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  • Steeps
    replied
    Originally posted by newbie2011 View Post
    I always wondered, are you guys doing any kind of scouting out of the steeps you're riding ? I would imagine going just "straight ahead" towards any direction will sometimes lead to dangerous natural hazards - big cliffs and such - that you cannot get through. Are you aware in advance of what areas to avoid ? Or you just backtrack to safety when you hit such and these sequences don't get into the vids that you're posting ?
    I've had 3 (4?) full seasons on this hill, so I know the areas I'm riding. I take it a lot slower when I'm scoping out new lines or in cliffy areas. I tend to just let it rip in the trees, and hope a path will open up... it usually does, but once in a while I hit them. For the most part, skiboards are quick enough to deal with obvious obstacles in front of you, but in poor visibility it's easy to get in a bad situation around cliffs.

    Kicking Horse has a few permanently closed areas, but there's only a few actual cliff signs anywhere. For the most part, it's all open and completely to your discretion whether you can huck that 60 ft cliff or not (I can't). There's runs that you need to stay slow and in control, because they cut along a sloped ledge betwen two cliff bands. There's a run (near top of thread) that you need to climb down a cliff on a knotted rope to reach the chute. There's a little secret-entrance chute called Suckers Go Left that has a very narrow entrance... at least one person has died from falling to the left. My favorite area (mid video, steep tree run with the sketchy entrance) is called Coffin Trees. So yeah, keep your wits about you and don't let 'er rip unless you know your line.

    Things get pretty spooky outside of resort boundaries, which is permitted here but not avalanche controlled or patrolled, at your own risk. I've set off small slides in controlled resort boundaries, and don't really venture out without a group, and on the lower mountain. Need some avalanche training and experience to start hitting the alpine slack country...... there are some insane chutes a few minutes outside the boundaries.


    That particular video is about 80% of the main runs I did, with the boring groomers, cat tracks and traverses pruned out. I left out one tree run that didn't go so well, just lots of getting treed out and a couple minor crashes. Had a stupid crash after the one rocky little cliff drop that's in the video, but at least the drop was clean.

    You'll see that line again, I'm sure, as there's a number of cool features on it and I'm trying to dial it in this year. This isn't a GoPro thing; on a hill you ski frequently it's fun to pick a challenging run with a few jumps or whatever and hit it over and over until you're smooth. It transfers to runs you don't know so well, since you get used to repeated jumps/bumps/quick turns without a lot of stops between.​ I miss one line I used to have in the Terra Ratta area of Whitewater, near Nelson.... 8 consecutive drops in steep cliffy glades. Nothing too big, drop-wise, but it was a rush when it all lined up.

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  • ysb33r
    replied
    Originally posted by Bad Wolf View Post

    When Sempai and I first started skiing the Utah resorts together, we relied heavily on the trail maps. We would often go off trail to explore new terrain, but would be aware of danger areas like cliffs and out of bounds. If anything are problem was getting stuck in flats and having to skate out. I think most modern resorts are pretty well signposted.
    Stuck in flats indeed. Might be safe, but so tiring and frustrating

    Sent from my Mi Note 10 Pro using Tapatalk

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  • Bad Wolf
    replied
    Originally posted by newbie2011 View Post
    Nice one, don't worry about editing, there are no problems with the raw version,very enjoyable ! I guess those guys were also surprised by the speed you were closing in, coming from nowhere out of a steep slope and on not much - compared to their long skis

    I always wondered, are you guys doing any kind of scouting out of the steeps you're riding ? I would imagine going just "straight ahead" towards any direction will sometimes lead to dangerous natural hazards - big cliffs and such - that you cannot get through. Are you aware in advance of what areas to avoid ? Or you just backtrack to safety when you hit such and these sequences don't get into the vids that you're posting ?
    When Sempai and I first started skiing the Utah resorts together, we relied heavily on the trail maps. We would often go off trail to explore new terrain, but would be aware of danger areas like cliffs and out of bounds. If anything our problem was getting stuck in flats and having to skate out. I think most modern resorts are pretty well signposted.

    Leave a comment:


  • newbie2011
    replied
    Nice one, don't worry about editing, there are no problems with the raw version,very enjoyable ! I guess those guys were also surprised by the speed you were closing in, coming from nowhere out of a steep slope and on not much - compared to their long skis

    I always wondered, are you guys doing any kind of scouting out of the steeps you're riding ? I would imagine going just "straight ahead" towards any direction will sometimes lead to dangerous natural hazards - big cliffs and such - that you cannot get through. Are you aware in advance of what areas to avoid ? Or you just backtrack to safety when you hit such and these sequences don't get into the vids that you're posting ?

