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More Thoughts Skiing vs Skiboarding

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  • More Thoughts Skiing vs Skiboarding




    Nice first day of the Tahoe Season with my son at Heavenly yesterday . He thought he would ditch his long skis and try the Crossbows for the first time.
    A word about my 26 year old son . I introduced him to skis as early as 4 years old but he pretty much disliked skiing and trying to learn how to ski until age 8 when he discovered snowboards . He rapidly became super good on them and joined me in the backcountry at age 11 carrying his snowboard and using snowshoes.
    As a young teenager I reintroduced him to skiing through skiboards. Originally , I had him on Summit Mauraders and then Spruce 120's , Ospreys , and Sherpas .
    Later as an older teen he migrated on to long skis. He now divides his time skiing and snowboarding and is expert on both . His current favorite long ski is pictured above along side the crossbows. It is a 181 cm Salomon Quest 106., rockered/cambered at the tip 140-106 -122

    I asked him what he thought about riding on the Crossbows and in general his thoughts on riding skiboards vs skis. Ps. after 1 run he adjusted to riding the Crossbows and was riding them better then I charging down the slope. I was also on the Crossbows. We both had a great time on the Crossbows. Basically he said that for him , skiboards were much easier to turn then regular skis . They almost turned by themselves with just the slightest weight shift , almost like think a turn and then they turn . He says he had more fun turning a lot rather then just setting them on edge and making wide arcing turns like on a long ski. He said that a higher speeds ( he was going way faster then me , kind of how Dave Lynam or Courtney rides skiboards on groomed snow ) he felt that they were significantly less stable then long skis requiring more careful attention to small changes in balance and terrain then a long ski. He says that he can understand from riding the skiboards in the past in backcountry snow how skiboards are easier to turn and maneuver in technical snow and terrain especially at lower speeds and that how in technical terrain , tight trees, difficult snow , steeps etc. longer skis while more stable , are more difficult to maneuver and generally ride faster . He doesn't think he will ditch his long skis for skiboards but enjoyed riding them for a change of pace. Meanwhile , I did try riding my long skis a bit last season and I won't be ditching my skiboards any time soon for them !


    Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk
    Boards :
    Spliffs
    DLPs
    Condors
    Slingshots
    Sherpa

    Boot:
    K2 BFC 100

    Bindings:
    Zero Pro Non release Binding
    Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
    Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
    Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

  • #2
    Hey Jack, looks like you got some new ski threads. Lookin' good.

    Skiboards:
    2013 Spruce Sherpas w/Tyrolia Peak 11s
    2015 RVL8 Blunt XLs w/Tyrolia Attack 13s
    2018 Spruce Crossbows w/Tyrolia Peak 11s
    2017 RVL8 Sticky Icky Ickys w/Tyrolia SX 10s


    Boots:
    Salomon X-Pro 80

    Past boards: Salomon Snowblades, Line MNPs 89 & 98 cm, Five-Os, Bullets, Jedis, Spruce 120s, LE 125s, Ospreys
    Summit 110s, Nomads, Jades, RVL8 ALPs, BWPs, KTPs, Tanshos, Rockets, DLPs, Blunts, Condors, RCs, Revolts, Spliffs

    Comment


    • #3
      For some reason when I edit a post on the desktop that I originally post through Tapatalk the pictures don't come through correctly in the Tapatalk view and just have html wording. Here are the pictures again from yesterday so you can see them on Tapatalk

      Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk

      Boards :
      Spliffs
      DLPs
      Condors
      Slingshots
      Sherpa

      Boot:
      K2 BFC 100

      Bindings:
      Zero Pro Non release Binding
      Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
      Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
      Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by sempai View Post
        Hey Jack, looks like you got some new ski threads. Lookin' good.
        I'm going to miss the green jacket and the wooly sherpa hat
        Just these, nothing else !

        Comment


        • #5
          Cheers on getting out with your son, and getting him on the Crossbows. I know what he's talking about with the feeling of turning as soon as you think about it. The last time I was on long skis for a couple of runs, the thing that struck me the most is that skis don't work like that.. you actually have to plan a turn, initiate it and follow through.

          Stability at speed on skiboards is a matter of mindset, I think. For someone used to a long ski, it's going to feel pretty rough and unpredictable on skiboards when you open them up. They're so light that it's easy to get slammed around by small crud and bumps if you're trying to power through like you would on a big ski.

          I didn't get really comfortable riding at high speed until this past season, when the general lack of powder made getting comfortable with hardpack a necessity. Mastering the slarve certainly helped; previously, my mindset was to be in full edge-carve mode at all times, which isn't always a possibility on hard snow (the DLPs do a pretty good job of it, though). It's a different type of control.

          Skiboards do have a couple of big advantages at speed, though.. the biggest one is the short running length and light weight. I find a lot of my technique at speed is related to controlling the vertical part of the ride. It's a matter of lifting your feet as needed to skip over obstacles and crud, with a little tail pop here and there, and not getting slammed around by everything in your path. The ability to just react to what's underfoot and not have to deal with the tips and tails of a longer ski makes for a smoother ride, if you get dynamic with your knees and plan your contact points with the snow. On a good day, you can dance across the tops of a mogul field, and not have to slam through the troughs, for example. The short turn radius does let you take the most direct route down a patch of bumps quicker than most other gear, especially in those ugly bumpy gully runs that have been used as a half-pipe by snowboarders.

