RVL8 Backcountry Kit

[jjue]

Disclaimer:
Understand that backcountry skiboarding is a high risk activity and I recommend you take avalanche courses , purchase additional avalanche gear such as beacons , shovels and probes and go with experienced backcountry riders. Also this a personal modification that you choose to use on your skiboards accepting all risks inherent with equipment failure and backcountry risks . This is not a manufacture recommended use of your binding or these binding parts and is only a binding modification I have done myself for my own use and am sharing with the skiboard public for their own education as to possible personal ways of modifying their bindings for backcountry use.

One of the recurrent dreams I have had about backcountry skiboarding is that there would be one day when a skiboard company would offer a complete backcountry touring kit , with boards and bindings that would be backcountry compatible out of the box. This dream also included a do it all binding that would serve both as a fully capable resort and backcountry binding without any aftermarket modification. This season that dream came true . The convergence of three themes all came together this season . Research and development that has resulted in the commercial production of two unique skiboards that IMHO are dream backcountry skiboards , research and development in producing the new RVL8 snowboard binding upgrade kit , and finally research in using modified snowboard bindings as backcountry bindings have all come together to make that dream come true. Prior to using the new RVL8 soft boot binding I used the Rocker soft boot skiboard binding which is no longer commercially available . Much of the information on my Rocker Softboot touring thread applies also to the new RVL8 Softboot binding and you may wish to check out that link also.
https://forums.skiboardsonline.com/f...ft-touring-rig


Let me introduce you to my RVL8 backcountry touring quiver .
First here are two unique and magical backcountry dream boards both , like all RVL8 boards with the essential 4 x 4 machine inserts , the exact same insert patterns that most snowboards have.
The 110 cm Rockered Condor is the backcountry beast , deeply rockered and fully capable in the deepest of backcountry snows . The longest and widest 4x4 insert equipped skiboard on the planet and fully rockered, this is IT, the most powerful RVL8 backcountry board. No set back necessary , center mount all the way , a dream all condition board.
It’s little brother is the Blunt . Uber wide like the Condor but much more manuverable and snowshoe sized little guy at 88cm long. Also rockered but not as deeply rockered as the RC it is a miracle backcountry board that performs way beyond expectations .

IMG_0778_zps62aef57d by Jack Jue Jr, on Flickr

The essential binding that makes backcountry touring on either of these two boards possible is the modified snowboard bindings sold here at SBOL . These bindings have been modified with the new RVL8 Snowboard binding upgrade kit.
Here is how to begin touring on your RVL8 board instantly .
Buy a pair of climbing skins trim them and then attach them to the bottom of your skiboard. They stick on with a glue that does not interfere with the wax job or glide of your board and does not leave any stickiness when the skins are removed. The tip and the tail are held onto the board with metal hooks . One pair of long ski climbing skins will supply enough material to cut skins for both a pair of RC’s and a pair of Blunts !

IMG_0770_zps894676f0 by Jack Jue Jr, on Flickr
IMG_0772_zpsf17cb1e6 by Jack Jue Jr, on Flickr
IMG_0771_zps60a256f9 by Jack Jue Jr, on Flickr

Just take the binding and rotate the upper and middle straps to the back . Intertwine the straps as in the picture below . This keeps the straps out of the way and also serves to keep the highback rigidly upright and out of the way while touring !.
IMG_0767_zps46895e9f by Jack Jue Jr, on Flickr

Then simply tighten the front strap over your snowboard boot and you are ready to tour ! Rather then lifting your foot up like a snowshoe , you just lift your heel and glide forward . It is exactly like cross country skiing . The simple strap over the toe serves to keep your forefoot attached to the skiboard and yet allow nice heel lift . The short length and light weight of the RC and the Blunts allow this simple touring system to work well , whereas long skis and split snowboards require much more complicated touring bindings.
IMG_0768_zps09ec5008 by Jack Jue Jr, on Flickr


