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Rockered Condor Soft Touring Rig

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  • #16
    Really nice backcountry setup . I'm envious.
    Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

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    • #17
      Field Test

      Nice opportunity to test the Rockerbinding touring set up in pow conditions today
      http://www.skiboardsonline.com/forum...php?t=12212#en

      The rig performed great over all .. I found climbing with a single strap easy. The heel elevator doesn't really add anything and gets in the way .. One problem with this set up , is that in breaking trail in deep snow you tend to collect a lot of snow in the back of the binding .. .this causes you to have an automatic heel elevator .. this is not bad if you are climbing up hill but gets irritating if you are on the flats . The snow can be removed by getting out of the binding if it gets too bad ..
      I really do not think this is a deal killer for this binding and if you are careful in deep snow when breaking trail to not lift you heel up too much but just kind of slide the skiboard forward and stomp down you can keep snow build up to a minimum . Climbing without a heel elevator is not bad with snowboard boots because they are so flexible .. .and because you are center mount on a short 110 snowshoe like skiboard .. kind of exactly llke climbing on snowshoes without heel elevators ..
      I did not slip backwards following skier packed trails up hill and had good grip climbing with the Rockered Condors with climbing skins . The Rockered Condor breaks trails much , much easier then traditional skiboards like the Sherpa or the regular condor with the same surface area because the rockered tips do not tend to submarine into the snow when climbing up hill but float to the surface angled up this really helps with breaking trail . The climbing motion with snowboard boots is much more natural then climbing with a touring binding with ski boots and feels like snowshoeing .
      I did not need the crampons today , so did not try them out .. Overall I am very stoked on this system ... It is super light weight which is great ..

      Here is a picture of the snow buildup underfoot I am talking about ..
      Boards :
      Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
      Boots
      K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
      Bindings:
      Zero Pro Non release Binding
      Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
      Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
      Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
      Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

      Comment


      • #18
        New Heel Elevator design

        After field testing I came up with a new heel elevator design ... I tried it today climbing up grassy hills near my home and it seems to work fine and is simple... look forward to on snow testing ..

        you go to local hardware store and have them cut 2 inch tall sections of 2 inch diameter pvc pipe carry these in a pocket while touring ...


        make sure when you set up your binding for touring that your toe is a bit more forward in the toe strap before you tighten the front toe strap . .this insures some clearance behind the heel of your boot so you are not colliding with the rear high back ..


        When a heel elevator is needed just rock forward with your foot in the binding and slip the pvc pipe behind your heel . . there is just enough clearance to do this


        once the pvc pipe is in place it provides a nice 2 inch of heel lift . .it is held in place from slipping out the back by the high back .. and does not slip much side to side or forward while touring because of the non slip foam padding provided by Rockerbinding ... I tried to make it slip out or move about climbing up grassy hills this morning and it seemed to stay in place.... to remove just reverse the procedure of putting the piece of pipe in place , no need to undo front strap
        Boards :
        Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
        Boots
        K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
        Bindings:
        Zero Pro Non release Binding
        Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
        Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
        Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
        Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

        Comment


        • #19
          Bottom Line ...

          For those following this thread about a soft boot touring system using the Rockerbinding , I want to emphasize a few points .

          1/ The Rocker Softboot skiboard binding whether used with the Revel8 Riser system , the Edge riser system , or a home made riser system has all the necessary equipment to provide a touring function all by itself ! If you have the Revel8 Riser system you can use this touring system on any insert equipped skiboard.. not just the Condor . The ONLY thing that is required is a pair of climbing skins . This is a huge innovation. Standard non release skiboard bindings do not allow a touring function without add on attachments. .This binding will accept any soft boot ... (snowboard boot , mountaineering boot etc) Downhill control will be improved with stiffer soft boots but they are not necessary .

          2/ If a skiboarder who has the Rockerbinding wants to improve touring function in firm snow and does not want to install the front crampon system I have installed on my Condors ,it is a simple matter of purchasing and carrying a pair of lightweight Vert snowshoes for 75 dollars (which is actually less then the cost of the crampons and crampon attachments ) !
          Boards :
          Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
          Boots
          K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
          Bindings:
          Zero Pro Non release Binding
          Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
          Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
          Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
          Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

          Comment


          • #20
            Great day out climbing up Sugar bowl to ride the new pow .
            Here is my buddy Billy who is sporting a new handle bar moustache !