          The other speed advantage with skiboards, mentally at least, is riding non-releasable bindings. I'd be too terrified to ride at the speeds I do with a releasable binding, because losing a ski at high speeds is just too much of a risk. Knowing that my boards will stay on no matter what I slam through is a big confidence booster.
          Make Skiboarding Sexy Again

          Comment


          • #6
            Nice insights,Steeps, about the advantages of skiboards! Thanks!

            Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk

            Boards :
            Spliffs
            DLPs
            Condors
            Slingshots
            Sherpa

            Boot:
            K2 BFC 100

            Bindings:
            Zero Pro Non release Binding
            Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
            Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
            Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Steeps View Post
              The other speed advantage with skiboards, mentally at least, is riding non-releasable bindings. I'd be too terrified to ride at the speeds I do with a releasable binding, because losing a ski at high speeds is just too much of a risk. Knowing that my boards will stay on no matter what I slam through is a big confidence booster.
              Maybe I don't ride as fast as you do, but I would beg to disagree. I would just use a coil leash.
              Current: '20 Spruce Slingshot 119s, '20 Spruce Crossbow 115s, '18 Spruce Osprey 103s (touring)
              Also: '11 Allz Elaila 94s, '12 Rockered Condor 110s, '15 Spruce Osprey 132s (touring), '18 Spruce Crossbow 115s
              Previous: Gaspo Hot Wax 84s, Mantrax 98s, Summit Nomad 99s, Spruce Yellow 120s, Eman Uprise 104s

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Steeps View Post
                Stability at speed on skiboards is a matter of mindset, I think. For someone used to a long ski, it's going to feel pretty rough and unpredictable on skiboards when you open them up. They're so light that it's easy to get slammed around by small crud and bumps if you're trying to power through like you would on a big ski.
                In my admittedly limited experience, I think it would depend on the specific skiboards being used as well. For instance I enjoy a lot the Revolts, they are so unbelievably easy to turn, but when picking up some speed, if it's not properly groomed, they get a bit, not unpredictable, but the ride gets a bit rough, they get influenced a bit by the crud and small bumps that form up during the day, they don't indeed power through everything. But this is barely an issue on the 120s and on the 125 LE I don't notice anything, just power through, at speeds i could never imagine I could reach while I was skiing. I'm never going back to skis
                RVL8 Blunt XL
                Spruce Raptors 125LE
                Revel8 2010 Revolt Trees 105cm
                Spruce Yellow/Red 120s

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ysb33r View Post

                  Maybe I don't ride as fast as you do, but I would beg to disagree. I would just use a coil leash.
                  I'm not worried about not finding the board after a crash, I'm worried about the loss of a board at speed causing me to crash. Non-releasable bindings will hold on under some pretty severe impacts if you hit a bad patch but can stay on your feet. It used to be an issue when I was a skier; now they stay put and I just bend binding plates or break cores, which ruins my gear but not usually my runs. I'm not a fan of premature ejection...

                  I'm not sure how fast I actually go... I need to beg an old smartphone off someone this year and start using skitracks or whatever the app is. I do know I can drop about 3500 ft (1075 m) of altitude in under 6 minutes in fairly rough conditions. I'm keen to get those times down if we get more fresh snow this year; 5 or 10 cm is usually ideal for top speed on moderately steep slopes (I'll take 15 - 20 for more extreme pitches).

                  I surely prefer untracked powder over cut-up crud, but from my experience the cut-up stuff gives skiboards an advantages over skis and snowboards, provided they're rockered. Spliffs seem to ride anything out no matter how fast you're going, if you keep your legs loose and the tips up. My DLPs aren't as good in crud, but a lot more rdependable for turns on hard snow.

                  I agree that longboard skiboards would be even better for high-speed ripping and stability, but since I won't give up my Receptors, I'm stuck at 110 cm or less.
                  Make Skiboarding Sexy Again

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Pre release at high speeds it not an issue if you have your bindings and boot system are properly adjusted and maintained. As a ski tech, i've only seen this happen a handful of times in 15 years, and it was always due to human error from improperly set bindings, or compromised system.
                    Fox-Trotting - Thrifty Wanderlust & Adventures

                    Skiboard Magazine

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I won't dispute that. My bindings must be properly adjusted, as they never release.

                      With respect to longer ski(boards)s, the extra leverage and forces involved mean that binding release is desirable, and I do know that modern freeride gear is meant to stay put under extreme conditions. Nevertheless, I do get a confidence boost from knowing I won't lose a skiboard when I catch a tip in deep powder, land a drop further forward than I should, crash and start sliding headfirst down a slope and so on. I've gotten pretty good at the tip-catch tuck-and-roll and at arresting a slide, and on steep slopes can often get back on my feet without coming to a full stop. It's one of the things I really like about the sport... ski-style riding with snowboard-level binding security and crash recovery.

                      I'm not advocating non-releasable bindings over releasable bindings in terms of overall safety, but it works for me and removes one of the factors that used to hold me back on skis.

                      Incidentally, the only time I've tweaked a knee on skiboards was an embarrassingly slow-motion fall, after coming to a stop. Catching an inside front edge into an outward twist (as in that instance) is certainly a concern, and I try to keep my feet together when I'm going down.
                      Make Skiboarding Sexy Again

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I kind of go back and forth. I love the direct feel and security of non release, but worry too much when using them. Have never come close to injury with them, but that worry factor spoils my day.
                        Crossbow (go to dream board)
                        Most everything else over time.
                        Go Android

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