If you want to add a heel elevator to help with climbing steep slopes , you just need to go to your local hardware store and buy a pair of plastic sewer caps and put it in the back of the binding as needed. Simple but very effective.
IMG_0769_zps1637f7df by Jack Jue Jr, on Flickr
The wings of the new Sbol modified snowboard bindings give excellent lateral support while climbing and side hilling even without the top strap attached and keep the boot aligned in the binding properly when touring .
IMG_0766_zpsbb2a07f0 by Jack Jue Jr, on Flickr
Please note that to tour in the SBOL modified snowboard bindings it is important to have a snowboard boot that either has no side boas or else a side boa like on my boot that is above the wings , This allows the boot to rock back and forth without boa dials hitting the wings. I recommend a snowboard boot with a stiffness rating of 6/10 or above for best results for downhill control .

If you begin to climb more difficult terrain that is icy , it is important to install a crampon receiver. These can be purchased inexpensively . Installation does require drilling two small holes in front of your binding . Doing so will allow you to use a ski crampon to dig into the slopes and give you more traction in difficult climbing .
IMG_0777_zps35ba2f9a by Jack Jue Jr, on Flickr
IMG_0776_zpsd2e9109e by Jack Jue Jr, on Flickr


To go downhill you just remove skins and crampons and heel elevators at the top of the mountain , rotate the top and middle
straps to the front and tighten and you are ready to shred !
IMG_0738_zps2e10783b by Jack Jue Jr, on Flickr

The future is now and backcountry skiboarding has arrived. Combining innovation in use of modified snowboard bindings and coupling these new bindings with magical backcountry boards allows folks a new and exciting way to tour the winter wilderness and drop untouched powder lines whenever the mood arises ! For those of you fortunate to try the new RVL8 touring option , please tell us your stories !
IMG_0742_zps930a65f0 by Jack Jue Jr, on FlickrG2]

IMG_0911_zpscbee8428 by Jack Jue Jr, on Flickr
DSCN0307_zpscn6zokd9 by Jack Jue Jr, on Flickr
ps . edit 11/3/2020
Since the original post . RVL8 came out with Blunt Xl , which gives more float then the the Blunt. Now my favorite skiboards to use in the backcountry with the RVL8 soft boot set up are the RCs and the Blunt XLs
After much experience with drilled crampon receivers . I have given up on that solution for crampons. My skiboards do not have the type of core or thickness to support the drilled screws which can pull out under stress during climbing on firm snow. The best solution for crampons is to use the extra factory inserts on the Rockered Condor and to use a commercially available snowboard splitboard crampon as detailed in the last post on this thread . If you do use skiboards other then the Rockered Condors , I recommend the use of a strap on mini crampon called Skeats .https://forums.skiboardsonline.com/f...ge2#post262606

Here is a link to the Mr Chomps Splitboard crampons that work with the extra inserts on the Rockered Condors. . You need the wide ones
https://www.sparkrandd.com/gear/mr-chomps/

Here is a link to the skins I recommend with the correct attachment hardware for skiboards
https://skiskinsonline.com/shop-bsmp/og-ski-skin/

So you don't have to read through this thread. I have attached the information about the Mr. Chomps crampon used on the Rockered Condor inserts below. The information is also included later in this thread.


Recently I discovered that a snowboard splitboard crampon manufactured by Sparks called " Mr . Chomps" has cut outs that exactly fit the extra inserts on the Rockered Condor . The crampon you need is the " wide " version, not the regular size which is too narrow . This crampon exactly fits the extra inserts and the width of the Rockered Condor and I was eager to get some on snow testing before I ran out of snow . The cut outs in the back of the crampon form a semi circle and the crampon is attached with M6 X 10MM machine screws and fender washers that you can get from the hardware store . The crampon comes with an extra piece that is used on the snowboard which is easily removed and the flat crampon is just laid on the front of the Rockered Condor and the machine screw and fender washers are screwed on with a small phillips screwdriver.
Here is a picture of the crampon on my Rockered Condor with one screw and fender washer attached. You can see how the cut out exactly encircles the insert screw hole on the other side .. The crampon sells for 100 dollars
DSCN0216_zpsa6fb3ikn by Jack Jue Jr, on Flickr
Here is the crampon attached...
DSCN0217_zpsmoc3mryj by Jack Jue Jr, on Flickr

