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  • Touring setup with HDPE riser project and testing

    Hi all!

    After getting into skiboarding in 2017, I have started to look more and more at the offpiste and the last years I have also been very tempted to try touring with my skiboards. This year I finally saved up enough to be able to afford a touring setup. It will be a different kind of setup than mostly seen here, so I thought it would be nice to share the journey with you!

    The idea
    After doing a lot of searching on the forums, I found a few different ways to use skiboards for touring. I was specifically looking for a release setup, so at first I was thinking of getting frame bindings and trying to let those work with skiboards. However, as these are very heavy and have a very high stack height, this seemed not ideal to me. It would have the advantage of not having to buy new boots, but since my old boots could either be comfortable or have a lot of control if I buckled them tighter (not both unfortunately), I decided to pull the trigger and buy some new atomic hawx prime touring boots with pin inserts. After doing some further research on the forum, I found some topics about using HDPE risers on skiboards, most notably this project from Bad Wolf. After learning some more about bindings (how elasticity works and such), I decided that this could be a good option to mount some touring bindings on. Up next was the decision which bindings to use. As I don't live close to any mountains (the Netherlands is very flat, has a few days of snow per year, but nothing skiable in any way), I decided that I do not need the lightest bindings, as I won't have so many days on snow where I will do big trips. In my case it will mostly be lift-assited touring: take the lift to get up to a nice starting spot and go on tours from there. As I also would like to learn drop some cliffs and have a pretty agressive/hard riding skiboard style, I thought it would also be a good idea to have a binding that has maximum safety (release when it should, stay on when I'm skiboarding hard). This comes at the expense of weight of course, but that is worth it in my opinion.

    Gear choices
    I have had a minor injury on my knee already, which luckily was not bad enough to do permanent damage, so I would like to keep them that way . After these considerations, I ended up with the choice between the Dynafit Rotation or the Fritschi Tecton. Both would be good for this way of touring and skiboarding, but I had heard that the Fritschi is a bit more user-friendly, and the elasticity and lateral release at the toe seemed a bit safer than the Dynafit for my use, so I decided to get some Tectons.

    Then along came the problem of getting some ski crampons and also a touring skiboard. As I only had a set of DLP's, it would also be nice to have a pair of more powder oriented skiboards, so I was looking at the Playmakers or Spliffs (other brands than RVL8 were a bit out my budget, as they are very expensive to get in Europe). However, since the brakes of the Tectons are only 120 in size (in reality they are a bit wider though, so I don't think it will be problematic) and I could not get wide crampons for the Tecton, I chose to go with the Spliffs. I think they will be very good in all the conditions we encounter in the Alps, and since I'm not that heavy (74 kg at the time of writing, 163 lbs for the Americans ), I don't think the extra float will be that much needed. The DLP's are already quite good in steep and deep powder, so I think the Spliffs will be superb at not-so-steep powder for me. After making this decision, I found some G3 Ion/Zed crampons, that could be mounted as an aftermarket crampon. You can fix these directly to a ski (or a riser in this case), and they come in a 130 mm wide size, which is perfect for the Spliff.

    Getting some skins was the last hurdle, but after some more research, I found out about the Contour Hybrid skins, which also come in a size that is length trimmable and 135mm wide. They seemed perfect for the Spliffs, so after getting those, my gear was complete!

    Mounting
    Since I had never worked with HDPE before, and I still had some Tyrolia Attack Demo bindings lying around from a previous pair of Eman Uprise skiboards (my first skiboards, with inserts for these bindings, unfortunately I snapped the boards...). I also thought about mounting them also to a pair of HDPE sheets, so that I could use them as loaners. Since I now have two pairs of skiboards, might as well try to get some other people into the sport! I already have a skiing buddy who would very much like to try them, so they will be of good use. I started off with making a drawing of the pattern, and quickly found out that the binding rails would interfere with the 4x10 pattern. As I use this pattern regularly for setback on the DLP's in powdery conditions (and I will be on the Spliffs as well), I decided to move the rails a bit forwards and backwards. This would decrease the ability for very small ski boots to fit in the bindings (I lose the first two options), but that's just a tradeoff I have to make. For these bindings, I did not have the correct mounting screws and the big hardware store also did not have screws that were so short, yet thick enough to hold a binding. Therefore, I chose to make an insert in the bottom of the riser and just use a rvs metal bolt with a half-high nut for every binding screw. Using a dremel, I could create the notch required to keep the bolt. This worked beautifully.

