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Rockered Condor Soft Touring Rig

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  • #31
    New Heel elevator .

    I discovered that the production Rocker binding has been redesigned from the prototype I have. One big difference is that the highback is set back further on the binding plate , leaving a larger gap between the end of the binding plate and the highback . My simple 2 inch round pvc pipe heel elevator falls through this gap.


    A trip to the local hardware store provided me with the perfect solution . In the plumbing section you can find 4 inch x 1 3/4 inch ABS plastic caps .


    These caps are carried in your pack and popped into the rear of the binding when you need a heel elevator . Fits perfectly .

    Here is a picture of how the cap sits in the back and elevates the heel of the boot.


    ps , you will notice an aftermarket jam nut assembly on each binding screw . This binding attachment is discused on the previous page ,
    Boards :
    Spliffs
    DLPs
    Condors
    Slingshots
    Sherpa

    Boot:
    K2 BFC 100

    Bindings:
    Zero Pro Non release Binding
    Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
    Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
    Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

    Comment


    • #32
      Central Riser Necessary

      In further testing of the production Rocker Binding system for backcountry touring I have found that the addition of a central riser of some sort is necessary to prevent screw loosening . Repetitive upward stress on the unsupported screws of the production binding with climbing causes the screws to twist and loosen . This is a different stress on the screws then occurs with regular downhill use and is unique to the use of the binding for touring where the front strap is attached across the front of your boot and there is an upward and often twisting stress on the binding with each step. The bottom jam nut solution that I presented earlier in this thread is not enough to prevent screw loosening and a central puck is necessary.
      Most folks have found the production binding to be fine as is without screw loosening issues when used purely as a downhill binding but I think a central puck is necessary for those who want to use this binding for backcountry touring. My hope is that a central puck will be available for purchase as an aftermarket binding accessory and supplied with future versions of the Rocker Binding and I have sent my test findings to Jake at Rocker Binding.
      Until a commercial central puck is available , I recommend one of two modifications of the current Rocker binding for those wishing to tour with their Rocker Binding. One is to remove the rubber risers supplied with the Rocker Binding ( this is easily done by lifting up the foam pad on the binding plate and unscrewing the screw that holds the Rubber risers to the binding plate ) and purchasing the Edge Snowboard Riser and using that instead of the rubber bumpers as I described at the beginning of this thread . Remember that the Edge Snowboard Riser is wide and can only be used with the Condor Skiboard and not with narrower skiboards.
      Here is a picture of the Edge Snowboard Riser


      Here is how the binding will look on the board with the standard production rubber foot risers removed and the binding attached to the skiboard via the Edge Snowboard riser .


      The other solution is to buy an inexpensive regulation size ice hockey puck and drill 4 holes in it in the 4x4 pattern and use that as a central puck . Because the ice hockey puck is just a bit too tall some way of raising the rubber foot risers is necessary . This can be done by putting some rubber sheeting under the rubber foot risers or unscrewing the rubber foot risers and using a washer between the rubber risers and the binding plate. I plan to put together a Do your own hockey puck riser tutorial later this summer . Thanks to Bill on the forum , I was supplied a nice custom hockey puck to use which works fine as is but Bill modifed this hockey puck by shaving it down a couple of mm with machine tools that most folks might not have . You will also see that he cut out a central hole with a drill press to make the puck lighter . This adds to the complexity of this do your own solution and is not necessary for functionality. Bill did explain to me how to cut out a central hole on my own with simple tools and without a drill press and hopefully I will include that on my Do your own tutorial later this summer.

      Here are some pictures of the hockey puck riser in use .






      edited 7/23/2012
      The Hockey puck type central riser is now available as an after market accessory direct from Rocker binding and I highly recommend getting it if you are going to use your Rocker binding in the backcountry.
      http://www.rockerbinding.com/Central_Riser.html
      Boards :
      Spliffs
      DLPs
      Condors
      Slingshots
      Sherpa

      Boot:
      K2 BFC 100

      Bindings:
      Zero Pro Non release Binding
      Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
      Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
      Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

      Comment


      • #33
        Jack, the rocker binding appears to be much narrower than common off-the-shelf snowboard bindings. On the Condor, wide as it is, would it be possible to mount direct, without any riser? Or maybe just a simple 1/4" rubber pad? Just thinking out loud here ;-)