I was a little worried that the attachment would not be secure as the crampon is attached from the back rather then the center , but on steep climbing there were no issues . The crampon attachment was very secure . The crampons performed absolulely superbly with excellent purchase on climbing steep slopes. This a great piece of equipment that pairs wonderfully with the soft touring set up I use on the Rockered Condor .. As I explained earlier in this post this is just a standard Sbol soft boot snowboard binding with the two top straps intertwined and strapped to the rear of the highback and the single foot strap over the front of my snowboard boot , and skins , and crampons if necessary , with a simple plastic sewer cap used as a heel elevator as needed.
This simple set up is absolutely fantastic and unique to skiboarding .

Here I am climbing up the slope ...
DSCN0219_zpsvljyqbxt by Jack Jue Jr, on Flickr

An alternative to traditional ski crampons is a strapon mini crampon called Skeats that can be used with all skiboards.
I recently came across this new product "Skeats- strap on mini crampons".
http://www.skincleats.com/#simplified-ski-crampons

I have used these with a number of different skiboards and they work great , They work better in going straight up the hill vs side traverses where regular ski crampons work better but for most applications I think this will be all the crampon most folks will need.
.

[ysb33r]

Nice Jack, it's close but not quite off the shelf yet. Still requires drilling the board oneself.

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[jjue]

Nice Jack, it's close but not quite off the shelf yet. Still requires drilling the board oneself.

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Yes, Ecr has been talking with me about some ideas he has for a crampon receiver that could be attached to the unused inserts on the RC, which would at least not require drilling the RC...

[Bill]

Yes, Ecr has been talking with me about some ideas he has for a crampon receiver that could be attached to the unused inserts on the RC, which would at least not require drilling the RC...

Jack, it would be so easy to make up a couple of thumb screws that thread right into the two extra inserts, then you'd be drilling holes in the crampon, not the skiboard.

[jjue]

Jack, it would be so easy to make up a couple of thumb screws that thread right into the two extra inserts, then you'd be drilling holes in the crampon, not the skiboard.

Thanks Bill , yes I think that would be a good idea ... B and D ski gear where I order crampons from will drill custom holes if you tell them exactly where you want them ... I looked for metric thumb screws in the hardware store but there are none to buy ... is there an easy way for person to cobble together a metric thumb screw from hardware store parts ? Sure would be nice to get some use out of those unused insert holes on the RC

[Bill]

Thanks Bill , yes I think that would be a good idea ... B and D ski gear where I order crampons from will drill custom holes if you tell them exactly where you want them ... I looked for metric thumb screws in the hardware store but there are none to buy ... is there an easy way for person to cobble together a metric thumb screw from hardware store parts ? Sure would be nice to get some use out of those unused insert holes on the RC

Jack,

It's unlikely M6 thumbscrews would be available anywhere locally, but I'm sure McMaster-Carr has something in their three-foot-thick catalog. I'll investigate and throw something together. If nothing else they wouldn't be that hard to make.

[Bad Wolf]

Jack,

It's unlikely that M6 thumbscrews would be available anywhere locally, but I'm sure McMaster-Carr has something in their three-foot-thick catalog. I'll investigate and throw something together

Ace has a double ended M6 threaded bolts that you can put in the inserts. One end is hexed so you can screw them in with an Allen key. They sell thumb screws, wing nuts and bolt caps that you could use to secure the plate and finish the screw.

