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  • starting off kids wiht short skis?

    Sorry if this has been posted before. I could find similar, but not exactly the same, questions. I have two kids who have never been skiing or snowboarding before, and rarely even have been in the snow. I used to ski (always on skis much shorter than '"they" said I was supposed like) but now exclusively skiboard. When the kids are older I think they will also skiboard or snowboard, but both will start on skis. They are very uncertain about the whole idea, so my first goal is to start them in a way so that they will like decide this is fun, so the family can maintain the skiing lifestyle my husband and I have always enjoyed. The kids are 8 and 11, both about 66 lbs (one 4'3", the other 4'8").

    My question is, I know the lengths the ski shop would put them in and definitely would go at least on short end of that so they don't get frustrated. However, what are the pros and cons of starting them off on kids skis that are similar in length to skiboards? (~90 cm) One pro already is the kids will be freaked out if their first skis are longer than mine. I think avoiding getting the skis all crossed up in bumps and crud (inevitable on even our bunny slopes) should be easier, but keeping control on icy slopes may not be, and I'm not sure about the difficulties of stopping. BTW we are in the mid-atlantic ice zone.

    Thoughts? Other ideas? I am open to understanding the issues they may see, but at least I am asking the folks here who have dropped the dogma that one should only ever ski on anything longer than the height of your chin, lest the mountain gods strike you down

  • #2
    My two cents (or more):

    From your profile it looks like you based on the East Coast so any concerns about big skis for big powder are a few seasons off while your kids learn the sport before you can take trips out West..

    Thoughts:

    Age -- For learning to ski your kids are nearing the age where things get hard as they are approaching a point where the brain works towards self preservation rather than reckless fun. Starting kids in the 3-6 year old range is easier as they are lower to ground and less likely to get banged up in a tumble. You can't make them younger but just understand it might be harder for them to start. Make things fun and create an environment where they wont want to give-up.

    Length -- Going shorter is fine. I kept my girls (now 11 and 13) on skis shorter than their chin until the felt they needed more length and wanted to ski harder. If the ski shop gives you a hard time find another shop. For your kids size I would start the younger skier on something around 110cm and the older skier on something around 120cm. This is just below what is recommended for a skier of their height. If you are going to ski a lot try to find a ski lease program. This will save you money over daily rentals on the hill. This also gives your kids their own gear for the season which gives them ownership and gets them on and off the hill faster leaving more time to ski. One other benefit of many lease programs is you can swap out gear during the season if you want to go longer or shorter.

    Lessons -- The beauty of learning to skiboard as an adult is you can do so without formal instruction. With that said ski instruction does have its benefits, especially for kids. Kids are more inclined to listen to an instructor than Mom and Dad. It also eliminates screaming matches and family frustration on the hill. I started both my kids in lessons but took a unique approach .... I avoided group lessons at all costs and invested in private one-on-one lessons. Private lessons are MUCH more expensive but your kids get so much more out of their time with the instructor and therefore you need less lessons. My youngest, who was 4 when she started, only did one individual lesson and two semi-private lessons with her sister and never needed another lesson again. My oldest , who was 7 when she started, required a 2 more lessons to get more comfortable but this was a grand total of 5 lessons over 3 initial seasons.

    Ski shape -- Everyone talks length but no one takes ski shape/design when asking what to start their kids on. My kids started on traditional direction rental skis which generally SUCK. These are the tip crossing monsters that everyone struggles with. As they got into their 2nd and 3rd seasons we leased skis that had some tip/tail rocker and had binding positions that were closer to the center of the ski. First, my girls loved the initial cool factor of having "park skis". Second, the reason these skis are so popular is the rocker makes them more forgiving and easier to turn. Third, the center mount allows for a more natural upright riding style and gives more tail support (not unlike skiboards). Selecting skis that were more like park skis than race/rental skis was one of the best things I did for my kids.

    Skiboards for kids -- They really don't make skiboards for kids but my oldest does have a pair of skiboards in her quiver (at 13 she is 5'9" and is full adult size) She rides them about 20% of the time but mostly prefers her long skis for stability at speed. She rides a ski that is at the middle end of recommended ski length but we built up to that length over years. Don't get hung up on what your kids will ultimately ride. My youngest skis and snowboards and will never ride skiboards. What's important is that we are all on the mountain together.