    Some pictures of the final result and during the mounting are below. It doesn't look the prettiest, but I think it'll work well.

    After writing this, I am going to mount the Tectons to the HDPE riser. These of course come with the screws that you normally should use while mounting them on skis, so I won't need to make insets there. I will post soon about the mounting process and I might do some test on my local indoor slope (the only permanent snow we have over here...). Of course I will also keep this topic updated during my first real test in the Alps in february. To be continued...


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    Attached Files

  • #2
    Originally posted by Ruben View Post
    Hi all!
    However, since the brakes of the Tectons are only 120 in size (in reality they are a bit wider though, so I don't think it will be problematic) and I could not get wide crampons for the Tecton, I chose to go with the Spliffs. I think they will be very good in all the conditions we encounter in the Alps, and since I'm not that heavy (74 kg at the time of writing, 163 lbs for the Americans ), I don't think the extra float will be that much needed. The DLP's are already quite good in steep and deep powder, so I think the Spliffs will be superb at not-so-steep powder for me. After making this decision, I found some G3 Ion/Zed crampons, that could be mounted as an aftermarket crampon.
    You might be be better off to buy a pair of Skeats to use as crampons. They are more versatile and very quick to fit when on-ski. See https://www.skincleats.com/new-produ...ats-claws-pair

    And a note on the Tectons from experience. Stepping into the pins can be fiddly sometimes - especially if there is ice under the boots or in the toe pin holes. If there is snow/ice under the heel, the hee; piece will sometimes revert to uphill, rather downhill when you step in for the descent.

    Finally on the mounting position. THe heel piece has a 25mm adjustment. Set it up so that your own boot length is mid-way and slightly set back. If you slide the heel piece completely dead centre. if you don't do that you most-forward position will be forward of centre, which will be a really unconfortable experience going up or down.
    Current: '20 Spruce Slingshot 119s, '20 Spruce Crossbow 115s, '18 Spruce Osprey 132s (touring), '21 Rvl8 SII 104s, '21 Summit Invertigos 118s
    Also: '11 Allz Elaila 94s, '12 Rvl8 Rockered Condor 110s, '15 Spruce Osprey 132s , '18 Spruce Crossbow 115s
    Previous: Gaspo Hot Wax 84s, Mantrax 98s, Summit Nomad 99s, Spruce Yellow 120s, Eman Uprise 104s

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by ysb33r View Post

      You might be be better off to buy a pair of Skeats to use as crampons. They are more versatile and very quick to fit when on-ski. See https://www.skincleats.com/new-produ...ats-claws-pair

      And a note on the Tectons from experience. Stepping into the pins can be fiddly sometimes - especially if there is ice under the boots or in the toe pin holes. If there is snow/ice under the heel, the hee; piece will sometimes revert to uphill, rather downhill when you step in for the descent.

      Finally on the mounting position. THe heel piece has a 25mm adjustment. Set it up so that your own boot length is mid-way and slightly set back. If you slide the heel piece completely dead centre. if you don't do that you most-forward position will be forward of centre, which will be a really unconfortable experience going up or down.
      Thanks for the tips Schalk! Especially the mounting position is something I didn't think through entirely. You were just in time saving me from that. I will set them back 7 mm then, so that the most forward position will be almost dead center.

