Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Faceplant - Why does it happen?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Faceplant - Why does it happen?

    This was my first year skiboarding. I was on Head 94s (yeah, I know not real skiboards) which are short, stiff, low camber, setback and asymmetrical. I rode a lot this past season in all kinds of junky East Coast conditions, including numerous times with manmade "powder" piles from the snow guns that were running continuously all day and also in deep wet spring mush. I never faceplanted on the Heads nor did I ever feel like I was going to. I did have the feeling I could faceplant at any moment while riding in very soft wet conditions on the Revolts I demo'd. That was not a pleasant feeling. 2 guys I ride with who ski did a "superman" this year when I was out with them - their skis went went into deep soft snow piles and they went flying through the air like superman after their skis slowed quickly and their bindings let go as their weight rapidly shifted forward.

    I almost hesitate to ask this because it might be one of those things I am better off not knowing about but how common is a faceplant on skiboards? I understand a faceplant is basically when your skiboards dive under the snow surface causing them to lose speed quickly which then causes you to pitch forward uncontrollably. Are there certain key factors where this is more likely to occur? Anything a rider can do proacticvely to reduce the potential?

    I am good with things when I know why things happen. I am not good when things happen for reasons unknown.
    In pursuit of Peace, Harmony and Flow.....
    Think Like a Mountain

    Boards ridden, some owned: Sherpas, Spruce 120 "STS", Blunts, DS110 custom prototypes, Rockered Condors, Revolts, DLPs, Summit Custom 110s, Summit Marauders, Head 94s, Raptor prototypes, Osprey prototypes.

  • #2
    I've only ever had this happen to me in powdery glades. I believe there is actually a short clip on me and Nick both going down at Bohemia in one of the edits. In that case, we were moving at a pretty decent pace and went down a short drop that was a bit deceptive. Nick went down and I followed right after. The other time I've had this happen is in really tight glades. The snow does a good job of covering low and/or fallen branches. If a tip goes under one, there is a good chance you'll go down. On the positive side, I've never really felt in danger of that happening with the Rockered Condors. They just ride up and over pretty much everything.
    RVL8 Condors - The Flex will be with me, always...until I break them

    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming... "WOW! WHAT A RIDE!!"

    Comment


    • #3
      One time honoured way to mitigate against face plant is to ride with your bindings set back. This is basically what the situation was with your 94s. This helps keep the tips up and tails down. It does somewhat spoil the skiboard experience though.
      Crossbow (go to dream board)
      Most everything else over time.
      Go Android

      Comment


      • #4
        2 years ago at Shredfest III, Art Jennings and myseff were riding @ Northstar. We were on the "backside" I guess and it was somewhat tracked out powder. We were just hauling it down. and Both my tips sunk out of no where and face planted into a scorpion. It hurt so bad. haha. But i was riding on some older revolts at the time. Might of been a stick, branch or a rock. Im not sure.

        bnuf

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by enouf24 View Post
          ... and face planted into a scorpion.
          OK - you have to explain what that expression means....
          In pursuit of Peace, Harmony and Flow.....
          Think Like a Mountain

          Boards ridden, some owned: Sherpas, Spruce 120 "STS", Blunts, DS110 custom prototypes, Rockered Condors, Revolts, DLPs, Summit Custom 110s, Summit Marauders, Head 94s, Raptor prototypes, Osprey prototypes.

          Comment


          • #6
            face planted then legs fold up over your head. Pretty much a back breaker. it looks like a scorpion tail.

            Comment


            • #7
              This may sound a little odd, but I sometimes deliberately bail face first when I get in a tight spot. I will literally dive downhill in order save my knees, especially when you come to dead stop in the slush. I've practiced martial arts for years, so it's actually pretty easy just to roll out of it and slide to a safe stop. Sounds dumb explaining it.
              Just these, nothing else !

              Comment


              • #8
                Great thread Bluewing and a subject dear to my heart ...
                Obviously face plants occur in soft snow when the front tips dive under the snow and you go face forward ..
                I love skiboarding in backcountry powder and in resort variable broken powder and I absolutely detest going forward on my face ... I would rather fall backwards in soft snow then go forward particularly with a huge heavy backcountry pack on my back ...
                also in very deep snow it is dangerous to go face forward in the soft stuff especially with a heavy pack , hard to breath with your head buried in a couple of feet of soft snow ..
                so I have developed a bit of an understanding of how this nasty event happens and how to avoid it ...
                Let's first discuss assymetric boards with set back bindings like your Head 94 ... this position like Valmorel points out causes the tail of the board to sink naturally and the tips to point upwards out of the snow ... The rider just stands in a neutral balanced position whether in firm snow or soft snow .. and in soft snow the tails default to sinking in the snow ....
                Assymetric boards cause tail drop , and set back bindings cause tail drop , combine the two and you have have a whole lot of tail drop and tips up in soft snow on short skiboards or short skis .