            Here is Billy heading up the skin track ... a split boarder had been there before us and broke trail all the way to the top of Mt. Lincoln and we had an easy time following his nice track ..

            Here is a pic of yours truly ... a bit cold but happy !

            The Rocker binding rig did great as a touring rig today on my Rockered Condor .. ... the simple plastic pipe heel elevators worked great .. the snow build up underfoot was no real issue. it was there but the whole set up is so light anyway that I don't notice the small extra weight .. .. had a great time ! Love climbing in snowboard boots !!!

            On descent in pow I found that I like to keep the top shin strap pretty loose where as at the ski resort on firm snow I like it nice and tight . ... keeping the top shin strap loose allows me more flex in my boot and more feel for terrain variations in pow and soft snow and a rigid binding is not really necessary ... Jake has pointed this out on his web site about the rocker binding ....
            "The highback and shin strap are so well designed that they can provide too much support. This might be a new and strange experience since no other binding has even been this good. With too much support, there is no “dead zone” when you're riding where your're not on edge and you can just relax. If you're getting too much support out of your binding, there is a solution... loosen up that shin strap a little. " I agree !
            Boards :
            Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
            Boots
            K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
            Bindings:
            Zero Pro Non release Binding
            Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
            Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
            Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
            Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

            Comment


            • #21
              Emergency Binding Repair

              One of the nice features of the Rocker Binding is that it has a built in redundancy in case of strap breakage in the backcountry . Let us assume you break a toe strap , you can easily replace it by transferring the top shin strap and using it as a toe strap ... You can just ride with two straps , or better yet ... I think I will carry a simple power strap to use as a top strap in case the top shin strap is pressed into service as a replacement strap. Planning for binding field repair is an important part of backcountry skiboarding whatever binding you use and it is nice that the Rocker binding has this built in redundancy . ( I carry a socket screw driver and a adjustable wrench to tighten or loosen screws on the binding )
              Boards :
              Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
              Boots
              K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
              Bindings:
              Zero Pro Non release Binding
              Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
              Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
              Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
              Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

              Comment


              • #22
                Telemark option with the Rocker binding !

                On my last backcountry trip .. I also found that I can telemark my Rockered condors. with this rig . I just use the front strap on the Rocker binding and can easily make free heel downhill telemark turns , the Rockered front tip on the new Condors helps to prevent me diving the tips while making telemark turns.. ... LOL, I actually started out my backcountry skiboarding career as a telemark skiboarder and now I have a binding that lets me do everything , locked and loaded like an alpine hardboot set up .. or free heel like a telemarker all with a nice soft snowboard boot , sweet !
                Boards :
                Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
                Boots
                K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
                Bindings:
                Zero Pro Non release Binding
                Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
                Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
                Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

                Comment


                • #23
                  High performance version of Yupi Ski Shoe ..

                  In many ways I think the Soft boot touring rig for the Rockered Condor is a high performance version of the Yupi ski shoe ... this was a short skiboard with imbedded skin and a free heel strap binding for soft boots. .. The Rocker binding set up allows a much stronger downhill binding when used making traditional poleless skiboard turns and yet still allows free heel telemark turns if you just use the toe strap and the Condor has a huge increase in float for both climbing and descent then the 75cm long Yupi ski shoe .... The Yupi ski shoe is no longer manufactured ... but here is a little video the company made ... it gives you a bit of taste of what I am feeling about the new soft touring rig on the Rockered Condor ...
                  Boards :
                  Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
                  Boots
                  K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
                  Bindings:
                  Zero Pro Non release Binding
                  Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                  Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
                  Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
                  Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Crampon attachment improvement

                    Bill Bollinger who sells the crampons I use at B and D Ski gear ... suggested an improvement to my crampon attachment .. he suggested some sort of backing between the wingnut and the crampon to distribute the downward force on the crampon more then a wingut alone .. I found some inexpensive circular 2 inch washers at the hardware store that fits the biill ..
                    Here is the crampon attached ..


                    Here is the washer and wingnut beside the Voile crampon stud ..