      For the icing part, that's something every pin binding struggles with I believe. The most useful tip I read was to put the toes in walking position first (to clean excess snow out of the pin holes) and then put them in ski mode. Of course cleaning your bindings free from ice in critical parts when switching is also necessary. Good to know these quirks from an experienced user.

      As for the skeats, I have looked into them, but I only found out about the claws after I bought the G3 crampons. I will just use these crampons for now and see how they work. If I'm not finding enough grip from them, I will look into the skeats.

      Another thanks for your help, it is greatly appreciated!

      Comment


      • #4
        Nice work Ruben! Let us know how it goes after you have the whole set up put together and post more pictures!
        Boards :
        Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
        Boots
        K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
        Bindings:
        Zero Pro Non release Binding
        Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
        Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
        Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
        Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Ruben View Post
          Hi all!

          After getting into skiboarding in 2017, I have started to look more and more at the offpiste and the last years I have also been very tempted to try touring with my skiboards. This year I finally saved up enough to be able to afford a touring setup. It will be a different kind of setup than mostly seen here, so I thought it would be nice to share the journey with you!

          The idea
          After doing a lot of searching on the forums, I found a few different ways to use skiboards for touring. I was specifically looking for a release setup, so at first I was thinking of getting frame bindings and trying to let those work with skiboards. However, as these are very heavy and have a very high stack height, this seemed not ideal to me. It would have the advantage of not having to buy new boots, but since my old boots could either be comfortable or have a lot of control if I buckled them tighter (not both unfortunately), I decided to pull the trigger and buy some new atomic hawx prime touring boots with pin inserts. After doing some further research on the forum, I found some topics about using HDPE risers on skiboards, most notably this project from Bad Wolf. After learning some more about bindings (how elasticity works and such), I decided that this could be a good option to mount some touring bindings on. Up next was the decision which bindings to use. As I don't live close to any mountains (the Netherlands is very flat, has a few days of snow per year, but nothing skiable in any way), I decided that I do not need the lightest bindings, as I won't have so many days on snow where I will do big trips. In my case it will mostly be lift-assited touring: take the lift to get up to a nice starting spot and go on tours from there. As I also would like to learn drop some cliffs and have a pretty agressive/hard riding skiboard style, I thought it would also be a good idea to have a binding that has maximum safety (release when it should, stay on when I'm skiboarding hard). This comes at the expense of weight of course, but that is worth it in my opinion.

          Gear choices
          I have had a minor injury on my knee already, which luckily was not bad enough to do permanent damage, so I would like to keep them that way . After these considerations, I ended up with the choice between the Dynafit Rotation or the Fritschi Tecton. Both would be good for this way of touring and skiboarding, but I had heard that the Fritschi is a bit more user-friendly, and the elasticity and lateral release at the toe seemed a bit safer than the Dynafit for my use, so I decided to get some Tectons.

          Then along came the problem of getting some ski crampons and also a touring skiboard. As I only had a set of DLP's, it would also be nice to have a pair of more powder oriented skiboards, so I was looking at the Playmakers or Spliffs (other brands than RVL8 were a bit out my budget, as they are very expensive to get in Europe). However, since the brakes of the Tectons are only 120 in size (in reality they are a bit wider though, so I don't think it will be problematic) and I could not get wide crampons for the Tecton, I chose to go with the Spliffs. I think they will be very good in all the conditions we encounter in the Alps, and since I'm not that heavy (74 kg at the time of writing, 163 lbs for the Americans ), I don't think the extra float will be that much needed. The DLP's are already quite good in steep and deep powder, so I think the Spliffs will be superb at not-so-steep powder for me. After making this decision, I found some G3 Ion/Zed crampons, that could be mounted as an aftermarket crampon. You can fix these directly to a ski (or a riser in this case), and they come in a 130 mm wide size, which is perfect for the Spliff.

          Getting some skins was the last hurdle, but after some more research, I found out about the Contour Hybrid skins, which also come in a size that is length trimmable and 135mm wide. They seemed perfect for the Spliffs, so after getting those, my gear was complete!