[Bill]

Ace has a double ended M6 threaded bolts that you can put in the inserts. One end is hexed so you can screw them in with an Allen key. They sell thumb screws, wing nuts and bolt caps that you could use to secure the plate and finish the screw.

BW, that would be a good solution, no question. One drawback might be the number of small parts to keep track of.

Jack, all the off-the-shelf M6 thumbscrews I found were either crazy-expensive, needed shortening, or both. I went ahead and made up a set from some acetal roundstock with stainless M6 hex-heads broached and pressed in. These should be easy to manipulate with heavy gloves on, and the length takes into account the shallow RC bonus inserts and the thickness of B & D crampons.

I would have mounted them on a set of RC's for demonstration, but my widest B & D crampons are too skinny for the RC's anywhere but dead center. It looks from the picture, though, that you found a pair that works.

I measured the distance between the bonus inserts on the RC's, and they average to be 82mm. There's about 1 1/4" of clearance in front of the softboot riser, so if a guy drilled two 1/4" holes in the crampon 1" up from the rear edge and 41mm either way from center that should work. I'll drop these thumbnuts in the mail tomorrow.

[jjue]

Thanks so much Bill , I will get a pair of my crampons drilled and try the thumbscrews out as soon as we get more snow so I can get out into the backcountry again !

[jjue]

Using front inserts for crampons on the RC

Thanks Bill ! Got your thumb screws , unfortunately the length of the screws was not long enough .. The widest B and D ski gear crampon is 135mm wide , actually 140mm wide , in order to get these crampons to fit in front of my soft boot riser, I need to pound them a bit in the center with a hammer and pound on the sides a bit as well , this causes the crampon to be a bit of a v shape with the center a bit lower then the sides , thus requiring longer screws for the front inserts of the RC. Here is the solution I figured out today . As Bill suggested I drilled 1/4 inch holes in my crampon 41mm to each side of center line , the best location is on a line 1/2 between the front two standard holes on the B and D crampons . I drilled these by hand , a lot of work .. a machine shop would be better , or order the holes pre drilled by B and D ski gear . I inserted M6 machine screws and washers , the washers and the machine screws are kind of held in place by duct tape , so the little parts remain attached to the crampon . In the field I will just use a phillips screw driver to tighten or unloosen the screws to attach and remove the crampons.




pretty quick and not much different then using thumb screws , other then carrying a phillips screwdriver with you .
ps recommend carrying some extra m6 screws and washers in case your fancy duct tape job fails and you lose screws and washers in the field ... very low cost solution and readily available screws and washers in any hardware store . no drilling of the board , and finally makes use of those extra two insert holes on the RC!

ps in the pictures above I am using an Edge snowboard riser rather then the Sbol Missouri Riser, but the Missouri riser although longer than the Edge riser is radiused ( under cut-see pictures earlier in this thread ) and will also allow the crampons to be attached as pictured. I have tested the location of the new drilled holes on the crampon with the Missouri riser and it works fine.

[jjue]

RVL8 Backcountry Kit

I checked with Bill at B and D Ski gear and he will provide super fat crampons drilled with 1/4 inch holes 41mm to each side of center line for $82.95 , you can order the crampons through this web site and specify special order with custom holes ...
http://www.bndskigear.com/fatcrampons.html

[ysb33r]

I checked with Bill at B and D Ski gear and he will provide super fat crampons drilled with 1/4 inch holes 41mm to each side of center line for $82.95 , you can order the crampons through this web site and specify special order with custom holes ...
http://www.bndskigear.com/fatcrampons.html

This is getting really interesting. No need to drill the skiboard!