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Bill View Post
          Jack, the rocker binding appears to be much narrower than common off-the-shelf snowboard bindings. On the Condor, wide as it is, would it be possible to mount direct, without any riser? Or maybe just a simple 1/4" rubber pad? Just thinking out loud here ;-)
          Good question Bill and the answer really goes to the unique nature of using the Rocker binding for touring .
          Basically what we are doing is simulating the way a traditional snowshoe works . In traditional snowshoes there is a hole in the deck and the front of your boot rotates over a wooden bar on the deck into the hole and below the deck ,like in this picture


          The use of a riser allows the boot attached by the single strap to rotate over the front lip of the binding plate and go below the level of the binding plate just like a traditional snowshoe allows , this allows a much freer motion to walking then if the binding was direct mounted .


          I also found that direct mounting snowboard boot bindings on the Condor does not give me as much leverage over the edge on icy firm snow that I want and a riser really is necessary with soft boot bindings to get good edge control in icier terrrain on descent and on climbing traverses.
          Boards :
          Spliffs
          DLPs
          Condors
          Slingshots
          Sherpa

          Boot:
          K2 BFC 100

          Bindings:
          Zero Pro Non release Binding
          Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
          Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
          Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

          Comment


          • #35
            Reflections on this Season



            I have spent this whole season touring exclusively on the Rockered Condor with Rocker Binding and can rightly say that my backcountry riding will never be the same . I have spent many years on all kinds of backcountry gear but this current rig tops the cake in terms of the whole combination of ease of use , comfort , and control both on the up and on the down . It really combines the best of all worlds. There is the comfort of climbing in comfortable soft snowboard boots center mounted on a snowshoe like skiboard. The Rockered nature of the board allows the tip and tail to be out of the way and the straighter edge of the middle portion of the skiboard to use for edging and climbing traverses. Yet on the descent those Rockered tips engage and you are floated high in the backcountry snow . Downhill control with the Rocker binding is akin to a hardboot set up but you get to climb in soft boots ! It is great fun to climb easier then long skis and split snowboards and yet descend with speed and control akin to the guys on the long planks and even having an edge in funky difficult snow . This rig is unique to skiboarding and capitalizes on the special features of skiboarding that makes it the perfect backcountry choice.
            Boards :
            Spliffs
            DLPs
            Condors
            Slingshots
            Sherpa

            Boot:
            K2 BFC 100

            Bindings:
            Zero Pro Non release Binding
            Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
            Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
            Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

            Comment


            • #36
              First Paged edited.

              Today I edited the first page of this thread to reflect my findings after one season of testing and included pictures and videos of the rig in action this season .(Thanks G for making the thread a sticky!) With the Rockered Condor and the 2012-2013 Rockerbinding we have a commercially available downhill skiboard rig that does double duty out of the box as a backcountry touring capable rig. It is a hugely competent backcountry rig that is unique to skiboarding and capitalizes on the special features of skiboarding to allow the rider to climb in soft boots with a snowshoe like compact high flotation device and yet descend smoothly with excellent control and speed in all kinds of backcountry snow conditions including deep powder. It allows skiboarders to access the backcountry on unique equipment that allows them to tour easily and perform on par with skiers and snowboarders . This was a real special season for me . It has really shown me how innovative and special our sport has become. Resort or backcountry I use the same equipment . Comfortable boots, compact snowshoe like climbing skiboards, high performance deep pow skiboards, control on gnarly icy slopes -One rig does it all in style . Yes , Big smiles for me all around !!
              http://www.skiboardsonline.com/forum...ad.php?t=12186

              2012-2013 Rockerbinding on 2012 Rockered Condor with Crampon attachment installed.
              Boards :
              Spliffs
              DLPs
              Condors
              Slingshots
              Sherpa

              Boot:
              K2 BFC 100

              Bindings:
              Zero Pro Non release Binding
              Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
              Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
              Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

