Defensive Skiing, Technique Improvement

[Bluewing]

I'm glad you brought this up. The next time that I get out here with good filming weather, I plan on making a little instructional video on "How to carve like a skiboarder".

The short sidecut radius found on skiboards allows a style of riding distinctly different from skiing. Although modern ski techniques are much more similar to skiboarding than they used to be, there still are big differences. Even within skiing, what is considered "best technique" is far different for a backcountry rider, a ski racer, or a park rat. From what I have seen, most lessons tend to consider race techniques to be "proper", even for riders just struggling to navigate the mountains. The skiboard-style carve below is far from "proper ski technique", but it sure is fun!

Great photo. Looks very similar to these:




I am not sure it is the ski techniques that don't apply. It might be more a matter of how they are taught. I have benefitted enormously this season from what I leared on the Sofa Ski School video and from short clips from Warren Smith's academy (especially re speed control and variable edge angles) that are available for free. I watch a lot of people learning to ski at my local resort - Bear Creek - both at the ski school and from "lessons" from their friends/family and I just shake my head at how difficult they make it. Put them on long skis that they have no hope of controllling, put poles in their hands with no idea how to use the poles and them have them slide essentially out of control until they somehow learn something. I can't believe that the use of blades or boards never really caught on as learning tools. Teach people the fundamentals of control, get them comfortable on the snow, give them some confidence and help them have fun first. Then, move them up in ski lengths gradually until they master each length.

[kirk]

... I am not sure it is the ski techniques that don't apply. It might be more a matter of how they are taught. ...

Very true. To an extent, skiing and skiboarding techniques are quite similar - just as to an extent, skiboarding and snowboarding techniques are actually very similar. Learning good techniques for skiing or snowboarding will vastly improve your understanding of skiboarding. Understanding the differences between carves and skidded turns, for example, transcends all sports, and really is the central piece to understanding how to ride modern snowsliding devices. I find it very hard to try do something until you can envision it in your head.

The major difference to me between skiing and skiboarding styles comes in way that skiing techniques promote a style of riding that makes it easier to unweight skis. In "proper" skiing, your head and shoulders are supposed to remain parallel to the ground and facing downhill at all times. Your core body twists and compresses through a carve, allowing you to "explode" out if it at the end of your turn and into the next one. Keeping your upper body upright and facing downhill combines well with using poles to unweight your skis.

Since skiboards are so light, this unweighting issue isn't the same as on skis, so the style can evolve. You can still ride with this style, but I find it much more natural to lean your whole body into a carve without any concern of keeping pointed downhill or keeping your shoulders square. In this respect, I find the leg work to be very similar to skiing, but the upper body mechanics more like snowboarding. It isn't impossible to ride this way on skis, but it goes against using poles and body tension to unweight for turns.

... I can't believe that the use of blades or boards never really caught on as learning tools. ...

I can't agree with you more on this. I am an extreme believer that, 90% of skiers would be riding better and having more fun if they were on a pair of 90-120cm skis/skiboards. The light weight and free feeling of skiboards make it easy to focus on the basics and gain confidence through trial and error.

My girlfriend had tried to learn skiing "properly" years ago but had a miserable time. I eventually bought her a pair of Tanshos for a Christmas present, and her first time out, she had an absolute blast. It was neat to watch how in a couple of runs she naturally transferred from snowplowing to riding parallel without instruction. By the end of her first day, she was able to slowly navigate icy East Coast black diamonds, when she never even left the greens on skis before. I really wish skiboards didn't have such a stigma and could be used in this respect.

[jjue]

Like Kirk I believe there are two main ways to ride skiboards , one is in a ski style with body facing down the fall line in an upright stance ,,the other is what I call skate style with body following along the curve of the skiboards and often a lower stance. . Many folks have a mix of both styles in different situations , both styles are great and work well . I deliberately have experimented with both styles and have personally settled on a very skier oriented style of riding my Rockered Condors even to the point of using poles like a skier and often unweighting , body is upright and facing straight down the fall line . Maybe because I have been a skier for so long but this style feels very natural to me and I have given up on the thought that somehow it is wrong to ride skiboards that way . It works for me , but certainly is not the only way to ride skiboards . My own mantra is whatever works for you is the best way .! You can pick up techniques but they really need to be applied by you to your particular skiboards and what feels best to you .. unlike in ski instruction there is no right way .( we do not have the professional skiboarders association of america dictating how skiboarding should be taught! ) .. it is all good as long as it works for you .... experiment and find out your own particular style , in many ways the boards are self teaching .Shredfest is very enlightening , you will see all kinds of styles .. you will see folks riding their boards like Dave Bloom and Kirk and Dave Lynam do and other folks who like me ride in a style that looks very much how skiers ride their skis ... It is all good .... there is no correct style IMHO ,

[kirk]

it is all good as long as it works for you .... experiment and find out your own particular style , in many ways the boards are self teaching. ... It is all good .... there is no correct style IMHO ,

Exactly! Skiboarding is freedom, and it is awesome to see how everyone has their own style - bringing backgrounds from other sports, and applying them in new and exciting ways!

[Bad Wolf]

"Multi Quote" everyone.