    SIDENOTE -- Since it looks like you are in Maryland drop me a note if head up to Pennsylvania to ride. We regularly ride at Jack Frost, Big Boulder, and Elk and always enjoy connecting with other riders from the skiboarding community.
    Boards:
    2016 Spruce tuned Head Jr. Caddys - 131cm
    2013 Spruce "CTS" 120s
    2010 Spruce "Yellow/Red" 120s
    2018 Spruce "CTS" Crossbows - 115cm
    2016 RVL8 Spliffs - 109cm
    2008 RVL8 Revolt "City" - 105cm
    2017 RVL8 Sticky Icky Icky - 104cm
    2011 Defiance Blades - 101cm

    Comment


    • #3
      Ditto everything Wookie said. I am also east coast and two of my children are real close in age, height, weight as yours are. I also imagine my kids to be on skiboards when they are older or at least shorter skis than the charts would say.

      We have tried a lot of children's skis and done a lot of research and really like the Volkl Wall, Volkl Step, Volkl Ledge, Volkl Pyra (girl's graphics). You might see these listed as Mini or Jr designation depending on length. The best is to get previous year's models that come with the Marker 4.5 Fastrak II adjustable bindings (these are better than the newer EPS bindings because they will adjust with growing boots sizes). These models are essentially all the same except graphics, and the Ledge is a composite core instead of wood (Wall, Step, and Pyra are wood). The skis are twin tips with centered mounted bindings, and all rocker (no camber). The profile is narrower which combined with the all rocker and twin tips makes learning turns so much easier than any other children's ski out there (in my opinion).

      My two youngest children that are similar to yours have been skiing for 4 years and 3 years and this year will be skiing the 98cm Volkl Step and 118cm Volkl Wall this season. The smaller one could bin in a 108 this year, but she has less time on the mountain. I would suggest that since yours are just starting out for the first time to go with 98cm and 108cm this year knowing that if all goes well, then next year graduate the smaller one to the 108cm from this year and then buy a 118cm for the older one (note the 118cm increases the width profile quite a bit so I wouldn't go there the first year).

      If you do little searching you might be able to find a better deal, but LevelNine has them for $179: https://www.levelninesports.com/volk...-bindings-2017

      Here is a listing on eBay for the Step in 98cm for $99.99 from a shop in Canada I've purchased from before. They say the bindings are not mounted and they are not clear on whether they are the Fastrak binding or not (vs EPS). But you could email them and verify if Fastrak, and if so ask if the rails/traks are already mounted, but just the bindings are not slipped on (I think that is probably the case). If so, this is great deal: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-Volkl-M...cAAOSw-4BXbUea

      By doing some additional searching on eBay you could likely find both pairs for a really good price new. Search "Volkl 98cm" and include description in search and do the same for the 108cm. . . Seems like there are a bunch of options that you will just need to verify mounting and if the fastrak binding.

      Feel free to ask amy questions.

      Comment


      • #4
        I kept my two girls on short skis until they switched to snowboards as teens. By short I mean about 100 cm.

        If you do put your kids on skiboards, do not use non release bindings with them. The damage at that age can be irreparable.
        Just these, nothing else !

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks!

          Thanks for the quick answers. Pretty much reinforcing what i was thinking. I definitely planned on skis (not skiboards) and releasable bindings. I just wondered how important the "proper ski length" is and what happens if you ignore it to the short end. I've always ridden skis that are too short, and once tried some of the old skiboards that were basically short skis. The latter were crazy slow but not otherwise so awful on greens and blues, so wondered what the down side is. Would they expect the shorter edge length offer less control? Would they likely chatter and/or skid too easily?

          I actually do plan to buy versus lease, as kids packages can be had for good prices. I will definitely check out those Volkls. My thought is new skis/bindings and used boots/other stuff from our local ski swap. I already have helmets and some other things. Level nine does have some great prices so I've been looking there. Has anyone tried their house brand skis? They are priced great (~$100 new with bindings) and get decent reviews. Have to be better than rentals, but if other things are enough better, the money is not the big deal except that it's all spending at risk until they like this sport. All the best deals are now though so we're just jumping in. I also was looking at the Dynastar Salsa kid and some cheap K2s. I already assume they will want something different in a year or 2, but having their own shiny new gear helps get them excited, and at prices like these, I can easily take the risk they'll hate it and drop these at the ski swap next year.

          I actually saw such an amazing price on dynastars a couple weeks ago that I bought one pair for my daughter while I was thinking it over, but think i will return as 92 cm seems too short. She does need a length she can handle though. She is 4'8" but only 66 lbs so pretty tiny. The recommendations you guys have offered are within about 10cm of each other, so that's starting to get consensus I will use. Thanks for the inputs.