    Leave a comment:


  • Steeps
    replied
    Too lazy to edit, so here's a rough cut of Jan 6, 2021 at the Horse... pretty much how the day went down, in order. Another average skiboard session. Camera angle was too low for the first couple of runs, so you get to see my 'style'. Not too many style points when you're going full stonk! Video's all at normal speed, in case you were wondering. I've been asked.

    Didn't add music but it pairs well with Ministry - Jesus Built My Hotrod



    Boss made me work the last Saturday of the holidays, so I got to play some Wednesday powder hooky. 7 cm of fresh over another 50 cm in the last couple of days. I love big powder dumps, but this may actually be my favorite conditions. Super soft if you eat it, but firm enough underneath to float and not worry about burying the tips off a drop. Lots of fun little pops and drops, and good glade riding.... reminded me a bit of Whitewater.

    The hikes weren't open, but Stairway laps were sweet and the chair was pretty much ski-on. Broke the seal on B4 a bit before noon for some fresh, steep and sweet shots.

    There's a couple of swears near 4:40, dude's never seen a skiboarder before I guess. Welcome to Kicking Horse! Finished up at the treehouse.

    Knees are a little sore today, not sure why??

    Leave a comment:


  • Steeps
    replied
    Oh, good news! I've had it in my head that they were longer. The Spliffs do so well that I haven't seriously toyed with the idea of a dedicated powder board... yet. Had at least one day last season where I could of used them.

    Thanks Courtney! I keep looking at those triple blacks on the Bohemia map and wondering how they measure up to my home turf... might have to catch a meetup once travel's an option again. Or host one... will have room for guests by next season, and my neighbour's got two rental cabins right next door. Either hole up at the Horse or do a full Powder Highway trip... Red's only about 3 hours from Spokane, Washington.

    Leave a comment:


  • ysb33r
    replied
    Originally posted by Steeps View Post
    All I know is Spliffs float good. I'd love to try some RCs out, but the need for releasable bindings makes them less attractive as a resort board. When I finally get a touring setup sorted I'll be more likely to look for a pair. It'd be fun to try a pair of Blunt XLs out to see what all the hype is about, but not sure how well they'd translate to the stuff I like to ride.

    I had a question about Spliffs on groomers, so thought I'd upload a short carving vid:

    (I like to "pendulum carve" - keep my torso relatively upright while swinging my legs out from the hip down)

    KH is generally crap as far as grooming goes (it's mainly a freeride hill, and management pays minimum wage to their snow cat drivers), so this was probably the best corduroy I'll find this season! Otherwise, I'd call it about a 6.5/10 by Western Canadian standards, firm underneath but with the ridges soft enough to get an edge in. Silver Star was my home hill growing up, and it's very well-groomed. I'm spoiled by Eastern standards, from what I've seen posted.

    Conditions at the Horse are usually consistently good in the alpine, but the lower mountain sometimes warms up, then re-freezes. It's entirely possible to get powder up top and ice crud below. Life got a lot better when I learned to slarve, but I'll take good carving when I gets it!
    RCs are 110cm. You can use NR with them.

    Sent from my Mi Note 10 Pro using Tapatalk

    Leave a comment:


  • Courtney
    replied
    Cruising! Loving these videos, that looks like such an awesome spot and great snow. Glad to see you're out having fun!

    Leave a comment:


  • Steeps
    replied
    All I know is Spliffs float good. I'd love to try some RCs out, but the need for releasable bindings makes them less attractive as a resort board. When I finally get a touring setup sorted I'll be more likely to look for a pair. It'd be fun to try a pair of Blunt XLs out to see what all the hype is about, but not sure how well they'd translate to the stuff I like to ride.

    I had a question about Spliffs on groomers, so thought I'd upload a short carving vid:

    (I like to "pendulum carve" - keep my torso relatively upright while swinging my legs out from the hip down)

    KH is generally crap as far as grooming goes (it's mainly a freeride hill, and management pays minimum wage to their snow cat drivers), so this was probably the best corduroy I'll find this season! Otherwise, I'd call it about a 6.5/10 by Western Canadian standards, firm underneath but with the ridges soft enough to get an edge in. Silver Star was my home hill growing up, and it's very well-groomed. I'm spoiled by Eastern standards, from what I've seen posted.