              Comment


              • #37
                Proper skiinning technique on Rocker Binding

                Walking and climbing with the Soft touring rig with the Rocker binding is pretty simple but there is some technique to do it well . After a season on the Rocker binding and starting up the new season touring ... I wanted to give some tips on skinning techniques with the Rocker binding . Unlike a snowshoe it is important not to lift up the skiboard ,... set up the front strap so your boot is deliberately overhanging the front of the binding , you leave the front strap fairly loose across the top of the boot, then you just rock forward a bit with the toes of your snowboard boot going over the front edge of the binding plate and slide your skiboard forward . You do not need to lift your heel real high , in fact if you lift your heel real high you will tend to twist the boot sideways on climbing and will run the heels over the side walls of the rocker binding .Unlike with a snowshoe , in touring with the Rocker binding you are attached only by a single front strap and not straps all the way around the boot and rely on the high sidewalls and the highback of the Rocker binding to keep your boot centered .) Touring with the Rocker binding , is more like an efficient shuffle and then slide,keeping the heel not too high so the sidewalls of the rocker binding keep the boot centered. You can go pretty fast but it is really all about a shuffle and gliding forward motion on the skins. The skins are giving you traction but allowing you to slide forwards at the same time so that you do not have to lift up your skiboard and step forward like you would have to do on a snowshoe which cannot glide across the snow.
                On difficult climbing on icy slopes especially with traversing , I just tighten the front strap more so it keeps my foot down and limits the amount I can bring my heel up to prevent torqueing my boot sideways. In non technical climbing and on the flats , I leave the front strap pretty loose as it allows more freedom of motion.
                watch the videos with special attention to how I am walking



                Boards :
                Spliffs
                DLPs
                Condors
                Slingshots
                Sherpa

                Boot:
                K2 BFC 100

                Bindings:
                Zero Pro Non release Binding
                Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
                Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

                Comment


                • #38
                  Field repair Rocker Binding

                  One of the cool things about the Rocker binding is that it is completely field rebuildable should there be a binding failure in the backcountry .
                  I have torture tested the system over a couple of seasons and I wanted to demonstrate some possible binding failures and simple solutions.

                  First here is the binding repair kit I carry in my pack ... it includes a allen wrench, flat head screw driver , phillips size 2 screwdriver , a crescent wrench , duct tape , rubber straps , extra screws and nuts , extra rubber tips for skins, and extra rubber ski baskets for poles. Also some paraffin wax for ski bases and to help skins glide better.



                  I also carry an extra snowboard binding strap and buckle combo... I have some old parts scrounged from left over snowboard bindings that I have in the garage .but you can buy this nice set for 20 bucks online that is great ..


                  Let us go through a couple of binding issues I have had and their solution . on the Rocker binding the binding buckle straps are held in place with a single screw . It is essential before trips that you make sure these screws are tight . When used for climbing , the front strap across the toe especially is used a lot and the screw can work loose. I forgot to tighten screws on one trip and the screw popped off leaving me with this ...


                  It s a simple matter if the piece pops off in the snow and you can find it ... but not so simple if you can't locate it ..


                  Luckily , I anticipated this possible issue and carry screws and nuts and washers to allow me to quickly reattach the strap even without the part ..


                  Once I somehow caught the back strap of the top binding strap with a skiboard edge while climbing and tore off the top buckle binding strap ...


                  Having brought a spare buckle strap , I just quickly attached it with the exisiting screws and was on my way in no time ..


                  I use duct tape and rubber straps if my skins lose stickness and don't stick well to the bottom of the bases , this happens especially if you happen to drop the skins in the snow ..
                  Boards :
                  Spliffs
                  DLPs
                  Condors
                  Slingshots
                  Sherpa

                  Boot:
                  K2 BFC 100

                  Bindings:
                  Zero Pro Non release Binding
                  Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                  Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
                  Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    jjue, you are the MacGyver of the skiboarding world.

                    Skiboards:
                    2013 Spruce Sherpas w/Tyrolia Peak 11s
                    2015 RVL8 Blunt XLs w/Tyrolia Attack 13s
                    2018 Spruce Crossbows w/Tyrolia Peak 11s
                    2017 RVL8 Sticky Icky Ickys w/Tyrolia SX 10s


                    Boots:
                    Salomon X-Pro 80

                    Past boards: Salomon Snowblades, Line MNPs 89 & 98 cm, Five-Os, Bullets, Jedis, Spruce 120s, LE 125s, Ospreys
                    Summit 110s, Nomads, Jades, RVL8 ALPs, BWPs, KTPs, Tanshos, Rockets, DLPs, Blunts, Condors, RCs, Revolts, Spliffs

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Jack,

                      You seem like the type that's always prepared. I bet your ready to leave on a trip the night before you go. All your stuff packed and the car loaded up.