                Now what happens in a center mount symmetric skiboard... the rider stays in that nice neutral position in firm snow but as the snow gets soft the rider puts weight back out to the tails of the skiboard by rocking backward a bit toward their heels ... how much weight you need to put out back to keep the tips floating up and out of the snow and prevent tip dive depends a lot on speed and surface area of the board compared to the rider's weight ... the lower the speed , the less surface area for a given rider's body weight , the more weight needs to be put out to the back to keep the tips up and floating in the soft stuff and prevent tip dive.

                Expert experienced skiboarders riding center mount symmetric boards have learned how to keep their speed up and how to rock back to their heels in the soft stuff ... it becomes second nature to them ....

                For myself , although I can ride skiboards that way ... I always felt more comfortable setting my bindings back about 4cm or so in soft snow on symmetric center mount insert provided skiboards ,so that I would not need to put weight out to my tails and just ride in a nice neutral balanced position . This is easy to do on the KTP because it had rear inserts , and is easy to do with non release REceptor or Zero bindings that allow significant set back positions . Spruce used to provide a powder plate to help these set backs with the riser and of course the new Spruce long boards all have set back inserts .

                On the assymetric Sherpa ... I found that I had enough float on the big surface area board and a bit of a natural tail drop with the assymetric shape that I felt quite comfortable riding center mount.

                The Rockered Condor was a huge revelation for me .. because I am able to ride that symmetric board dead center on the inserts in both firm snow and in the very deepest pow without needing to put any weight back to the tails , it was really weird riding it at first because on the regular Condor I am so used to putting weight back to the tails of the board in deep snow when center mount or setiting back bindings 4cm ... no need on the Rockered Condor ....
                Hope this explanation helps ...

                Ps some of the folks here ride the 130 cm short ski Hagan which is an excellent example of a short ski with an assymetric shape and set back bindings which is really super in deep snow ... but like Valmorel says ,assymetrical shapes and set back bindings really change the feel of skiboards .... there really is a nice cool way that a symmetric skiboard feels when ridden center , mount , so many of the expert riders leave their skiboards center mount and just become great at varying their position backwards a bit in the deep snow to keep the tails up and prevent faceplant by riding the tails !

                Sorry for the long winded post !
                Boards :
                Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
                Boots
                K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
                Bindings:
                Zero Pro Non release Binding
                Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
                Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
                Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Bluewing,

                  If you make to Shredfest this year... I would be happy to demonstrate a proper Face plant... I think I had at least six face plants on Jack's back country day last year... and have become quite good at them!!

                  R
                  rickylink

                  ~ KTP ~ Revolts (mucho) ~ ALP/DLP ~ BCP ~ RC's ~ Blunt~ Blunt XL~ Spliff ~ Sticky ii~ Spruce LE /Osprey~ Crossbow ~ Bomber E2 Bindings / RVL8 Receptors
                  ~ Full Tilt Boots

                  ~ Your 1 ply guy



                  Big or Small I Ride them All !

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The "scorpion" is how I pictured it - that would be nasty.

                    jjue - thanks as always for the details - good stuff.

                    This coming season should be interesting for me since I will be on true skiboards in Summit 110 Customs for the first time. These do have an extra set of inserts and I have a powder plate so I can get a number of different setbacks possible, including a whopping 9cm if I want to go nuts (that puts the tail almost as short as the Head 94s). Will have to play around starting at center and then trying different setbacks to see what works for me. Hopefully, no faceplants. I had to be pretty mindful of things on the Head 94s since they are so short and I was used to that on my Rome Anthem snowboard which rewarded mistakes with quick and immediate pile driving into the mountain so I should have a good frame of mind to get it right.
                    In pursuit of Peace, Harmony and Flow.....
                    Think Like a Mountain

                    Boards ridden, some owned: Sherpas, Spruce 120 "STS", Blunts, DS110 custom prototypes, Rockered Condors, Revolts, DLPs, Summit Custom 110s, Summit Marauders, Head 94s, Raptor prototypes, Osprey prototypes.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The Rockered Condor was a huge revelation for me .. because I am able to ride that symmetric board dead center on the inserts in both firm snow and in the very deepest pow without needing to put any weight back to the tails , it was really weird riding it at first because on the regular Condor I am so used to putting weight back to the tails of the board in deep snow when center mount or setiting back bindings 4cm ... no need on the Rockered Condor ....
                      I faceplanted on the RCs, when riding with FightingForAir this year on Mt Hood. I hit a very wet patch of snow and slush. It was like cement when the tips RCs dipped underneath. There was just no chance to recover.

