How Many Of Us Are There?

[Bad Wolf]

The more I look, the skiboards I see. This weekend at Sunrise in AZ I saw a group of seven or eight skiboarders from the lift. They looked like they were on blades and were speaking Italian (?). I never caught up with them. Later in the day I saw two guys on skiboards, again from the lift. One was giving the other a lesson; again they looked like they were on blades.

The next day was the day of the Mini Junk Tour at Snowbowl AZ. I saw two teens in the park tricking on skiboards. This time I caught up with them and said Hi. They were on blades, and said they wished some one made a wider skiboard so they could ride all over the mountain. I told them all about Revel8, because they had never heard of us. They wanted to hook up later with the the Junk Show guys and try some modern boards, but it got busy and I never saw them again.

My wife skiboarded for several years and never knew of the forum, and her sister has KTPs, but didn't even know they were called skiboards. She just thought they were short carving skis.

I hand out Revel8 cards to everyone I can, but I wonder how many skiboarders are out there. I also wonder how much of the skiboarding community this forum represents; 10, 20, 30, 40, 50%....more? Some one else here said that they think skiboarding is about to be the next big thing. Is it already here and we just don't know it. Does our future lay with getting kids into the park on skiboards or converting frustrated skiers, or both?

I get so many inquiries from skiers and snowboarders on the lift. They know they are skiboards and want to know if they are as much fun as they look. I've even had people stop me on the slopes to find out what I'm riding. No mockery, they are genuinely interested. I think our time has arrived.

[iDee]

One here at Mt. High, Wrightwood CA. I try to spread the word when asked about my setup. Going to bring the stack of SBOL business cards on the next trip. Have to spread the word to the heathen snowboarders.

[sempai]

That's a good question. Most of the people I see on shorties are on skiblades and not skiboards. I was at our local resort yesterday tearing it up BIG TIME on my RCs. I had so many people interested in them including all the lift attendents. Everyone said I looked like I had two mini snowboards attached to my feet.

[valmorel]

The RCs will do a lot to raise our profile. I get so much interest in them

Go Nexus

[Bluewing]

On a global basis if you added up all of the people on variations of the theme - people on skiboards, snowblades and skiblades - it is probably a fairly large number. However, if you look at that number in comparison to the total number of people visiting resorts and not riding these it is a very, very small percentage of the total. Just look at your own experiences - it is cool to see 1, 2, 6 or even 8 people on a weekend at a resort on boards, but think about how many people are on the slopes on skis or snowboards.

Take the busiest ski resort in North America - Breckenridge, CO - which has around 1.6 million skier visits per year. I have never been there, but I suspect the people who are there frequently rarely see more than a handful - 2 handfuls at most - of skiboarders on any given day.

It would be interesting to see if Greco or Jeff have any market data on how big the global ski and snowboard markets are and how big the skiboard market is.

I found this presentation by the SnowSports Industries of America - some really great data and information in it.

http://www.slideshare.net/siasnowsho...n-presentation

Not sure if the embed code it generated will work but here it is. I often have trouble editing posts at work (I have to use IE) so if the embed is not right and I can't fix it I will take care of it when I get home:

Growing Participation Presentation from SnowSports Industries America

Here are a few key slides:

Number of participants in snowsports in USA:



Ski and Snowboard Sales in USA:



Global Skier Visits:



Global Ski Sales:



Important: Why Don't Most First Timers Return? 83% of people who try snowsports once don't come back!



Growth Opportunities

[Bluewing]

Opportunities for Growth

Pulling a few key threads from the SIA presentation embedded above:

Improve conversion of first time participants - 10 years of effort by resorts and partners only resulted in a 2% improvement

Wow - that is really a poor result. Why? Well, look at the slide above regarding 83% of first timers not returning. Main reason I think - frustration. I watch a lot of people at my home resort trying to learn to ski and snowboard and most of them don't look like they are having fun. Plus, it looks like a lot of hard work. I know firsthand since I learned to snowboard at 42 years old so I could help my daughter learn (she participated in the Burton Learn to Ride program). It was hard work, painful, frustrating and I suffered numerous injuries during my learning curve, including hurting my shoulder that took 6 months to rehab.

Let's not focus on snowboarders since they are not on 2 planks, but 1. Let's focus on skiers. I watch people learning to ski and they are on long skis that they can't control, poles in their hands that they don't know how to use and generally look like they have no idea what to do. The instruction teaches them techniques, such as wedging, that later they will be told to stop doing it that way.

I took a 1 hour lesson on 90cm Salomons at Whiteface in March 2010 after only having been on skis 3 times in the previous 15 years and I had a blast. I was smiling and having fun. I didn't fall once. I felt in control. I was riding slowly, but when I wanted the blades to do something they did. The instruction didn't involve any technical terms or complicated techniques. That hooked me on this sport. Why not do that to get others involved en masse?

If resorts used skiboards or blades to teach - at least to start - I think their programs would be much more successful. Of course, that is probably swimming upstream against some industry standard method for teaching.