                    Here is the washer and wingnut secure on the stud when the crampon is not in use
                    Boards :
                    Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
                    Boots
                    K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
                    Bindings:
                    Zero Pro Non release Binding
                    Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                    Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
                    Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
                    Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Leashes

                      I do not use leashes at the ski area with the Rocker Binding . I think it is kind of redundant with three straps holding your boot to the binding ... no one has ever bothered me about it at any ski area I go to .. I do recommend using a leash when touring with the single strap , however, to avoid losing your skiboard should the the single strap break or the boot come loose from the strap during climbing .. I will just add the leash when I use the rig for backcountry touring and remove the leash at ski areas .. In the backcountry during descent , I will attach the leash to my boot as well just to get it out of the way ...

                      Here is pic of a simple leash witth the boot in touring mode with a single strap .. (heel elevator is being used in this picture)
                      Boards :
                      Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
                      Boots
                      K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
                      Bindings:
                      Zero Pro Non release Binding
                      Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                      Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
                      Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
                      Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I am actually kinda surprised. They make snowboarders wear them at a lot of the ski areas around here, and they would have to have both bindings break for it to matter.
                        I do it because I can.
                        I can because I want to.
                        I want to because you said I couldn't.

                        "The butterflies in my stomach have flown up through my throat and learned to love the open air." - World/Inferno

                        Spruce Sherpas with Prime Pros
                        '08 KTPs

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Field test .....

                          Another nice day out today field testing the backcountry Soft touring rig ...
                          one issue with this rig is that if you lift your heel too much , you will tend to angle a bit and hit the side walls of the Rocker binding stepping down .. the way around this is to concentrate on tipping your foot over the edge of the Rocker binding base plate lift the heel just a little and then step down and slide the skiboard forward .. this is a standard cross country type shuffling stride and works great ...

                          I tried out the crampon set up and it worked perfectly allowing to climb steep icy slopes and confidently traversing on steep firm slopes as well ...

                          using a leash is very useful and keeps the skiboards from getting away from you as you step out of the binding and change over to crampons , put on skins etc ..

                          for touring I keep the front strap very loose ... climbing steeper technical slopes .. i tighten the strap down more ..

                          heel elevator works great .. but is much less necessary then with hard boots.. because the snowboard boot is so flexible it is easy climbing up slopes without a heel elevator ... i use the heel elevator only if there is a sustained steep climb ... .

                          I worked out a new way of descending with my climbing poles described in this post ..
                          http://www.skiboardsonline.com/forum...php?t=12450#en

                          Overall this is a fantastic touring set up and is my touring set up of choice... going down I have great control in my Rocker binding with all the straps tightened up ...

                          Ps . the new Rockerbinding with integrated riser should work similarly for touring as my set up with the edge riser...
                          Boards :
                          Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
                          Boots
                          K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
                          Bindings:
                          Zero Pro Non release Binding
                          Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                          Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
                          Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
                          Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            More testing .....

                            The Rockered Condor/Rocker binding soft touring rig continues to amaze me in it's backcountry prowness both on the up and the down . What we have is the first commercially available unique skiboard solution to backcountry touring . There is nothing like this set up in the ski world, or snowboard world ... The rig capitalizes on the strength of new skiboard technology and the new soft boot binding technology . It allows the skiboarder to climb in soft boots like a snowshoer with a wonderful gliding snowshoe , that is way more efficient then any snowshoe and way lighter then any ski or snowboard set up and yet descend in all manner of conditions with control and speed similar to a long ski or snowboard or better ! That is revolutionary in my book !

                            Here I am climbing in the backcountry . The top two straps are buckled and pivoted to the rear and out of the way . Basically I am on a snowshoe with climbing skins with a single leather strap over the top of my soft boot . Two discoveries this weekend ... One is that a heel elevator is much less important for this set up then any set up with rigid boots. Think of how you climb uphill in leather hiking boots or snowshoe up hill (for those with some snowshoe experience ) . Your forefoot flexes and you walk uphill on the ball of your foot and raising your heel . This is very natural and easy to do with flexible snowboard boots and a single leather strap across your forefoot . In a hardboot , even modern bellows equipped telemark boots , there is not enough flex for you to climb comfortably like you would in hiking boots or on a snowshoe with a soft boot . It is very helpful to have a heel elevator to support your heels on the incline with rigid boots and much less important with flexible soft boots and a strap binding .