          Mounting
          Since I had never worked with HDPE before, and I still had some Tyrolia Attack Demo bindings lying around from a previous pair of Eman Uprise skiboards (my first skiboards, with inserts for these bindings, unfortunately I snapped the boards...). I also thought about mounting them also to a pair of HDPE sheets, so that I could use them as loaners. Since I now have two pairs of skiboards, might as well try to get some other people into the sport! I already have a skiing buddy who would very much like to try them, so they will be of good use. I started off with making a drawing of the pattern, and quickly found out that the binding rails would interfere with the 4x10 pattern. As I use this pattern regularly for setback on the DLP's in powdery conditions (and I will be on the Spliffs as well), I decided to move the rails a bit forwards and backwards. This would decrease the ability for very small ski boots to fit in the bindings (I lose the first two options), but that's just a tradeoff I have to make. For these bindings, I did not have the correct mounting screws and the big hardware store also did not have screws that were so short, yet thick enough to hold a binding. Therefore, I chose to make an insert in the bottom of the riser and just use a rvs metal bolt with a half-high nut for every binding screw. Using a dremel, I could create the notch required to keep the bolt. This worked beautifully.

          Some pictures of the final result and during the mounting are below. It doesn't look the prettiest, but I think it'll work well.

          After writing this, I am going to mount the Tectons to the HDPE riser. These of course come with the screws that you normally should use while mounting them on skis, so I won't need to make insets there. I will post soon about the mounting process and I might do some test on my local indoor slope (the only permanent snow we have over here...). Of course I will also keep this topic updated during my first real test in the Alps in february. To be continued...


          Click image for larger version Name:	TYR_riser_1.jpg Views:	0 Size:	442.0 KB ID:	265349Click image for larger version Name:	TYR_riser_2.jpg Views:	0 Size:	433.8 KB ID:	265350Click image for larger version Name:	TYR_riser_3.jpg Views:	0 Size:	871.9 KB ID:	265351Click image for larger version Name:	TYR_riser_5.jpg Views:	0 Size:	1.17 MB ID:	265353Click image for larger version Name:	TYR_riser_4.jpg Views:	0 Size:	1.10 MB ID:	265354
          I know that HDPE is strong as I have done this riser experiment as well. One recommendation of caution is to get some bigger washers for on the bottom. With a bigger washer it will offset the direct pressure and strengthen the mount even a washer that is a little thicker just for the added strength
          Skis/Skiboards:
          2019/2020 Lib Tech Backwards 166cm with Marker Squire 11 Bindings
          2018 Spruce "Woody" Sherpa with Marker Griffon 13 DM Track
          2018 "Dave's Face" DLPs w Snowjam Non Release Bindings
          2016/2017 Rossignol Soul 7HD 164cm with with Marker Griffon 13 DM Track

          2011 Spruce "Blue Board" Sherpa
          20?? Spruce Sherpa "White Board" Prototypes still in plastic

          Boots:
          2012 Salomon SPK 90
          2011 Salomon SPK Kaos 100
          2008 Salomon SPK Kaos 95

          Comment


          • #6
            jjue I will! Might even make a video about the whole setup, and certainly will post some footage of using them in the wild.

            Originally posted by mvhoffman View Post

            I know that HDPE is strong as I have done this riser experiment as well. One recommendation of caution is to get some bigger washers for on the bottom. With a bigger washer it will offset the direct pressure and strengthen the mount even a washer that is a little thicker just for the added strength
            Good tips here, thanks! I will see if it fits. The HDPE is 12mm/just under half an inch thick, so I am a bit concerned about removing too much material, but I'll just test it and see if it sticks out with washers or not. As this will be a loaner set for people new to the sport or skiing converts, I don't expect too much forces acting on the bindings (especially not upwards pulling forces), but if it can be stronger, it's always better.

            ​​​​

            Comment


            • #7
              Nice to see another touring solution taking shape! I've been somewhat skeptical of the screw-holding abilities of HDPE, so your bolt setup seems like a good idea.