Lapsed participants - 5 to 10 million people used to ski

Why don't they ski anymore? Maybe lack of time and other interests. Maybe because as they skied less it was less fun since their skills degraded. Maybe as they aged they felt less secure on the slopes and afraid that rusty skills, lessening strength and slower relfexes put them at increased risk.

Skiboarding I think addresses the risk because it is more intuitive, the boards are easier to control and overall I think has less skill degradation over time.

Create more opportunities to get involved

Can do this organically by individuals being good ambassadors on the slopes but that is a small effort compared to what could be done if resorts got behind skiboarding. Think of the impact if Revel8 and Spruce could team up with a resort to have a demo day - maybe rider demonstrations on the slopes and offering products for demo rides for customers at the resort.

Discover new aspects of the sport you can get better at as you get older

Common things with the "lapsed skier" opportunity above. Look at what "Bumps for Boomers" is doing using blades (and maybe short skis?) to help older skiers learn how to ride moguls.

Spread the word. Help people discover wintersports.

Common things with the "create more opportunities to get involved". Demo days or "discovery days" at resorts would be huge. Work with the resort to set this up. Put up a booth, have product on display, have sponsored riders and enthusiasts there to chat it up, put on a demo in the park to show want can be done, do demo rides with sponsored riders and enthusiasts taking people out on the mountain to demo boards.

[enouf24]

One here at Mt. High, Wrightwood CA. I try to spread the word when asked about my setup. Going to bring the stack of SBOL business cards on the next trip. Have to spread the word to the heathen snowboarders.

I believe Mt. High will be my new home mtn next season.


bnuf

[Zach]

Blue:

I'm curious about the lessons at whiteface. I was up at Sunday river last season and with out ski and stay package it came with a free 90 minute lesson everyday.

I figured what better way to improve my riding as to take a lesson. When I showed up for the lesson they had to check with the boss who said no way since my bindings were non- release.

I have heard you mention whiteface and lessons before and in dying to check this out. Wondering if I could get an advance lesson riding MY boards rather then blades? You have any more info about this?

[Bluewing]

Blue:

I'm curious about the lessons at whiteface. I was up at Sunday river last season and with out ski and stay package it came with a free 90 minute lesson everyday.

I figured what better way to improve my riding as to take a lesson. When I showed up for the lesson they had to check with the boss who said no way since my bindings were non- release.

I have heard you mention whiteface and lessons before and in dying to check this out. Wondering if I could get an advance lesson riding MY boards rather then blades? You have any more info about this?

The only advice I could give is to contact the snowsports school at Whiteface and talk through the details. I am not sure what their view on non-release bindings would be. I am a bit puzzled by Sunday River's response. I am sure the lesson came with a waiver one would have to sign regardless of what you ride indicating that they are not responsible for anything.

[cyborg]

just a quick comment on the 83% figure -

I think that skiing/snowboarding is something that a LOT of people try without even intending to get into it. It's a popular winter vacation activity for families; it looks fun and it's not difficult to find (resorts everywhere, show up, hand over some cash, get fitted for rentals, get on a lift). Lift accessed snowsports are, let's face it, something that at an entry level takes little effort. A lot of people don't want to expend a lot of effort doing something (hence why the number of people who drive through national parks is exponentially higher than the number of people setting foot on a trail), so a lot of those people will not put much effort into learning it.

Almost everyone I run into has gone skiing or snowboarding on a family vacation or trip with friends. MUCH higher than those who have, say, gone mountain biking or kayaking or another "adventure sport". The number of people I know who are into it as a sport/hobby are much fewer, and more in line with people who are trail runners, mountain bikers, kayakers, climbers, etc.

I don't know if the rest of you see the same trend, maybe it's just me. I think it's something to remember when looking at that figure, before feeling like we are a niche in an unsustainable group of sports.

[2Shoes]

My RC's get a lot of attention from attendants and other Skiers and Snowboarders. People are interested but we need to get the Resorts to carry Skiboards as rentals and then those who may not really get into Skiing or Snowboarding can try them out. This is why Solomon Snow Blades have become fairly popular and people actually have heard of them or tried them.

The key to spreading the word is through Rentals. It's hard to make that decision to drop $300-600 on some Skiboards and not be sure you will like them. The first time I tried Snow Blades was Renting a set one day after my Skis were left at home when I was 12. I've been on Snow Blades till this year where I found Skiboards while researching a new set of Snowliding Devices.

[Bluewing]

The key to spreading the word is through Rentals. It's hard to make that decision to drop $300-600 on some Skiboards and not be sure you will like them. The first time I tried Snow Blades was Renting a set one day after my Skis were left at home when I was 12. I've been on Snow Blades till this year where I found Skiboards while researching a new set of Snowliding Devices.

Rentals and by getting ski instruction programs to use skiboards or skiblades. Ed Kreil, the snowsports director at Whiteface and the guy who came up with their Parallel from the Start program that uses Salomon blades, has this type of thing to say about ski lessons and the use short skis:

"We don't teach the wedge anymore because, after they learn it, they have to unlearn it when they parallel ski. We teach them right from the start how to ski as a good skier skis, and then we improve on that,'' Ed said. He added that people are having fun when they learn on Snowblades. "You don't feel like you're learning, you feel like you're skiing.''