What a difference a month makes. This season is my first on "real" skiboards, but when I started this thread I was getting a little frustrated at my lack of improvement. I was basically trying to ski on 110 cm skiboards, and was getting totally stuck on ski technique, tips and videos. Each time I went out I was spending so much time on mechanics, I wasn't having any fun. The epiphany came for me when I posted a video of myself trying out the new 125s, and immediately got feedback about my poor skiing technique from the forum. Although it was good advice, I remembered that I got into skiboarding to get away from the downward spiral of paralysis by analysis.

Everything changed for me when I switched to 87cm boards. What they enabled me to to was turn at will without getting "stuck". I can now turn instantly on steeps, moguls, chop, powder and ice. Going sideways on them feels almost as safe as going forwards. What I gained was instant control and the ability to go anywhere on the mountain with confidence, even the park!

I don't think, or care, about technique anymore, but it does seem to be improving on it's own. I find myself pointing downhill more, turning smoothly, being balanced, feeling relaxed, in control and maintaining my speed. Although I'm careful, I'm not scared to go anywhere on the mountain anymore, in any conditions. My technique still may not be pretty, but it is effective and I'm having fun. for the first time.

I also owe a lot to skiing with my ten year old. She only sees the fun, and not the fear, in challenges. Instead of saying "I can't do this, it's too steep", she says "look how steep this is, it's going to be fun". I just follow her around and feed off her innate ability to trust her skills.

Maybe I'll move back up in length later, but for now I'm enjoying the freedom of my 87s.

[FightingForAir]

Very true. To an extent, skiing and skiboarding techniques are quite similar - just as to an extent, skiboarding and snowboarding techniques are actually very similar...

... In "proper" skiing, your head and shoulders are supposed to remain parallel to the ground and facing downhill at all times. Your core body twists and compresses through a carve, allowing you to "explode" out if it at the end of your turn and into the next one....

... I find it much more natural to lean your whole body into a carve without any concern of keeping pointed downhill or keeping your shoulders square. In this respect, I find the leg work to be very similar to skiing, but the upper body mechanics more like snowboarding. It isn't impossible to ride this way on skis, but it goes against using poles and body tension to unweight for turns....

...I can't agree with you more on this. I am an extreme believer that, 90% of skiers would be riding better and having more fun if they were on a pair of 90-120cm skis/skiboards. The light weight and free feeling of skiboards make it easy to focus on the basics and gain confidence through trial and error.

Kirk ... your post resonates so well with me. Having started out on very short skiboards and working my way up to longer sticks was such a natural and fun progression. I had been frustrated and did not have all that much fun trying to ski many years back. Skiboards really opened things up for me and made my development so much smoother and more enjoyable.

Now that my skills have gotten better, I find myself alternating between the two styles of riding you mention above - regardless of what length planks I'm on. When I want to get low, fast and aggressive... in long, deep carves, it is much more natural to let my shoulders and hips turn and follow the direction my boards are pointing. When I want to take a more direct line down the mountain and run things out, or make more rapid and frequent turn transitions, I stand taller, dip my knees less, stay pointed down the fall line ... and as Dave S. pointed out in another thread... I "angulate rather than lean". I feel that is more efficient and less tiring so I use this between periods of low, hard carving to give my legs a break.

At any rate, it's nice to be able to do both. It's also nice to develop some mastery over our descent. Being able to transition between carving, slarving, skidding, sliding, leaning, angulating, cruising, ripping, pivoting, smearing, bouncing and trouncing is such a revelation ... being able to make whatever kind of turn shape we desire and adapt that based on conditions, slope angle and mood ... we're able to more confidently tackle whatever terrain is in front of us without trepidation.

[kirk]

Maybe I'll move back up in length later, but for now I'm enjoying the freedom of my 87s.

I'm glad to see you had such good luck with the shorter boards. What I have always considered the "soul" of skiboarding is to take your equipment down to the absolute minimum that still lets you ride the way you want to. The freedom you get from the boards just being an slight extension of yourself is awesome. This mindset is skiboarding - whether you end up on 75s or 120s is just details.

[Bluewing]

What I have always considered the "soul" of skiboarding is to take your equipment down to the absolute minimum that still lets you ride the way you want to.

Brilliant insight. I am a big advocate of complexity reduction - take away everything that is not needed to accomplish the task or goal at hand.

The freedom you get from the boards just being an slight extension of yourself is awesome. This mindset is skiboarding - whether you end up on 75s or 120s is just details.

Another brilliant insight. You hit the heart of it - the boards being an extension of an individual as a person. That might not happen straight away, but when it does that is when a transformation occurs.

Someone should put Kirk's comment as a sticky post in the FAQ page and New Rider part of the form. Heck, add it as banner text on the site. This could be the "mission" statement of skiboarding!

"What I have always considered the "soul" of skiboarding is to take your equipment down to the absolute minimum that still lets you ride the way you want to. The freedom you get from the boards just being a slight extension of yourself is awesome. This mindset is skiboarding - whether you end up on 75s or 120s is just details."

[slow]

..................Someone should put Kirk's comment as a sticky post in the FAQ page and New Rider part of the form. Heck, add it as banner text on the site. This could be the "mission" statement of skiboarding!

"What I have always considered the "soul" of skiboarding is to take your equipment down to the absolute minimum that still lets you ride the way you want to. The freedom you get from the boards just being a slight extension of yourself is awesome. This mindset is skiboarding - whether you end up on 75s or 120s is just details."

Done in the "Basics" sticky.

[Bluewing]

Done in the "Basics" sticky.

slow rocks - again!