pro skiers) use it just to scrub a little speed but to stay on line before a park feature or jump. I find myself doing the same in lift lines and tight traffic at the bottom of the hill. In those tight traffic areas hockey stops and turn shape gets you in trouble.

Lastly on the topic of teaching kids how to ski: When I am asked how I taught my kids my answer has nothing to do with lessons, my instruction, or skiing. I tell most people I taught them how to ice and roller skate first. Skating skills like edging turns, hockey stops, and balance all translate to skiing. Skating in the off-season also keeps the kids (and me) in skiing shape. Before you go and drop $50-100/person at the ski hill it's good investment to do a couple $5-10 sessions at the local ice rink.

Interesting Wookie. FWIW, i figured that it might help to be able to skate. I taught my girl how to roller skate and ice skate. Over the past year we've been a few times each. While she is still getting the hang of it, she picked it up quickly and took my instructions well. She's skating on her own while her friends are still using the little "walkers". We'll be ice skating a few more times before our trip to try to get it dialed in a little more.

When I taught myself how to ski on my first ski trip. My buddy's took about 5 minutes and showed me the wedge and then said...OK, see ya!!
So I just just started wedging and slowly started to parallel and link turns, hop turn, slide and edge to stop. By the end of day one I was negotiating blues with only the occasional yard sale falls.

I'm actually going to welcome the pizza wedge and then I'll take it from there.

I am not trying to brag but all my life I've participated in a lot of sports, I've never been "the best" at any one thing but I am good at everything that I do try. Luckily for my daughter she seems to have inherited that. Lol
This obviously isn't the case for everyone so I think this debate has merit.
As confident as I am that I could teach her, I think it'll be money well spent for a day of professional instructions, pizza wedge and all, and for her to spend the first day with some kids. It will also be a day for me to get used to the blades and for my wife to get acclimated to the snowboard after her 6 year hiatus. I'm confident....Sorry for the pun...it'll be all downhill from there.

Very interesting views though.


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[Kocho]

The other thing is whether the kid will accept the parent's teachings. Mine doesn't like instruction, especially when it comes from me - would rather do what she wants than listen to me and do drills that are clearly needed for her to fix obvious mistakes she makes. But she'd listen and do them if an "authority" figure like a ski coach is teaching... She does not like instruction, period. But when nudged to take ski lessons, it clearly shows she's learning faster than with me, because there is less wiggle room to avoid doing the drills. She does get motivated by her friends though - trying to chase down a younger boy that was irritatingly faster than her initially cured a lot of her insecurity, quickly. She was a better skier, just too insecure, so once she motivated herself to catch-up with that pesky boy, she got him and beat him and never looked back. I could not "make" her do it, but that little competition worked for her...

[Bad Wolf]

Wedge stops and turns are not the great evil.

That depends on your definition of evil. Once you wedge, it is very hard to break that habit of pushing off and weighting the inside ski. This will forever taint the start of your parallel turns and turn them into stems. Stems are not good, they cause balance issues, over weighting the inside ski, heel pushing and skidding. Yes, wedges are another tool in the box, but an unnecessary tool is not needed or ever used by better skiers. Check out the endless threads on Epic Ski on how to get rid of stemming turns. The ski industry appreciates the bad effects of wedges and has programs like "Direct To Parallel" to teach folks how to ski without them. Unfortunately most schools are lazy, or greedy, take the easy way out and teach wedges to newbies and turn them into lifetime students and terminate intermediates.


So yes, I believe them to be evil, and will always advice anyone to find a school or instructor who does not teach them.

I tell most people I taught them how to ice and roller skate first. Skating skills like edging turns, hockey stops, and balance all translate to skiing. Skating in the off-season also keeps the kids (and me) in skiing shape. Before you go and drop $50-100/person at the ski hill it's good investment to do a couple $5-10 sessions at the local ice rink.

I agree!! Skating, either ice or inline is a great way to improve your skiboard skills. There is a reason most of our pro riders had there beginnings in aggressive inline.

[Wookie]

T..... Check out the endless threads on Epic Ski on how to get rid of stemming turns......

Now I'll agree that Epic Ski is the "Great Evil" so maybe you are correct on wedge turns ... LOL.

My point is that when you have a kid in group lessons and the instructor has taught every kid a wedge stop just to control the group and then continues that throughout the course of a season as the primary tool to controlling skis then you have a problem. If in the first lesson or two it is just one of many skills that get taught then the wedge becomes just another asset instead of the primary crutch.

[valmorel]

Running a ski school must be one tough jig.

Tapatalk from my moto x

[newbie2011]

...
Once you wedge, it is very hard to break that habit of pushing off and weighting the inside ski.
...
Yes, wedges are another tool in the box, but an unnecessary tool is not needed or ever used by better skiers.
...
So yes, I believe them to be evil, and will always advice anyone to find a school or instructor who does not teach them.

I think it depends on the level of dedication in learning of the person being taught. I've learned to stop in a wedge first, because I didn't knew better. I've read and learned to ski parallel and put the weight on the outside ski, so the wedge got lost by itself, I knew what I had to do and it was just a matter of simple practice.

For kids I think it's the same: learning to wedge it can be the "safety belt", before they are able to do anything else. I remember my first times on skis: you don't know how to control those long planks, you barely manage to prevent them from overlapping, once you do overlap them because it's what a beginner does, you spend minutes trying to get them parallel and not facing the downhill neither the uphill and going in reverse, come on, a beginner in this phase can't start directly doing parallel turns and hockey stops ... Even less when it's a young kid being for the first time on skis ...

I think the wedge is something that is useful as a backup tool, some last resort (or first for a complete beginner) safety net, like the hand brake on a car. You don't usually use it, but it's there, just in case...

[Daytoman]

Help with first time Blades

All right guys I went ahead and picked up some Lange XT 100 boots so now I'm good to go. Appreciate everybody's help and I will report back after the trip or during the trip. I'm very excited!

I also may have a few more questions along the way thanks again!


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[Bad Wolf]

You have a great set up here. Quality boards with modern wide design, good boots and solid bindings. This is going to give you a much better ride than you ever would have experienced with blades like the K2 Fatties you were considering. Plus the bindings will also fit on the next set of boards you get

You really will be able to explore the whole mountain in all conditions with this set up. Good choice.

Have fun.