"We can teach a monkey," said Ed Kreil, the ski school director who devised the "Parallel From the Start" program. "It really is that easy. I have seen people who can barely walk or see become avid skiers. People over 70 learn how to ski."

"The secret lies in using short skis - only 3 feet long - and no poles."

"Fifteen years ago, half the lesson-takers usually quit before the first lesson was half-done," said Mr. Kreil, a native of Germany. "The problem with most people is that ski shops put them on too long of a ski. People have to learn to cater down to shorter skis. More people would have fun if they experienced a shorter ski."

I can attest to the having fun part speeding learning along. When I did my Parallel from the Start lesson there I was relaxed on the bunny run we started on. When we got on the lift to do a green, which actually had a pretty good pitch to it at a rollover, I wasn't feeling as relaxed. The instructor, a guy from South Africa named Alex who was probably in his early 50s, looked at me and said, "Smile. You can't have fun if you aren't smiling. And if you aren't having fun you aren't going to learn very much today." That broke the ice for me and from that point on I have never felt any type of anxiety on blades or skiboards.

I think that would be a tremendous thing to help other people experience and blades/skiboards I think could play a big part in that. If they eventually moved onto skis or something else, OK. Maybe they split their time between sliding devices. Maybe they become hardcore skiboard junkies and fellow evangelists.

[slow]

........................ and fellow evangelists.

That you certainly are!

BTW: thanks for the link to the slide show, it was an interesting read shedding light on their perspective. But I could not stop thinking of their self interest of promoting their current product offerings verses exploring or rediscovering other opportunities such as with skiboards.

[Faceplant]

I believe Mt. High will be my new home mtn next season.


bnuf

Cool. More vanguards at Mt. High. I haven't been healthy this season, so hopefully will meet up with everybody a few times next season. Granted, it's not Colorado, or Mammoth, but fun in its own right, and depending on where you live in SoCal, close enough to hit the mountains in the morning, and the beach in the afternoon, or the other way around, if you prefer.

[cyborg]

Rentals and by getting ski instruction programs to use skiboards or skiblades. Ed Kreil, the snowsports director at Whiteface and the guy who came up with their Parallel from the Start program that uses Salomon blades, has this type of thing to say about ski lessons and the use short skis:

"We don't teach the wedge anymore because, after they learn it, they have to unlearn it when they parallel ski. We teach them right from the start how to ski as a good skier skis, and then we improve on that,'' Ed said. He added that people are having fun when they learn on Snowblades. "You don't feel like you're learning, you feel like you're skiing.''

"We can teach a monkey," said Ed Kreil, the ski school director who devised the "Parallel From the Start" program. "It really is that easy. I have seen people who can barely walk or see become avid skiers. People over 70 learn how to ski."

"The secret lies in using short skis - only 3 feet long - and no poles."

"Fifteen years ago, half the lesson-takers usually quit before the first lesson was half-done," said Mr. Kreil, a native of Germany. "The problem with most people is that ski shops put them on too long of a ski. People have to learn to cater down to shorter skis. More people would have fun if they experienced a shorter ski."

I can attest to the having fun part speeding learning along. When I did my Parallel from the Start lesson there I was relaxed on the bunny run we started on. When we got on the lift to do a green, which actually had a pretty good pitch to it at a rollover, I wasn't feeling as relaxed. The instructor, a guy from South Africa named Alex who was probably in his early 50s, looked at me and said, "Smile. You can't have fun if you aren't smiling. And if you aren't having fun you aren't going to learn very much today." That broke the ice for me and from that point on I have never felt any type of anxiety on blades or skiboards.

I think that would be a tremendous thing to help other people experience and blades/skiboards I think could play a big part in that. If they eventually moved onto skis or something else, OK. Maybe they split their time between sliding devices. Maybe they become hardcore skiboard junkies and fellow evangelists.

If sikboards could be offered after the instruction with the blades, as an alternate route to getting on skis (would appeal to those who prefer the stance or don't want poles, or who enjoy the short turn radius and the feel of the wider/shorter boards), I personally think that would be the best. We all know that skiblades are not suited to more aggressive or serious riding like a ski/skiboard/snowboard/skwal/etc is. However, if skiboards were put in as the next "learner" skis, they would be viewed as a "newb" device, and everyone's goal would be to get off of them and onto "real" snow sliding machines.

I've never used skiblades, but from others descriptions, it seems that one can transition to skis or skiboards with relatively equal ease. So getting them out there as an alternative device that won't hold you back from keeping up with your friends on skis and snowboards, would, in my mind, be the best strategy. The videos that the Revel8 team has out are plenty proof that skiboards are a different animal than skis or snowboards, open unique possibilities to their riders, and are certainly not something strictly for newbies or kids ...... (as many on certain ski forums seem to believe... read a thread the other day entitled "how much to skiboards suck". Most didn't know the difference between snowblades and skiboards, and others seemed to believe that because skis are harder to maneuver and do spins and flips on, skiboards are then cheating and take less skill. but I digress....)