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  • Applying Ski techniques to Skiboarding

    With the recent spell of dry weather here in Tahoe , I have had a lot of practice pure carving on my Condors . As a life long skier , I have been concentrating on taking those parts of ski technique that work for skiboards and transferring the ski skills to my skiboarding . Here are a few tips I found useful from my riding today ..
    The first is the importance of a " stacked body position " and the position of your hands into a turn and as you transition into another turn . As skiers we learned this with poles but it is actually easier to understand without poles and transfers directly into how we can use our hands in skiboarding . Today I concentrated on my hand position and as in this video i was leading with my downhill hand and my outside heavier weighted downhill skiboard. while my inside hand was down and lower on my lighter inside skiboard , during transitions hands come up and are equal ...


    The other important technique I was practicing is what is called in skiing ,the phantom move ... this is a deliberate lightening of the inner , uphill skiboard and turning on the outside downhill or stance skiboard , it is essentially a one foot turn with most of the weight on the downhill stance skiboard and the retraction of the inside skiboard helping to initate the proper position into the turn ..

    http://www.harbskisystems.com/olk1.htm

    here is a drill
    http://www.harbskisystems.com/olg4.htm

    and a video ..




    These techniques are a little different from the lower wider two foot powerful turns that the skiboard pros make on their videos and are well suited to old dudes like me wanting to save their legs. My turns on the Condor tend to be a bit taller and stance narrower and more one foot carves going from one weighted downhill skiboard to the other .
    It may actually look like I am doing two foot carves . but I am doing a subtle phantom move with lightening of my inside leg and powerful turning motion on my outside leg to initate and hold the turn on steep icy slopes. One leg is resting as the other is doing all the work in holding the carve. I have maximum weight on the that one stance leg to hold pressure on the carve.... works very well ..

    Learning from skiers and ski instructional videos can be useful to help fine tune our poleless skiboard technique. In another post .. I will explore how I use an imaginary pole plant to help with skiboarding without poles in steeps and moguls ..

    By the way many of the japanese skiboard pros are also pro twintip skiers and their instructional videos are heavily laden with ski technique ... If you watch the japanese instructional carving video .. you will see them teaching the carve with a heavy emphasis on the downhill weighted skiboard doing the work as a mechanism to learn proper carving technique
    you can also see how they unweight the inside skiboard as they turn -- phantom move .. watch their body position and see the "stacked body position" described above in their skiboarding ..


    Boards :
    Spliffs
    Condors
    Slingshots
    Sherpa

    Boot:
    K2 BFC 100

    Bindings:
    Zero Pro Non release Binding
    Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
    Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
    Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

  • #2
    Why the Rocket is easier to carve then the Condor ....

    In this next section , I want to discuss a bit about skiboard width and carving . First , let's understand a bit about carving . Carving a skiboard is all about tipping the skiboard up on edge , bending the skiboard onto its waist and then allowing the skiboard to follow the turn shape built into the skiboard design ..... If you do not tip the skiboard over then you will skid the skiboard and skiboards being short will feel squirrley




    Our goal in carving skiboards is to have the skiboards have nice round arcs in the snow carving rather than skidding ... skidding is a very useful technique in skiboards that I will explore in another post .. but I consider it a special technique , and the most import technique to first develop is the skiboard linked carve .. going from carve to carve.. this is the basic and most import technique in skiboarding


    The narrower the skiboard the easier it is to tip the skiboard over and get the proper edge angles , the wider the skiboard the more effort it is to get the proper edge angles. For example on my narrow Line Bullet , I only have to just tip my boot slightly even when going slow and on a flattish slope and that narrow skiboard goes right over on its edge ... it is very easy to get both boards right on edge and make nice two footed carves. Try that very minimal movement on the Condor and especially if you try to make a double footed turn and you will have problems , nothing will happen and the board will kind of just wobble . Greco places the Condor into the realm of experienced skiboarders and it is primarily this issue with getting the board on edge that makes this board a little more difficult .. On the Rocket getting the edge angle is easier then the Revolt and Alp and those are easier in turn then the KTP and the Condor .

