75cm Skiboards, Mountaineering Boots, Snowshoes - The New Backcountry Kit !!!

[jjue]

Recently I received a fascinating email from a snowshoer who was interested in using a winter mountaineering boot in a snowshoe and then to descend in the same mountaineering boot on a 75cm Revel8 Bantam skiboard with a Revel8 Receptor binding . He was looking for advice on boots .
Currently snowshoers or winter hikers , climb up the hill and rather than walk back down , can attempt to "boot glissade" or descend on the heels of their boots down snow fields .
Here is a video of a guy who is pretty good at it ...

The idea is that wouldn't it be cool to carry a lightweight short skiboard that you could attach to your boot to make the descent easier and more fun then just sliding on your boots.
Actually , this is not a new idea but a rather old one . For many years in the ALPs folks have been using short "figls" 65cm 100mm wide proto skiboards to descend glacier fields in the spring with their mountaineering boots. Lowell Skoog in Washington was a pioneer of this idea ,

here is a picture of his set up ..



here is what he said in 1991
Figl is a contraction of "firn gleiter." (Firn is a German word for spring snow. Gleiter means glider.) Traditional firn gliders were made of wood 100-120 cm in length. Figls are about 65cm long and 10cm wide, with fiberglass and aluminum construction, sintered bases, and steel edges--just like modern racing skis. The author bought some figls during a ski trip to Europe and describes using them on Northwest snow climbs, including Wedge and Weart Mountains in B.C. and Liberty Ridge on Mt Rainier (descending the Emmons Glacier). In the U.S., figls are available from Atomic, Kastle, and Kneissl (the Big Foot). Figls are best in spring snow and they work for descents only. "They add a bit of whimsy to any trip. [...] As a snowboarder said when we got off one of the Stevens Pass lifts this winter, 'Hey dude, those skis are from another dimension.'"


So what is a modern Figl , mountaineering boot set up like . I don't have a Bantam but I do have a Canon Easy Rider 75cm skiboard that is similar in dimensions to the Revel8 Bantam .

Here is my 75cm skiboard set up with a Receptor binding set up to allow maximum set back .


Today I took this skiboard to REI and tried a on a couple of winter mountaineering boots and snapped into the Receptor binding attached to the skiboard. . You need a stiff soled boot with ledges in front and back that are "automatic crampon compatible" . Automatic boot crampons are actually the reverse of a skiboard binding set up with a lever in the back and a bale in the front .
Here is a picture of a boot crampon


All the boots I could find that have a automatic crampon compatible sole fit in the Receptor binding .
These are the boots I found today at the store . The first is the Lowa gtx extreme mountaineering boot .


The second was a somewhat stiffer but heavier Asolo Plastic mountaineering boot



Basically both of these boots have a stiff sole but flexible ankle , not much ankle stability compared to a regular skiboot .. .but I think will be perfectly servicable driving a 75cm skiboard from the rear in soft snow .

I do not have these boots at home .. but I do have a leather cross country ski boot in which I have amputated the duckbill and it is very similar to these mountaineering boots , although a bit lighter and less stiff then those boots I showed above ..

Here is my cross country boot in the snowshoe for ascent and locked into the Receptor binding for descent on my Canon 75cm skiboard.


Here is a side view ..



I think the person I was emailing eventually ended up buying the Lowa Winter mountaineering boot , Revel8 Bantams and Receptor bindings. He will climb on the snowshoes and glissade down on his Bantams with the soft winter mountaineering boot ! Hopefully he will post here about his adventures !

[valmorel]

Jack... Guess the binding set-up on the Atomics at the top of the thread weighs next to nothing Similar to BigFoots I think.

[jjue]

Jack... Guess the binding set-up on the Atomics at the top of the thread weighs next to nothing Similar to BigFoots I think.

yeah , Valmorel, i guess the Bantam / Receptor set up could be considered the Bigfoot or Atomic firnglider on steroids ... a bit heavier but better performance . weight of the Bantam /receptor is 2.5 lbs for pair of boards and 2.9 lbs for binding total 5.4 lbs . not bad for carrying about on your pack .

[ekraft]

Hello All, I am the snowshoer Jack references above, and as you may have guessed he is invaluable in making some gear selections. My plan is to get accustomed to the skiboards in December and then probably start climbing mountains in January. I have a number of 1500 to 2500 foot climbs in mind (for which I need to carry a pack in case of blizzards requiring spending the night) so I want to practice with the skiboards with the right pack weight in the different types of snow I'm likely to encounter. So the most interesting posts I'll have will probably be in late January. But I'll also post pictures of my set-up when I get everything together.

[valmorel]

ekraft... one thing that is bothering me is the toe-lever fastening of a typical skiboard binding. Early Figls use a heel lever for fastening. There is good reason for this, the heel area and vertical component of the boot is pretty stable, so should hold the heel lever well. This is not quite the case with a toe lever, which is maybe resting against an essentially softer part of the boot and so may loosen due to the toe area deforming. Obviously this will not be the case with hardshell boots like the Asolo.