    Conditions at the Horse are usually consistently good in the alpine, but the lower mountain sometimes warms up, then re-freezes. It's entirely possible to get powder up top and ice crud below. Life got a lot better when I learned to slarve, but I'll take good carving when I gets it!

    Leave a comment:


  • newbie2011
    replied
    Originally posted by ysb33r View Post
    How did you calculate surface area? I normally do width at waist x running length, which is a good enough approximation for determining floating capability at rest.
    I was trying to be as accurate as I could, worried that cutting too many corners might get some boards closer than they actually are. So it's all of the green parts: the sum of two half circles (could not think of a better approximation for tips and tails) plus a big trapeze minus the side triangles. This is the most general case which works for all, as it covers the Spruce boards,even though for the RVL8 the trapeze becomes a rectangle.


    Click image for larger version  Name:	board_shape.jpg Views:	0 Size:	23.2 KB ID:	262997

    Originally posted by ysb33r View Post
    I think you have a better analogy on the boats. I have started investigating water ski physics and it is probably a good approximation of powder skiing as long as the dynamics of liquid H2O is ignored.
    Water ski is an excellent idea, but I'd lack the physics knowledge to dig deeper into it, indeed, the boats analogy made me understand empirically the big picture

    Leave a comment:


  • ysb33r
    replied
    Nice table, Bad Wolf !

    How did you calculate surface area? I normally do width at waist x running length, which is a good enough approximation for determining floating capability at rest. (Of course once your start moving , more of ski is in contact with the snow so the actual effective surface area is different).

    I think you have a better analogy on the boats. I have started investogating water ski physics and it is probably a good approximation of powder skiing as long as the dynamics of liquid H2O is ignored.

    Leave a comment:


  • newbie2011
    replied
    Originally posted by Bad Wolf View Post
    Great table, would you mind if I posted it on the FB page for the folks there to see?
    No problem whatsoever, glad that you find it useful, feel free to share it, it's for the community's benefit anyway. I've been off FB for a few years, the only thing that's tempting me to get back is The Skiboard Connection

    Leave a comment:


  • Bad Wolf
    replied
    Originally posted by newbie2011 View Post
    I'm speculating as well, but I'm still lean toward the opposite, but cannot prove it. In my mind we decamber the boards when we have our full weight on the middle of the boards, like on flat, hardpack or when we lean forward and put pressure on the tips. In deeper snow, when we have our weight mostly on the tails, or at least on the back part of the boards, we're not pressing the tips at all, even though they are still in snow, but will they decamber without weight ? Not at all, completely, or to some extent ? Have no idea



    Like you, there's long since I've forgot all the physics that I've learn in school, I tentatively remember we'd be exerting two forces, vertically the gravitational one and a horizontal one, friction related, but I can be completely off here and unable to figure how it would apply to cambered boards in powder
    The best explanation I've found regarding the rocker angle, was an analogy to boats: low angle and long rocker will be similar to a speed boat, going fast in smooth conditions, while steeper angle and shorter rocker would be more like a tugboat, being able to break any kind of waves and not be bothered by irregularities. This would make the XLs and Spruce 125/Ospreys the ones that would go fastest in smooth powder; while SII, Spliff, Blunt, Crossbows, Slingshots, Shepras would be the most maneuverable for different conditions. And the RCs would be the jack of all trades, having a longish rocker and the steepest angle
    (below listed only the rockered board)

    Area cm2(one) Rocker height Rocker length Rocker Angle Camber
    RVL8 Rockered Condor 1494.66 10 170 3.3
    Spruce Sherpa 1482.20 5 110 2.6 6
    Spruce Osprey 1482.20 8 300 1.5
    RVL8 Spliff 1404.09 3 100 1.7 6
    RVL8 Blunt XL 1360.16 5 220 1.3
    Spruce Crossbow 1316.53 2 80 1.4
    Spruce Slingshot 1300.96 3 75 2.3
    Spruce 125 1296.64 6 250 1.3
    RVL8 Blunt 1194.56 4 110 2
    RVL8 Sticky Icky Icky 1097.26 2 80 1.4 5
    Great table, would you mind if I posted it on the FB page for the folks there to see?