          While I'm starting off-topic kids ski conversations, though, has anyone ever used one of those indoor training places with the fake snow carpet treadmill sort of thing? They get good yelp reviews and there's one opening in Leesburg, VA. If they don't suck too much, might be another way to get them quickly to deciding this is fun without the cold, falling down, lifts, etc. before the winter starts. BTW not taking any of the gear I'm buying on that LOL.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by beckyricha View Post
            .... Would they expect the shorter edge length offer less control? Would they likely chatter and/or skid too easily?....
            Your kids wont notice much of edge hold difference or skidding issue between a 100cm ski and a 120cm ski. The shorter skis will be slightly slower and provide less fore/aft support but are worth the benefit of being easier to turn and less likely to "tip cross".

            Originally posted by beckyricha View Post
            ....I actually do plan to buy versus lease, as kids packages can be had for good prices....
            For me leasing was always more economical. My local shop does a boots, bindings, and skis season lease for $70-90. The skis come tuned, tested, and professionally fit. What they lease is typically higher end than basic rentals or bottom end retail skis as their rental fleet is mostly composed of trade in skis from racers and park skiers that have outgrown their gear. Lastly the lease skis, from my shop, have direct mount binding which are much lighter than rail/rental bindings which are easier on little legs. Saving 1/2 lb per ski doesn't seem like much but when your a kid and that's hanging off your leg every lift ride it is a lot

            When comparing lease to purchase don't forget the service cost of buying skis online or used gear. You will need a binding test and tune and likely need to mount the bindings (few online shops, other than Level Nine, do mounting).

            Tune - $10-25
            Binding Test - $0-25
            Binding Move/Mount - $15-90


            Originally posted by beckyricha View Post
            While I'm starting off-topic kids ski conversations, though, has anyone ever used one of those indoor training places with the fake snow carpet treadmill sort of thing? They get good yelp reviews and there's one opening in Leesburg, VA. If they don't suck too much, might be another way to get them quickly to deciding this is fun without the cold, falling down, lifts, etc. before the winter starts. BTW not taking any of the gear I'm buying on that LOL.
            I have used those treadmill trainers for ice skating but never skiing. Frankly they feel really weird and I didn't think the practice transferred to on ice skating. Perhaps skiing would be different but the feeling of skating without really moving was odd.
            Boards:
            2016 Spruce tuned Head Jr. Caddys - 131cm
            2013 Spruce "CTS" 120s
            2010 Spruce "Yellow/Red" 120s
            2018 Spruce "CTS" Crossbows - 115cm
            2016 RVL8 Spliffs - 109cm
            2008 RVL8 Revolt "City" - 105cm
            2017 RVL8 Sticky Icky Icky - 104cm
            2011 Defiance Blades - 101cm

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by beckyricha View Post
              She does need a length she can handle though. She is 4'8" but only 66 lbs so pretty tiny.
              I realized this from your first post. Again very similar to my kids. These Volkl's are very lightweight, and the Fastrak bindings are all plastic so very light as well. I have a pair of K2 Indy's same size that are so much heavier. My son is a stick and has very weak legs - he had a hard time with any of the typical kids skis (K2 Indy, K2 Juvy) as those were heavier, not rockered in the tail, nor twin tipped, and a wider profile. As soon as I put him on the Volkls it was an instant change for the good. He could easily swing the skis in a turn and gained confidence quickly. On his second time out on the skis he said he wanted to do a black diamond. The next time out he wanted to do moguls. Now he is skiing all over the mountain. In his case the change in skis was definitely the key to his progression.

              I wouldn't have any problem sizing skis anywhere from chest to chin for a children's ski in their first year. Slower is better the first year, and if twin tipped with center mount then you have plenty of ski in front and behind for balance even if shorter.

              Comment


              • #8
                $144.99 for 108cm Volkl Ledge: https://www.amazon.com/Volkl-Mini-Le...rds=volkl+mini

                $144.99 for 98cm Volkl Ledge: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2016-Volkl-M...kAAOSwYIxYBTid Just need to verify if the fastrak rail is already mounted.

                Comment


                • #9
                  92 cm is plenty long for an adult let alone a kid[emoji106]
                  Just these, nothing else !

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks!

