Spruce Slingshots vs Summit Invertigos head-to-head

[ysb33r]

I think it would work with a tech binding adaption and allow crampons to be attached on the low spot between the heel and toe pieces. I tried mocking a similar set up with hdpe toe and heel pieces but I was not happy with the amount of overhang of toe and heel pieces using unsupported hdpe pieces and I really think if you have this degree of overhang you should do it like Bill with metal pieces. A custom riser like the Receptor base could be designed with 4x10 and 4x 4 inserts.

My mind have tinkered with this idea. I actually forgot about this prototype from Bill . I can foresee a problem in this design in that a flexible skiboard will hit the protruding parts as they are still pretty low. They will have to be rubber padded as well.

[jjue]

....Maybe the same design as the current riser, but reduces in height could work if the edges are rubber padded on the riser to cope with higher flex.

What I need to do is go to the local rental shop and rent a pair of touring skis again and measure their flex. The guy there is pretty smart and immediately recognised that a 4x4/4x10 riser would work better than direct-mounted binding due to the length of a skiboard as compared to a long ski.
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I really like this design by Bill which used the receptor base albeit with a standard release binding .

https://forums.skiboardsonline.com/f...ing-conversion

I think it would work with a tech binding adaption and allow crampons to be attached on the low spot between the heel and toe pieces. I tried mocking a similar set up with hdpe toe and heel pieces but I was not happy with the amount of overhang of toe and heel pieces using unsupported hdpe pieces and I really think if you have this degree of overhang you should do it like Bill with metal pieces. A custom riser like the Receptor base could be designed with 4x10 and 4x 4 inserts.

[ysb33r]

jjue indeed w.r.t. the riser. I have noticed on the Slingshots that it bends up much more than the Invertigos when Jeff's flat riser is attached. I had some private discussions about riser height with Jeff and one can see from that how well the current downhill riser is designed. The height is optimal for board flex and the contact length of the riser is less than that of non-existing non-release bindings as to minimise any potential flat spots. So any lowering of the riser has to deal with that. Maybe the same design as the current riser, but reduces in height could work if the edges are rubber padded on the riser to cope with higher flex.

What I need to do is go to the local rental shop and rent a pair of touring skis again and measure their flex. The guy there is pretty smart and immediately recognised that a 4x4/4x10 riser would work better than direct-mounted binding due to the length of a skiboard as compared to a long ski.

I also need to take the Crossbows out for another tour and see how it deals with the tough snow conditions we are experiencing.

[jjue]

Thank you ysb33r for your in depth multi part comparison of the two boards in all conditions. I have a Summit Maruader as well as the Slingshots and I was wondering about the flex and stiffness of the Invertigo and wondering if it had changed much from the other Summit board. The Maruader is very stiff compared to the Slingshot . I really think that the Slingshot is one of those boards where the inserts are a big deal and allow the board to flex properly and perform optimally. It has a wonderful combination of great edge hold and yet a wonderful flexible feel in variable snow. Interestingly this season I have ridden my Slingshots both with a standard Spruce riser and the custom low profile flat riser for the Fritschi touring binding that Bill made that is long and flat to the board and doesn't allow as much flex as the standard Spruce riser. In soft perfect powder snow there is not much difference but in variable resort snow like you mention I really can notice how the standard Spruce riser allows the Slingshots to flex more and lead to a nicer ride. I also have ridden the Fritschi touring binding riser on the original non rockered Condor which is a very flexible board and compared it to my new set up which is a custom tech binding on top of a standard Receptor binding . Again I notice that the Fritschi low profile touring riser sort of simulates a direct mounted binding and interferes with the flex compared to the much smaller footprint of the Receptor binding . I really like the flex of the original non rockered Condor .In your design of your own touring set ups it is something to think about when considering how you design your riser on insert boards. Certainly for touring purposes a board you can drill with any binding you want is easier then a skiboard that requires inserts but my own experiments have confirmed that at least for certain boards , especially the more flexible boards a proper riser mounted binding on the inserts really allows the boards to shine.

[ysb33r]

A little update. Warmer temperatures and wet snow have led to some difficult conditions. Yesterday I decided to grab the Slingshot-Invertigo pairing again. I went off on the Invertigos first, hitting the black runs as warm-up. Well the first black run, is probably only brown wuth some short steep sections. It turned out that all the soft crud was lying on the right-hand side and through them I went on the Invertigos.

They were all over the place, Their stiffness made them bounce up a lot more and the bumps got felt up into my back. I had quad burn on the first run. I was immediately thinking I am not going to take them down the freeride area. I just opted for the Aliga, which was open. It is a steep black run that gets used for the FIS World Cup downhill. Yesterday instead of ice, it had some slushy sections. Continuing on the Invertigos, which dealt adequately with the piste, but still was really bumping around, I rode back to the car and switched to the Slingshots.

What a relief. They just dealt with the tough conditions much better and I felt confident to go down the freeride areas. Very difficult riding. The snow was about ankle deep, very sticky and quite tracked out in places leading to big dumps. I had to stop and plan ahead even knowing the area quite well. I even had a small backwards fall in the freeride where I bumped my head against the slope. There was just no way I wanted to ride that on Invertigos. I stayed on the Slingshots for the rest of the day.