    Leave a comment:


  • newbie2011
    replied
    Originally posted by Steeps View Post
    The counter-argument is that in reasonably deep powder, the cambered area of the board is still in contact with the snow, and still providing float despite the camber. It would be rare to have a situation either in hardpack or powder where one is making full snow contact (i.e. not in the air or tail surfing) and not compressing the camber into contacting the snow.

    Pure speculation, of course...
    I'm speculating as well, but I'm still lean toward the opposite, but cannot prove it. In my mind we decamber the boards when we have our full weight on the middle of the boards, like on flat, hardpack or when we lean forward and put pressure on the tips. In deeper snow, when we have our weight mostly on the tails, or at least on the back part of the boards, we're not pressing the tips at all, even though they are still in snow, but will they decamber without weight ? Not at all, completely, or to some extent ? Have no idea


    Originally posted by ysb33r View Post
    The physics are a bit confusing for me here, but in essence you have a flat projection first and then when the tails sink the projection changes. However as this point it is going beyond my level of knowledge. What I do know is that the angle that the from base of the ski forms with the snowline is more important in this case. This determines the drag/force on the ski. What you do have is the force (coming from the snow) pushing against the front part of the ski base. On a rocker the way I understand it is that it will flex more and as such as be pushed above the snow level and exposing more of the base to the glide. Whereas on a stiffer board the lift is not so much and the ski will dip into the snow more, thus exposing the bindings and boots more which in turn cause more friction and could even lead to rapid decelaration.
    Like you, there's long since I've forgot all the physics that I've learn in school, I tentatively remember we'd be exerting two forces, vertically the gravitational one and a horizontal one, friction related, but I can be completely off here and unable to figure how it would apply to cambered boards in powder
    The best explanation I've found regarding the rocker angle, was an analogy to boats: low angle and long rocker will be similar to a speed boat, going fast in smooth conditions, while steeper angle and shorter rocker would be more like a tugboat, being able to break any kind of waves and not be bothered by irregularities. This would make the XLs and Spruce 125/Ospreys the ones that would go fastest in smooth powder; while SII, Spliff, Blunt, Crossbows, Slingshots, Shepras would be the most maneuverable for different conditions. And the RCs would be the jack of all trades, having a longish rocker and the steepest angle
    (below listed only the rockered board)
    Area cm2(one) Rocker height Rocker length Rocker Angle Camber
    RVL8 Rockered Condor 1494.66 10 170 3.3
    Spruce Osprey 1482.20 8 300 1.5
    Spruce Sherpa 1459.80 5 110 2.6 6
    RVL8 Spliff 1404.09 3 100 1.7 6
    RVL8 Blunt XL 1360.16 5 220 1.3
    Spruce Crossbow 1316.53 2 80 1.4 6
    Spruce Slingshot 1300.96 3 75 2.3 4
    Spruce 125 1296.64 6 250 1.3
    RVL8 Blunt 1194.56 4 110 2
    RVL8 Sticky Icky Icky 1097.26 2 80 1.4 5
    Last edited by newbie2011; 03-09-2021, 09:33 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ysb33r
    replied
    Originally posted by newbie2011 View Post
    It's true, but this happens on groomers. I've probably not expressed myself clearly, but I was thinking about camber vs rocker _in powder_, where there's no more real carving. I was imagining that the camber kind of goes away, which I realize it doesn't make sense, cannot be true, the rider will not be able to use it like you describe, for carving, but the board will not suddenly become flat by itself. And with the weight being more on the back of the boards (again, in powder), the XLs probably have a larger tail end - weight baring - area than the Spliffs, so despite the slightly greater total area of the Spliffs, the XLs could actually provide more tail support. ( them being shorter, I don't suppose they are flexier, so the flex should not impede on the flotation comparison )
    The physics are a bit confusing for me here, but in essence you have a flat projection first and then when the tails sink the projection changes. However as this point it is going beyond my level of knowledge. What I do know is that the angle that the fron base of the ski forms with the snowline is more important in this case. This determines the drag/force on the ski. What you do have is the force (coming from the snow) pushing against the front part of the ski base. On a rocker the way I understand it is that it will flex more and as such as be pushed above the snow level and exposing more of the base to the glide. Whereas on a stiffer board the lift is not so much and the ski will dip into the snow more, thus exposing the bindings and boots more which in turn cause more friction and could even lead to rapid decelaration.

    Leave a comment:

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