                    Thanks everybody. Level nine has some screaming deals on packages so I went with the Volkls for both of them. I know brand new for kids is not the most economical or smart, but the excitement value is important for our family for other reasons. I went with the 118 cm Pyras for her and 108 cm wall for him. They got the matching colors of Roces adjustable boots and can't wait for it all to get here. The stuff she is buying so far will make her giant pink fluffball flying down the mountain but at least she'll be easy to spot LOL. Skis, boots and bindings were less per kid than the SIIs I'm waiting for, so that helped the decision. I'll try to remember to post back in a few months with how they do in case anyone else has a similar question later, but wanted to thank you all for thoughtful feedback. I know its a ski topic on a skiboard board, but I went a direction I had not been considering before and think it will be good, so this was useful.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by beckyricha View Post
                      Thanks everybody. Level nine has some screaming deals on packages so I went with the Volkls for both of them. I know brand new for kids is not the most economical or smart, but the excitement value is important for our family for other reasons. I went with the 118 cm Pyras for her and 108 cm wall for him. They got the matching colors of Roces adjustable boots and can't wait for it all to get here. The stuff she is buying so far will make her giant pink fluffball flying down the mountain but at least she'll be easy to spot LOL. Skis, boots and bindings were less per kid than the SIIs I'm waiting for, so that helped the decision. I'll try to remember to post back in a few months with how they do in case anyone else has a similar question later, but wanted to thank you all for thoughtful feedback. I know its a ski topic on a skiboard board, but I went a direction I had not been considering before and think it will be good, so this was useful.
                      Great to hear! I hope that the kids really enjoy their first season so that you have many more ahead of you. These past couple of years have been a major investment in time and money in getting my whole family on skis/skiboards and it is really starting to pay off - I look forward to many more years on the snow as a family making lifetime memories!

                      The adjustable boots are also a great thing - I currently have both of my younger kids in a Full Tilt Growth Spurt adjustable boot and started my smallest one out in the Races Idea boot - they basically have every boot size 16.0 - 25.5 covered in just three boots total (Roces Idea small, Full Tilt Growth Spurt small and large)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        follow up

                        As promised here is the follow up - both kids are doing great with the Volkl setup. My daughter already bombed down all the blues at Snowshoe on her third day on skis. My son is skiing just as well, but is only 8 and a little more timid so sticking on the greens for now. The length and brands chosen seem to be really good. So far they have only experienced awesome snow, though. Christmas week conditions at Snowshoe were almost western. We'll see if they still like what usually passes for skiing around here in the Pennsylvania slush this weekend

                        My husband and I did not like the indoor ski simulator much after our longer visit (too "edgy" and unforgiving if you are used to real snow; always felt like I was about to take a major wipe out), but for the kids I do recommend it as a great way to learn some basics before adding the cold, fear of speed and too any layers of uncomfortable clothing. They were not falling down and got great instruction.

                        Thanks again for all the input.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by macrophotog View Post
                          The adjustable boots are also a great thing - I currently have both of my younger kids in a Full Tilt Growth Spurt adjustable boot and started my smallest one out in the Races Idea boot - they basically have every boot size 16.0 - 25.5 covered in just three boots total (Roces Idea small, Full Tilt Growth Spurt small and large)
                          Not to hijack the thread, but what are your thoughts on Roces vs Full Tilt?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Fun Machine View Post
                            Not to hijack the thread, but what are your thoughts on Roces vs Full Tilt?
                            Both great boots, but I definitely prefer the Full Tilt Growth Spurts if you can find a deal on them. The liners on the Full Tilts is thicker and warmer and just seem better made. The problem is you need to keep an eye out on ebay for a deal and they only come along every so often whereas the Roces Idea boots are less expensive new.

                            One interesting design difference on the shells:
                            * The Full Tilt boot sole length changes as you adjust sizes - this makes sense when you see how they work.
                            * The Roces Idea boots actually does not change boot sole length - it is the same through all mondopoint sizes. I don't have a pair anymore to comment on how that works, but it is a unique approach.
                            Neither of these approaches is better, unless the bindings on your children's skis are fixed, because then you wouldn't have to worry about remount with the Roces as you expand through the size range. All of my kid's skis were using the Marker Fastrak adjustable bindings so changing boot sole length did not matter.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by beckyricha View Post
                              As promised here is the follow up - both kids are doing great with the Volkl setup. My daughter already bombed down all the blues at Snowshoe on her third day on skis. My son is skiing just as well, but is only 8 and a little more timid so sticking on the greens for now. The length and brands chosen seem to be really good. So far they have only experienced awesome snow, though. Christmas week conditions at Snowshoe were almost western. We'll see if they still like what usually passes for skiing around here in the Pennsylvania slush this weekend

                              My husband and I did not like the indoor ski simulator much after our longer visit (too "edgy" and unforgiving if you are used to real snow; always felt like I was about to take a major wipe out), but for the kids I do recommend it as a great way to learn some basics before adding the cold, fear of speed and too any layers of uncomfortable clothing. They were not falling down and got great instruction.

                              Thanks again for all the input.
                              Great to hear - thanks for coming back and letting us know how things worked out!

                              Comment

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