                      I'm the same way, but I'm always stuck waiting for the little woman. Maybe you have some advise on how to get her to be prepared like I am:-)


                      Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
                      33 down, 12 to go!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Zach View Post
                        Jack,

                        You seem like the type that's always prepared. I bet your ready to leave on a trip the night before you go. All your stuff packed and the car loaded up.

                        I'm the same way, but I'm always stuck waiting for the little woman. Maybe you have some advise on how to get her to be prepared like I am:-)


                        Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
                        If you meet my wife , please don't tell her my secret ... pssst ... I tell her we are leaving at 600am and when we finally get around to leaving around 700am ( which is the time I really wanted to leave) .. she says she is sorry and compliments me on my patience.!
                        Boards :
                        Spliffs
                        DLPs
                        Condors
                        Slingshots
                        Sherpa

                        Boot:
                        K2 BFC 100

                        Bindings:
                        Zero Pro Non release Binding
                        Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                        Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
                        Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          I do the same thing. She gets mad at me when we show up to a place 15 minutes before we are supposed to be there ( that's on time if you ask me though)


                          Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
                          33 down, 12 to go!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Test Drive of Production RC Touring Rig

                            This last weekend , Andrei , who has never ridden on the RC and has never climbed on skis or skiboards in the backcountry test climbed a production RC set up with a production Rocker binding . Andrei is an experienced snowshoer, and snowboarder but has only been on skis 7 times , on the Sherpa once at the resort and never on the RC. It was a great test to see if a rig I designed to work for me would work for someone entirely new to the rig and to backcountry skiboarding or skiing. I am happy to report that the rig performed great and Andrei adapted to how to climb in it very rapdily and climbed a difficult steep mountain like a pro using ski crampons and skins for the first time . We found one problem with the rig and I was able to find a simple solution.
                            Here is Andrei near the summit . Full trip report with video here.



                            The problem we found is that the binding plate of the production Rocker binding is shorter in the rear then on the prototype Rocker binding and even though I am using a 4 inch wide plastic plumbing cap as a heel elevator , on hiking , this cap tends to work it self through the gap between the highback and binding plate like this ...Running the highback at my preferred 10 degree fixed forward lean also has widened the gap in the back making slipping of the plumbing cap heel elevator more of a problem .


                            So it was back to the local hardware store to search for a solution. Wow , I was able to find a very simple and practical solution !
                            This is a simple plumbing part that is meant to be dropped into a standard 4 inch pvc pipe to act as a grate :


                            It has a flange for the grate that is wider then the 4 inch diameter base and is just perfect to fit in in the back of the Rocker binding as a heel elevator ... the wider top flange prevents the part from slipping out and it is very light weight but seems sturdy enough to act as a fine heel elevator ..




                            The super cool design of the production Rockered Condor and Rocker binding has enabled me to work out a touring rig that involves absolutely no custom parts . RC and Rockerbinding are bought from SBOL .Crampon receivers are bought from Voile , Crampons from B and D skigear , Skins from Climbing skins direct , and heel elevators from Lowe's Hardware store .. !! We have a totally unique lightweight , easy to use , backcountry rig that is easy for anyone to put together that is completely unique to the sport of Skiboarding and performs flawlessly in the backcountry on par with long skis or snowboards .
                            Boards :
                            Spliffs
                            DLPs
                            Condors
                            Slingshots
                            Sherpa

                            Boot:
                            K2 BFC 100

                            Bindings:
                            Zero Pro Non release Binding
                            Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                            Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
                            Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by sempai View Post
                              jjue, you are the MacGyver of the skiboarding world.
                              Ditto! Pretty cool creating a very good backcountry rig like you have.
                              In pursuit of Peace, Harmony and Flow.....
                              Think Like a Mountain

                              Boards ridden, some owned: Sherpas, Spruce 120 "STS", Blunts, DS110 custom prototypes, Rockered Condors, Revolts, DLPs, Summit Custom 110s, Summit Marauders, Head 94s, Raptor prototypes, Osprey prototypes.

                              Comment

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