For me personally, the Slingshots are becoming clear winners. I just wish they were better at touring. I was thinking of turning the Invertigos into touring skiboards with direct-mounted tech pin bindings, but I have my doubts now. Maybe I should go ride them with poles (!) for a bit and see how they do.

[Deddly]

This is really useful stuff, thanks for sharing!

[ysb33r]

Could not do the FIS world cup downhill racing run as it was closed for a competition, but got to do some of the very steep black runsincluding part of the FIS slalom run. The Invertigos did really well on those.

Confirmed that the Slingshots still has an edge in turning in ungroomed, tracked-out, soft snow.. There was one or two places where I was really not comfortable getting an easy turn on the Invertigos, but where the Slingshots would definitely have done a better job.

Overall there is very little to choose between the two. It might just be that a heavier rider would prefer the stiffer Invertigos, whereas a lighter rider would have more fun on the softer Slingshots.

[ysb33r]

Ran the same runs on Slingshots that I did on Invertigos. Conditions were much the same, but had to battle the wind in some places. It was in the cruddy, spring-like ungroomed snow, where I personally found that the Slingshots have the edge in turning. For downhill it seems the areas to explore between the two models are the influence of flex and the difference in the tail profile.

Tomorrow we plan to go to another area, which includes the FIS world cup downhill track and also some interesting soft or ungroomed areas, which will make for a good comparative test. Next week I am planning to switch to touring setup.

[ysb33r]

A great blue sky day. I snowed the last couple of days, but also rained. The slopes were well groomed, but the side-piste stuff was a heavy soft snow. This is the second day out on Invertigos, but with a couple of runs I could fill some muscle memory building around the nuances of the Invertigos. On the groomers they turn naturally and and they build up quite a build of speed. One of the things I do is to sometimes ride the groomers with my hands behind my back, so that have to purely rely on the knees to do the turning in a balanced manner. This exercise confirmed that the Invertigos turn as well as the Slingshots on the hard stuff.

Off to the soft stuff. The skiers that we with me all commented how they struggled to turn. All I have to say is that I did not experience this. I could feel there was some drag, but the Invertigos turned well as long as I planned ahead. I could the back of legs against the boots and in this position the Invertigos lifted well enough to ride the conditions. It also dealt with the bumps and the crud that came along.

Then I did more side-piste stuff on my own and going faster. I lost my balanced a couple of times and I now found a condition where IMO the Slingshots did better than the Invertigos. I was caught out but the stiffer boards a couple of times. I found that on the Slingshots I could just heel-down and turn and it would get the turn in the conditions, but the Invertigos would not quite go as easily. I suspect a heavier rider might feel the other way around in the same conditions.

There are more riding coming this week. We are now going to get any powder until at least the weekend, so that test has to wait, but for anything else there is no clear winner.

[Bad Wolf]

I have often wondered the same myself, and with no over ruling organization guiding the sport, I would presume that how long each manufacturer is prepared to go with non release is a question of their own tolerance to liability.

[ysb33r]

Do the Invertigos have 4x4 inserts ? I think that all Summit boards now have 4x4 inserts to allow the use of the 4x4 insert pattern snowboard boot binding they sell . I guess Summit doesn't worry about folks putting non releasers on their boards over 110 cm?

Yes & yes.

I vaguely remember there being some write-up on 110cm being the optimal length, but cannot find it. Greco reckons it was just an industry convention, but no research to back it up.

This is a grey area.

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[jjue]

Do the Invertigos have 4x4 inserts ? I think that all Summit boards now have 4x4 inserts to allow the use of the 4x4 insert pattern snowboard boot binding they sell . I guess Summit doesn't worry about folks putting non releasers on their boards over 110 cm?

[jjue]

Looking forward to your further impressions . One significant difference from the specs is that the Slingshots have a completely flat tail with no rocker and a more pronounced Y configuration with a narrower tail . Be interesting to see how they both do in powder from a center mount position. From the specs the Slingshots should sink the tail more.

[ysb33r]

Initial weigh-in including bindings per pair:

- Invertigos 5.58kg
- Slingshots 5.04kg

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[ysb33r]

First day out and it was snowing lightly and visibility was down. There was not going to be any speed riding. The focus was to repeat a set group of red runs. Since the Invertigos are new, I aimed to do 3 runs on them at least before any comparison.

By the time I did the 4th run visibility was so bad that I had to call it a day. I did not get to ride the Slingshots, but as I knew the particular pistes so well and rode them many times on Slingshots under similar conditions before, an initial comparison was in order.

I think under these hard pack conditions with a dusting of new snow on top, the Slingshots engage the turn just that little bit quicker and hold the carve a bit better. The Invertigos seem to have a bit more of a slide in the turn. Maybe the difference in flex plays a role here.

However, this is only early days. We have some good snow coming in, so I am planning to spend a bunch of time out on Tuesday after the storm has passed.



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