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[Bill]

I checked with Bill at B and D Ski gear and he will provide super fat crampons drilled with 1/4 inch holes 41mm to each side of center line for $82.95 , you can order the crampons through this web site and specify special order with custom holes ...
http://www.bndskigear.com/fatcrampons.html

This is great news Jack. B & D's crampons are well designed, nicely finished and rugged, top quality in every way. I've got a buddy with a big brake and had thought of making a super-wide pair for demonstration and am glad to see this post before going ahead with that. It would have been way more that $82.95 worth of material and effort for a lesser result ;-)

That's a great deal for a first-rate custom product.

[jjue]

Late season testing -New Crampon for Rockered Condor

Recently I discovered that a snowboard splitboard crampon manufactured by Sparks called " Mr . Chomps" has cut outs that exactly fit the extra inserts on the Rockered Condor . The crampon you need is the " wide " version, not the regular size which is too narrow . This crampon exactly fits the extra inserts and the width of the Rockered Condor and I was eager to get some on snow testing before I ran out of snow . The cut outs in the back of the crampon form a semi circle and the crampon is attached with M6 X 10MM machine screws and fender washers that you can get from the hardware store . The crampon comes with an extra piece that is used on the snowboard which is easily removed and the flat crampon is just laid on the front of the Rockered Condor and the machine screw and fender washers are screwed on with a small phillips screwdriver.
Here is a picture of the crampon on my Rockered Condor with one screw and fender washer attached. You can see how the cut out exactly encircles the insert screw hole on the other side .. The crampon sells for 100 dollars
DSCN0216_zpsa6fb3ikn by Jack Jue Jr, on Flickr
Here is the crampon attached...
DSCN0217_zpsmoc3mryj by Jack Jue Jr, on Flickr

I was a little worried that the attachment would not be secure as the crampon is attached from the back rather then the center , but on steep climbing there were no issues . The crampon attachment was very secure . The crampons performed absolulely superbly with excellent purchase on climbing steep slopes. This a great piece of equipment that pairs wonderfully with the soft touring set up I use on the Rockered Condor .. As I explained earlier in this post this is just a standard Sbol soft boot snowboard binding with the two top straps intertwined and strapped to the rear of the highback and the single foot strap over the front of my snowboard boot , and skins , and crampons if necessary , with a simple plastic sewer cap used as a heel elevator as needed.
This simple set up is absolutely fantastic and unique to skiboarding .

Here I am climbing up the slope ...
DSCN0219_zpsvljyqbxt by Jack Jue Jr, on Flickr

Often in late season trips much of the beginning of the trip is hiking uphill carrying equipment over dirt before you get to the snow . That was the case today . and the Rockered Condor with skins attached fits nicely on my pack for hiking ..
DSCN0215_zps5mwrv3ca by Jack Jue Jr, on Flickr


I had the mountain all to myself today , nice turns in the left over snow from a very sparse season !
DSCN0221_zpscf80opbn by Jack Jue Jr, on Flickr
DSCN0223_zpseyy26of2 by Jack Jue Jr, on Flickr

The ski area is doing some after season lift servicing and has plowed an access road that causes a big drop in the middle of the slope , no problem , just kind of slid off and then climbed up the other side , ha , ha Late season is all about a bit of adventure ..
DSCN0224_zpsazaebl5y by Jack Jue Jr, on Flickr


I love the Rockered Condor in this soft touring mode . I really got enamored with the Blunt Xls this season and used them twice in the backcountry ... but getting back on the RCs was great .. the extra length and the nice rockered tips and tails give extra float and stability in difficult backcountry snow and the provided crampon inserts and now the new crampon system make this rig my favorite backcountry rig ! I really enjoy climbing in snowboard boots which is more enjoyable to me then climbing or skinning in stiff alpine touring boots or ski boots and this whole rig is significantly lighter then my Sherpa/Osprey set ups with Alpine touring bindings and riser which makes me prefer it over those rigs over all . I tell my buddies that I might just be only person on earth using this rig for backcountry touring but it is fantastic and a real unique use of skiboards, and the Sbol snowboard boot binding , and snowboard boots... Really a winner !

[sempai]

What resort were you at?