                            The other thing I discovered is that the Rockered Condor with a Rocker binding is much easier to control on traversing on steep slopes then my traditional Condor with a BTK touring rig and hard boots and makes ski crampons much less important . The Condor has a short length with a very steep side cut .. because of this on firmish snow with a traditional Condor on a climbing traverse you are basically edging with your tips and tails which are working to prevent you from getting the important middle section edged into the snow . With the Rockered Condor the rockered tips and tails are out of the way and you are edging with the short straighter edge directly under your boot . Also with the Rocker binding it is easy to just rachet down the front strap so you get minimal heel lift on a traverse , this lets you control the edge of your skiboard edging up against the snow much better then with a fully free heel set up like with a the BTK free heel design . The high rigid metal side walls of the Rocker binding and the rigid highback prevent your boot from torqueing out and tightening the front strap down keeps your forefoot right down on the binding base . Nice !




                            So what I am saying is that with a Rockered Condor with a Rockerbinding and a pair of skins , you have a wonderful complete touring set up . No need for ski crampons or a heel elevator in the vast majority of conditions . For the last few seasons , I and others have worked hard to come up with a touring solution that was commercially available for skiboarders . With the Rockered Condor and the Rockerbinding , that touring solution is finally available . What is so cool , is that a binding and skiboard that were developed for ski resort use , can be pressed into service for backcountry use without ANY other modification . All you need to buy is a pair of skins and collapsible poles and you are good to go ! ( ps. The current commercially available Rocker Binding includes it's own light weight riser which does not extend beyond the binding lip and obviates the need for the after market Edge riser which I am using with my Rocker Binding )

                            Boards :
                            Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
                            Boots
                            K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
                            Bindings:
                            Zero Pro Non release Binding
                            Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                            Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
                            Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
                            Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Production Rocker Binding Touring Rig

                              Today , I went on my first tour with the 2012 production Rocker binding. Here is a side view of the new 2012 Rocker Binding with integral rubber risers in touring mode. The set up works great . Some snow gets under the binding and around the screws on climbing in pow but it is not noticeable weight wise. My crampon set up works fine (drilled a new hole in the crampon to accomodate the position of the Rocker Binding rubber risers) . I am really stoked that we skiboarders now have a unique production Skiboard binding that has a BUILT IN touring capability . The crampons and crampon receiver is an optional add on . The Rocker Binding by itself on any 4x4 insert skiboard with a pair of climbing skins , immediately turns that skiboard into a climbing , touring capable skiboard with no additional parts to buy ! Going downhill involves just ripping off the skins and moving the upper and middle straps to the front , strapping in and ripping !
                              Boards :
                              Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
                              Boots
                              K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
                              Bindings:
                              Zero Pro Non release Binding
                              Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                              Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
                              Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
                              Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Fine Tuning the Production Rocker Binding Touring Set up .: Jam Nut Assembly .

                                I have had more time now on the production Rocker binding on touring mode and have made a few modifications on the binding set up that I wanted to discuss. First climbing with the Rocker binding puts a lot of stress on the 4 unsupported binding screws. There is an upward pull on the front binding strap with each step which causes the screws to loosen . This does not occur when I use the Rocker Binding with a standard riser . I contacted Slow and Bill who are my forum engineering gurus in discussing soft boot bindings and they came up with a nice and simple way of preventing my screw loosening on the production binding.. The supplied binding screw is threaded through the supplied washer and then through the binding base and an M6 nut is rotated on each screw.

                                Over each binding hole is placed a flat 1/4 washer and on top of that a 1/4 lock washer .
                                The binding screws are then dropped through the lock washer , flat washers and into the insert hole and tightened as usual . Then the nut on the screw is rotated down and snugged against the lock washer and flat washer.Make sure you hold the hex bolt at the top and prevent it from rotating as you tighten the nut down. Care is taken to not overtighten the nut with the crescent wrench to avoid exerting excessive stress on the binding insert and damaging it or pulling it out of the skiboard. "Once the lockwasher is compressed fully, just a snug...1/8 turn or so ought to be good, approximately the same torque you could apply with a screwdriver "

                                The final assembly looks like this


                                This is easy to do and easy to transfer the bindings to another skiboard .
                                Here is a nice diagram from Slow that shows the assembly completed. .


                                I shared this work around with Jake at Rocker Binding and he felt that this should prevent the screws from backing out with touring and prevent screws from bottoming out on descent.

                                Thanks much , Slow and Bill for helping me out and coming up with this simple solution .
                                Boards :
                                Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
                                Boots
                                K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
                                Bindings:
                                Zero Pro Non release Binding
                                Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                                Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
                                Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
                                Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

                                Comment

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