                      Oh well, I just rolled over and looked at it philosophically ...
                      Last edited by Greco; 10-12-2012, 01:06 PM.
                      Current: '20 Spruce Slingshot 119s, '20 Spruce Crossbow 115s, '18 Spruce Osprey 132s (touring), '21 Rvl8 SII 104s, '21 Summit Invertigos 118s
                      Also: '11 Allz Elaila 94s, '12 Rvl8 Rockered Condor 110s, '15 Spruce Osprey 132s , '18 Spruce Crossbow 115s
                      Previous: Gaspo Hot Wax 84s, Mantrax 98s, Summit Nomad 99s, Spruce Yellow 120s, Eman Uprise 104s

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ysb33r View Post
                        ,,,,

                        I faceplanted on the RCs, when riding with FightingForAir this year on Mt Hood. I hit a very wet patch of snow and slush. It was like cement when the tips RCs dipped underneath. There was just no chance to recover.

                        Oh well, I just rolled over and looked at it philosophically ...
                        Ysb33r , thanks for that report .. you are quite correct . that the RC does not necessarily prevent Faceplants
                        I also have faceplanted on the RC myself as well !
                        In fact , another important point is that the longer the skiboard the more fore and aft stability there is , and the more forgiving they are ... If a longboard skiboard has set back bindings or is assymetric that makes them even more error tolerant ... the longer the skiboard the more the momentum of the board will carry it through variable snow , and the less of the sudden start and stop effect there is ... amongst all the skiboards I have ridden .. the least likely to cause a faceplant that I have ever ridden was a Sherpa with set back bindings .. but comfort is not everything .. I like the mobility of the shorter skiboards , the manuverability and feel of a center mount skiboard and will put up with a little more propensity for face planting as a trade off.

                        I think the most important thing is finding one skiboard and binding position that suits you and then get a lot of practice in variable snow and pow so that how you adjust your body balance on the fly becomes instinctual with that particular board and binding position . I like settling in on one skiboard and one binding position as my ride of choice and then just ride it in all conditions all the time ..
                        Boards :
                        Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
                        Boots
                        K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
                        Bindings:
                        Zero Pro Non release Binding
                        Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                        Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
                        Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
                        Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jjue View Post
                          The Rockered Condor was a huge revelation for me .. because I am able to ride that symmetric board dead center on the inserts in both firm snow and in the very deepest pow without needing to put any weight back to the tails , it was really weird riding it at first because on the regular Condor I am so used to putting weight back to the tails of the board in deep snow when center mount or setiting back bindings 4cm ... no need on the Rockered Condor ....
                          Hope this explanation helps ...
                          i think that is what was jacking me up last year. i'm so used to having to weighting down my tails i was doing it on the RC's. when you do that you end up on your butt. i just need more pow/riding time on them. its so strange riding a skiboard upright in powder. i'm so used to riding backseat in pow it's a hard transition.

                          matt

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by matthew View Post
                            i think that is what was jacking me up last year. i'm so used to having to weighting down my tails i was doing it on the RC's. when you do that you end up on your butt. i just need more pow/riding time on them. its so strange riding a skiboard upright in powder. i'm so used to riding backseat in pow it's a hard transition.

                            matt
                            Yes Matt, I think in some ways folks who are not used to riding pow on skiboards have an easier time initially on the Rockered Condor then we experienced skiboarders. I too fell right on my butt quite a few times initially on the RC because I was so used to riding the regular Condors off the tails, your body just naturally goes into that position in pow .. ... now after a whole season in pow and variable snow, it feels so natural to ride at speed and balanced in a neutral upright postion on the Rockered Condors that I am afraid to go back to the regular Condor in deep pow , it would probably screw me up and I would be face planting all over the place
                            Boards :
                            Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
                            Boots
                            K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
                            Bindings:
                            Zero Pro Non release Binding
                            Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                            Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
                            Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
                            Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jjue View Post
                              Yes Matt, I think in some ways folks who are not used to riding pow on skiboards have an easier time initially on the Rockered Condor then we experienced skiboarders. I too fell right on my butt quite a few times initially on the RC because I was so used to riding the regular Condors off the tails, your body just naturally goes into that position in pow .. ... now after a whole season in pow and variable snow, it feels so natural to ride at speed and balanced in a neutral upright postion on the Rockered Condors that I am afraid to go back to the regular Condor in deep pow , it would probably screw me up and I would be face planting all over the place
                              this is what i'm hoping ill get there this season. that way i can use them to there full potential. any advice on breaking this habit or is it just time on the boards?

                              matt

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X