              The Spliffs should work well for you; I'm around your weight and love them in deep powder. I also have a pair of Playmakers, and really haven't noticed any difference in the amount of float. I'm planning to try my Playmakers with a touring setup, but mostly because they're a bit more reliable in difficult and icy conditions. You'll appreciate the rocker on the Spliffs as compared to your DLPs in choppy snow or when entering powder from a harder surface.
              BOARDSLAYER
              Base / Edge Destruction X X X
              Cores Snapped X X X

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Steeps View Post
                Nice to see another touring solution taking shape! I've been somewhat skeptical of the screw-holding abilities of HDPE, so your bolt setup seems like a good idea.
                For the touring setup, the idea is that the screws will go directly into the HDPE. This first setup was just because I could not find the right size screws (but I think I created a nice solution to counter that ofcourse). As I was a bit concerned after your comment, I did some research on the internet about the screw-holding capabilities and found that most sources say it is strong enough for this setup. As I wasn't completely convinced yet, I did a little experiment by using a small test strip of HDPE, which I didn't need anymore. I got a screw in (using a very small pre-drilled hole, much smaller than for skis, around +- 1 mm) and then tried to pull on it with a pair using water pump pliers. I pulled as hard on the screw as I could while standing on the HDPE, sometimes even lifting up my feet in the process. The result speaks for itself. The HDPE now has a permanent bend in it (my finger fits under it), but the screw did not move at all (I didn't screw it in completely so that I could grip it well with the pliers). Something to look out for though is that on the underside of the HDPE, there was a small bobble of displaced material from the screwing process.
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                Comment


                • #9
                  Appreciate the destruction test! Those screws should be good to go.

                  I sometimes break stuff when I ride... so I worry.
                  BOARDSLAYER
                  Base / Edge Destruction X X X
                  Cores Snapped X X X

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Steeps View Post
                    Appreciate the destruction test! Those screws should be good to go.

                    I sometimes break stuff when I ride... so I worry.
                    And rightfully so! Better safe than sorry, especially when touring or in sketchy terrain.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Last weekend I managed to assemble the setup and it works beautifully! Immediately afterwards I did a small test at my local indoor slope, walking up 4 times (+- 250 vertical meters ~ 820 vertical feet). Everything worked as planned and I even had quite a big crash on the way down. Normally I pop a bit more from the tails with my DLP's, but with the Spliffs they just simply flexed away, so I had a nice hip landing. Getting used to the touring binding system was a bit tricky in the beginning, but the last switch was already quite a bit faster than the first one. Walking went super smooth. I had not put on the crampon receptors yet, but the slope is really mellow (11 degrees on average, a bit more incline at the top), so those weren't necessary. This assembly was also a bit easier than the previous one, because I didn't need to cut out holes on the bottom to accomodate the nuts for the bolts. Screwing in the HDPE I pre-drilled with a small drill (less diameter than you would do for direct drilling, can't remember exactly which one, but somewhere between 2-3 mm). This was to prevent the screw from choosing its own direction and place where to go into the HDPE. This setup uses a 10mm HDPE sheet, which is a bit on the thinner side. While adjusting the bindings or getting the heel pieces into touring mode, I can slightly bend the HDPE. Time will tell how it will hold, but it might be a bit safer to go with just a few mm thicker. Below are some pictures of the setup (complete with crampons and skins) and a small video of me walking up the indoor hill. In the last picture you see the very tight margins between the toe piece and the 4x10 mounting option. This was a very marginal fit, but I can use this option now, so that is a big win (and yes, that fits).

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                      https://youtube.com/shorts/6UkufEPVGgg

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Nice work! Thanks for sharing! Keep us posted on how it works in the wild!

