Touring setup with HDPE riser project and testing

[Ruben]

Thanks Jack, very happy to be part of it!

[jjue]

Glad the 12 mm riser thickness worked. Congrats on joining the very small clan of ski touring skiboarder!


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[Ruben]

Conclusion of the test: 12mm thickness works way better than 10mm. I noticed a lot more rigidity in the connection to the skiboards, they give a lot more feedback now. I barely noticed a difference between spruce risers and this setup. The only weak point that I found is that there is still a lot of flex in the HDPE when putting the heel part of the binding into tour mode. This requires a lot of force, so the HDPE will also flex a lot when doing this. However, you can also push down on another part of the riser/binding, eliminating this as a problem. Overall very happy with the setup now! We had a nice tour through medium-deep pow with it and they worked perfectly in both up- and downhill. Also very satisfied with my drilling skills: my accuracy is improving .

[Ruben]

Hi Jack,

Thanks! That is some useful information from experience. Here they are available in 12mm and in 15mm, so I guess I will stick with the 12mm then. If others have something to add, feel free to do so!

[jjue]

Hi Ruben, all my HDPE projects used 1/2 inch thick HDPE blanks which were available stock at my local plastics store and I have had no issues with breakage or excessive flexing with that thickness. 0.5 inch equals 12.7 mm . I guess if you are noticing flexing at 10mm I would recommend trying a HDPE blank with some increased thickness closer to the 12.7mm I use.
Good luck.
Jack

[Ruben]

So...

As the winter is slowly beginning, my brother has saved up enough to buy his first splitboard. Now we can go out together on some longer walks this winter. Of course this meant a testing session again to test his gear in our local indoor ski hill, and me giving him some mental support by also skinning up.

First: my skinning technique has greatly improved. I'm now much more confident walking up the hill in a straight line without even a hint of slipping (instead of doing it with kick turns). I also used less risers from my binding, which is also (reading from the internet) a good thing to practice.

Secondly: my risers were flexing quite a lot and that got me a little bit worried... You need quite a bit of force to put the heel pieces into walk mode, which leads to a lot of upward flex of the binding. I also compared this 10mm sheet of HDPE to my attack demo bindings, which are on 12 mm and those 2 mm make a lot of difference in the amount of flex they give. Also going down on the hill comparing the feeling I had this time with the feeling a few weeks ago when on the same boards, but with Spruce Risers, I noticed the ride was a lot softer with the HDPE than with the Spruce Risers. This all led me to thinking that maybe it will be a better idea to remount the bindings on 12 mm or even 15 mm hdpe. I used 10 mm for weight saving and a lower stack height, but if it might be prone to breaking on the mountain, it's perhaps best to remount the bindings with a thicker version. The thing I am most worried about is the moments when putting the binding into walk mode and when I'm jumping or doing olliles and nollies (as it will then first move the riser up, and then the board, with possibly a lot of flex in the riser).

What do you guys think? Any ideas on this subject? I'm in for some advice from some more experienced people with these kind of projects.

[jjue]

Great job on your touring set up, Ruben, and nice photos in the backcountry , and nice trip report. I think the Spliff is an excellent choice for the backcountry, and like you I have found that crampons are essential for our wide skiboards climbing in slippery firm snow.

[Ruben]

So, as promised: here's the little story of the first test 'in the wild':

To summarize already at the beginning: it was a success! The setup worked wonderfully, even on the quite difficult conditions we met. When we arrived at the ski area it was clear that most of the fresh snow of the week before had already been skied off and some high temperatures during the day created a bit of a melt-freeze cycle, which made conditions not very favourable for good skiing. Avalanche danger was low to moderate, with little avalanche problems that we were likely to find. We decided to try and ski most of the resort in the first day, to get a bit of a feel for places where we were most likely to find good snow. We concluded that all south faces were pretty packed, but in some north facing areas, there was still some softer snow, so we would go for one of those options (we had already mapped some lines at home using fatmap). In the end, we thought that only two options would work well: one option was a small ridge tour of around 20-ish minutes and the other one was just a five min. bootpack over a little track made by the pistenbully. Since my touring partner is my little brother, who doesn't have real touring gear himself (yet, he's saving up for a splitboard), a longer tour was not possible this year. Due to the hard snow on the ridge, our speed was almost identical, which was nice. Getting the gear set up was still a bit clumsy, as I am not very experienced and fast yet, but I got everything to work well and started the tour. There was a little sign of a previous skintrack, but it wasn't always the best route for the slippery conditions (an icy layer over soft snow), so I had to get a bit creative at times. I was very glad I had my ski crampons on, as there were a few times were I just slid away, but was saved by a firm step onto the crampons. After a while I got a bit more confident, so that I could go a little faster. We quickly reached our drop-in point, where there was indeed very nice and soft snow! We were a bit concerned of slides at the beginning, as there were a few plates of snow sliding away under our feet in the first meters when walking onto the face, so we decided to dig a little snowpit. We couldn't find any real fragile layer and doing a column test also gave a very stable result, so we found we were good to go! The snow was amazing at the descent and we were very fired up after the run! A super good first experience with touring and now my little brother is even more stoked to save up for his first splitboard! This was the face we were descending: https://fatmap.com/adventures/@45.40...tellite,winter

[jjue]

Nice work! Thanks for sharing! Keep us posted on how it works in the wild!