[ekraft]

valmorel, that is a concern for me too. We'll see how it goes. I did go with the Lowas because they lighter and slightly more like a hiking boot than a rigid ski boot. Maybe 90% of my climbs are ascending, so a boot that fits that activity is my primary need.

Mitigating factors are, the Lowa is still a pretty stiff boot. The toe isn't as hard as, say, a rigid plastic boot... but it is far from easily deforming soft (acknowledging we may have different definitions here). Also, I don't plan on aggressive, high-speed cuts - I'm not planning on straining these bindings or my boots or feet. As Jack referenced, right now I snowshoe up and foot-glissade down. At this point, I'm strictly looking for faster, more stable (and fun) method of getting down off of mountains. If were to become an aggressive downhiller, I would no doubt get an additional set of stiffer boots.

Our shared concerns is also why I'm planning on doing a lot of testing before I attempt to climb higher peaks assuming I can get down faster via lengthy bouts of "hiking boot" skiboarding.

[jjue]

Boot Compatibility Issues

I have continued researching the compatibility of different mountaineering boots with skiboard non release bindings such as the Receptor . I show up at sporting good stores with my Canon 75cm skiboard mounted with Receptors . The store guys are all interested in the idea of sliding down the hill on little skis after climbing up and think it is a pretty cool idea ! I try on boots and then try to get them into the binding . Here is an issue I have found . Some modern "crampon compatible boots" do not have a protruding ledge on the front sole , like old time welted boots , or like modern boots such as the Lowa Expert GTX and the Asolo Evoluzione plastic boot I tried the other day . Some boots like this nice stiff , lightweight , La Sportiva Makalu, have a new way of doing crampons with a groove cut into a flush front toe box .. these types of grooves DO NOT WORK for the front lever of skiboard non release bindings



The Scarpa Inverno may or may not work .. the pictures show the ledge protrudes sliightly ahead of the toe box even though the groove is cut into the boot ...


As far as the toe box deformation issue .. I did some experiments using the soft cross country boot I pictured above , descending in summer glacier type snow on snowblades and found that the boot remained secure in the skiboard finding although as Valmorel points out the soft toe box is a bit deformed by the lever of the skiboard binding .. The important thing is locking the front lever firmly .

[valmorel]

But I bet they could be made to work with a soft boot binding

[jjue]

But I bet they could be made to work with a soft boot binding

Very good point .. and one I forgot to mention .. new this season is a receptor soft boot binding interface that can be attached to any 4 x4 insert equipped skiboard , to this interface a snowboard soft boot binding can be attached , so that any winter boot could be used with skiboards for descent .

http://www.skiboardsonline.com/Merch...oduct_Count=16

The problem is weight and bulk . because you have the weight of the riser and then the weight and the bulk of the soft boot snowboard binding which is less attractive then a boot that is compatible and just snaps into the regular skiboard binding .

[graeme]

funny this thread comes up, i am toying with the idea of using the soft boot interface as part of a touring set up. soft snowboard boots and snowshoes, then skiboards with snowboard bindings. sounds like a marriage made in heaven to me.

[jjue]

today tried out this Koflach plastic mountaineering boot , first with the Alp 110 and then the Canon Easy rider 75cm

i use a power strap around the ankle to firm the ankle support a bit .

These boots are pretty soft compared to ski boots... and driving the 110 Alp was a bit sketchy ... perfect match with the tiny 75cm boards though


I even dropped some steep power in the 75cm set up ... as long as the slope is steep enough riding a 75cm is just like a controlled elevator descent

[ysb33r]

valmorel, that is a concern for me too. We'll see how it goes. I did go with the Lowas because they lighter and slightly more like a hiking boot than a rigid ski boot. Maybe 90% of my climbs are ascending, so a boot that fits that activity is my primary need.

Mitigating factors are, the Lowa is still a pretty stiff boot. The toe isn't as hard as, say, a rigid plastic boot... but it is far from easily deforming soft (acknowledging we may have different definitions here). Also, I don't plan on aggressive, high-speed cuts - I'm not planning on straining these bindings or my boots or feet. As Jack referenced, right now I snowshoe up and foot-glissade down. At this point, I'm strictly looking for faster, more stable (and fun) method of getting down off of mountains. If were to become an aggressive downhiller, I would no doubt get an additional set of stiffer boots.

Our shared concerns is also why I'm planning on doing a lot of testing before I attempt to climb higher peaks assuming I can get down faster via lengthy bouts of "hiking boot" skiboarding.

Any updates on this? I need to buy a pair decent rigid mountaineering boots again at some stage and I would be keen to try and use it with a short skiboard like the pair of Big Foots that I just have stored in the loft.

I think it it is key to use a mountaineering boot that is B3-crampon rated, such as the Scarpa Vega, otherwise there would be to much flex in the boot.