                        Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk

                        Boards :
                        Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
                        Boots
                        K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
                        Bindings:
                        Zero Pro Non release Binding
                        Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                        Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
                        Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
                        Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          So, as promised: here's the little story of the first test 'in the wild':

                          To summarize already at the beginning: it was a success! The setup worked wonderfully, even on the quite difficult conditions we met. When we arrived at the ski area it was clear that most of the fresh snow of the week before had already been skied off and some high temperatures during the day created a bit of a melt-freeze cycle, which made conditions not very favourable for good skiing. Avalanche danger was low to moderate, with little avalanche problems that we were likely to find. We decided to try and ski most of the resort in the first day, to get a bit of a feel for places where we were most likely to find good snow. We concluded that all south faces were pretty packed, but in some north facing areas, there was still some softer snow, so we would go for one of those options (we had already mapped some lines at home using fatmap). In the end, we thought that only two options would work well: one option was a small ridge tour of around 20-ish minutes and the other one was just a five min. bootpack over a little track made by the pistenbully. Since my touring partner is my little brother, who doesn't have real touring gear himself (yet, he's saving up for a splitboard), a longer tour was not possible this year. Due to the hard snow on the ridge, our speed was almost identical, which was nice. Getting the gear set up was still a bit clumsy, as I am not very experienced and fast yet, but I got everything to work well and started the tour. There was a little sign of a previous skintrack, but it wasn't always the best route for the slippery conditions (an icy layer over soft snow), so I had to get a bit creative at times. I was very glad I had my ski crampons on, as there were a few times were I just slid away, but was saved by a firm step onto the crampons. After a while I got a bit more confident, so that I could go a little faster. We quickly reached our drop-in point, where there was indeed very nice and soft snow! We were a bit concerned of slides at the beginning, as there were a few plates of snow sliding away under our feet in the first meters when walking onto the face, so we decided to dig a little snowpit. We couldn't find any real fragile layer and doing a column test also gave a very stable result, so we found we were good to go! The snow was amazing at the descent and we were very fired up after the run! A super good first experience with touring and now my little brother is even more stoked to save up for his first splitboard! This was the face we were descending: https://fatmap.com/adventures/@45.40...tellite,winter
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                          Attached Files

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Great job on your touring set up, Ruben, and nice photos in the backcountry , and nice trip report. I think the Spliff is an excellent choice for the backcountry, and like you I have found that crampons are essential for our wide skiboards climbing in slippery firm snow.
                            Boards :
                            Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
                            Boots
                            K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
                            Bindings:
                            Zero Pro Non release Binding
                            Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                            Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
                            Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
                            Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              So...

                              As the winter is slowly beginning, my brother has saved up enough to buy his first splitboard. Now we can go out together on some longer walks this winter. Of course this meant a testing session again to test his gear in our local indoor ski hill, and me giving him some mental support by also skinning up.

                              First: my skinning technique has greatly improved. I'm now much more confident walking up the hill in a straight line without even a hint of slipping (instead of doing it with kick turns). I also used less risers from my binding, which is also (reading from the internet) a good thing to practice.

                              Secondly: my risers were flexing quite a lot and that got me a little bit worried... You need quite a bit of force to put the heel pieces into walk mode, which leads to a lot of upward flex of the binding. I also compared this 10mm sheet of HDPE to my attack demo bindings, which are on 12 mm and those 2 mm make a lot of difference in the amount of flex they give. Also going down on the hill comparing the feeling I had this time with the feeling a few weeks ago when on the same boards, but with Spruce Risers, I noticed the ride was a lot softer with the HDPE than with the Spruce Risers. This all led me to thinking that maybe it will be a better idea to remount the bindings on 12 mm or even 15 mm hdpe. I used 10 mm for weight saving and a lower stack height, but if it might be prone to breaking on the mountain, it's perhaps best to remount the bindings with a thicker version. The thing I am most worried about is the moments when putting the binding into walk mode and when I'm jumping or doing olliles and nollies (as it will then first move the riser up, and then the board, with possibly a lot of flex in the riser).

                              What do you guys think? Any ideas on this subject? I'm in for some advice from some more experienced people with these kind of projects.

                              Comment

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