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[Ruben]

Last weekend I managed to assemble the setup and it works beautifully! Immediately afterwards I did a small test at my local indoor slope, walking up 4 times (+- 250 vertical meters ~ 820 vertical feet). Everything worked as planned and I even had quite a big crash on the way down. Normally I pop a bit more from the tails with my DLP's, but with the Spliffs they just simply flexed away, so I had a nice hip landing. Getting used to the touring binding system was a bit tricky in the beginning, but the last switch was already quite a bit faster than the first one. Walking went super smooth. I had not put on the crampon receptors yet, but the slope is really mellow (11 degrees on average, a bit more incline at the top), so those weren't necessary. This assembly was also a bit easier than the previous one, because I didn't need to cut out holes on the bottom to accomodate the nuts for the bolts. Screwing in the HDPE I pre-drilled with a small drill (less diameter than you would do for direct drilling, can't remember exactly which one, but somewhere between 2-3 mm). This was to prevent the screw from choosing its own direction and place where to go into the HDPE. This setup uses a 10mm HDPE sheet, which is a bit on the thinner side. While adjusting the bindings or getting the heel pieces into touring mode, I can slightly bend the HDPE. Time will tell how it will hold, but it might be a bit safer to go with just a few mm thicker. Below are some pictures of the setup (complete with crampons and skins) and a small video of me walking up the indoor hill. In the last picture you see the very tight margins between the toe piece and the 4x10 mounting option. This was a very marginal fit, but I can use this option now, so that is a big win (and yes, that fits).



https://youtube.com/shorts/6UkufEPVGgg

[Ruben]

Appreciate the destruction test! Those screws should be good to go.

I sometimes break stuff when I ride... so I worry.

And rightfully so! Better safe than sorry, especially when touring or in sketchy terrain.

[Steeps]

Appreciate the destruction test! Those screws should be good to go.

I sometimes break stuff when I ride... so I worry.

[Ruben]

Nice to see another touring solution taking shape! I've been somewhat skeptical of the screw-holding abilities of HDPE, so your bolt setup seems like a good idea.

For the touring setup, the idea is that the screws will go directly into the HDPE. This first setup was just because I could not find the right size screws (but I think I created a nice solution to counter that ofcourse). As I was a bit concerned after your comment, I did some research on the internet about the screw-holding capabilities and found that most sources say it is strong enough for this setup. As I wasn't completely convinced yet, I did a little experiment by using a small test strip of HDPE, which I didn't need anymore. I got a screw in (using a very small pre-drilled hole, much smaller than for skis, around +- 1 mm) and then tried to pull on it with a pair using water pump pliers. I pulled as hard on the screw as I could while standing on the HDPE, sometimes even lifting up my feet in the process. The result speaks for itself. The HDPE now has a permanent bend in it (my finger fits under it), but the screw did not move at all (I didn't screw it in completely so that I could grip it well with the pliers). Something to look out for though is that on the underside of the HDPE, there was a small bobble of displaced material from the screwing process.

[Steeps]

Nice to see another touring solution taking shape! I've been somewhat skeptical of the screw-holding abilities of HDPE, so your bolt setup seems like a good idea.

The Spliffs should work well for you; I'm around your weight and love them in deep powder. I also have a pair of Playmakers, and really haven't noticed any difference in the amount of float. I'm planning to try my Playmakers with a touring setup, but mostly because they're a bit more reliable in difficult and icy conditions. You'll appreciate the rocker on the Spliffs as compared to your DLPs in choppy snow or when entering powder from a harder surface.

[Ruben]

jjue I will! Might even make a video about the whole setup, and certainly will post some footage of using them in the wild.

I know that HDPE is strong as I have done this riser experiment as well. One recommendation of caution is to get some bigger washers for on the bottom. With a bigger washer it will offset the direct pressure and strengthen the mount even a washer that is a little thicker just for the added strength

Good tips here, thanks! I will see if it fits. The HDPE is 12mm/just under half an inch thick, so I am a bit concerned about removing too much material, but I'll just test it and see if it sticks out with washers or not. As this will be a loaner set for people new to the sport or skiing converts, I don't expect too much forces acting on the bindings (especially not upwards pulling forces), but if it can be stronger, it's always better.