    Ok what helps with getting the proper edge angles in skiboards... the answer is dynamic , powerful turns with speed , speed and being more aggressive gets the riders body weight out and more angled and allows the fat skiboards to get the proper edge angles with less work

    watch this explanation of dynamic turns and see what I mean ...


    also watch the pictures of Revel8 pros making fast dynamic two footed turns on Condors or KTP's and you can see that the way they ride their boards allows them to get right up on the edges and carve and not skid the fat boards

    So what to do if you are a lazy old geezer like me . If I make dynamic two footed turns on the Condors like Adam Lynam does on firm steep slopes , I will rapidly burn out my quads and need to head straight off to the Bar for a stiff drink .. For me the lazy way is the way ... put almost all my weight on the downhill skiboard ... that gives me maximum edge control and lets the up hill leg rest in the turn ... watch the japanese carving video and see how they teach beginners with all the weight on the downhill skiboard and the uphill skiboard doing nothing ..later when they make two footed turns they still are weighting more the downhill skiboard.. the uphill skiboard is on the snow but less weighted . ...

    In the lazy geezer way of skiboarding the fat boards ... dynamic , high speed aggressive wide track two foot turns are not the key , the key is having the skiboards closer together and depending on obtaining the proper edge angles by using the phantom move (lightening the inside skiboard ) , weighting the outside skiboard , and using some angulation in the knees. ...

    Lazy old dude relaxing on Condor
    (check out the first part of this video where I am carving on the Condor )



    In skiboarding a wider athletic dynamic lower two footed stance is the norm and is the stance most of our pros use and most of our skilled young riders use ... I , instead, use more of a narrower skier type , more upright stance .... here are some of the background about how a narrower stance helps us old geezers .... be careful , though , if you are riding with a narrower stance and are not careful those big damn Condors will slide one right over the other and throw you right down !!

    http://www.breakthroughonskis.com/Pa...ruction09.html

    http://www.breakthroughonskis.com/Pa...ruction10.html

    http://www.breakthroughonskis.com/Pa...ruction22.html

    http://www.breakthroughonskis.com/Pa...ruction23.html
    Boards :
    Spliffs
    Condors
    Slingshots
    Sherpa

    Boot:
    K2 BFC 100

    Bindings:
    Zero Pro Non release Binding
    Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
    Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
    Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

    Comment


    • #3
      jjue,

      This has been an extremely informative thread for a skiing/skiboarding newbie such as I. Thank you!

      Looking at your "lazy geezer" carving on the Condors, I noticed that you slide the uphill ski slightly forward compared to the downhill ski. Is there a reason for that?

      Comment


      • #4
        Nice post Jack!! A lot of good information here.

        Wendell
        Now: 08 Sherpa's (2), Atomic 120's, 2013 125 Protos, 125 LEs, 2014 Sherpas, Osprey protos, 2015 Blunt XL's, 2016 Ospreys, Ethan Too twintip skis,2017 Shredfest One of kind Spliffs, 2018 Crossbows
        Bindings: Spruce Risers and Tyrolia LD12's
        Boots: Full Tilt Booters, Tecnica Agent 110
        History: Atomic shorty's, Sporten, Groove Taxis, Head 94's, ALPs, Spruce 120 Blue boards, Custom Lacroixs, Rocker Condors, 08 Summit 110's, Hagan offlimits 133's, Rossi 130's, 2011 Summit Marauders

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by snowhow View Post
          jjue,

          This has been an extremely informative thread for a skiing/skiboarding newbie such as I. Thank you!

          Looking at your "lazy geezer" carving on the Condors, I noticed that you slide the uphill ski slightly forward compared to the downhill ski. Is there a reason for that?
          yes , this is called a inside foot tip lead and is useful in skiboarding foot to foot .. let me explain it this way
          in the style of riding in which most of the weight is put on the outside skiborad as the turn happens the inside foot is just naturally slid slightly forward of the outside downhill skiboard , it has much less weight on it and the edging is done the little toe side of your boot while the downhill ski is edging on the big toe side... because the inside foot is slightly ahead , the next turn is initiated by tipping the leading inside ski to its big toe side . the skiboard naturally comes around and becomes the new downhill skiboard and the old downhill skiboard now becomes the new uphill skiboard and is slid forward as the turn happens ...

          if you watch the japanese pro skiboarders carving their skiboards at the very beginning of this video you will see them doing this lead change as well ...they carve in a very skier like fluid carving style moving from one inside leg leading to the other inside leg leading with more weight on the downhill skiboard .

          Boards :
          Spliffs
          Condors
          Slingshots
          Sherpa

          Boot:
          K2 BFC 100

          Bindings:
          Zero Pro Non release Binding
          Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
          Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
          Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

          Comment


          • #6
            doing this brings the shoulders around square to the fall line, which is the correct dynamic position
            Rockered Condors/Bomber Elite 2's
            Spruce 125LE's/Tyrolia attack 13 bindings

            Comment


            • #7
              Might sticky this G in the new to skiboarding area.

              Nice stuff Jack!
              C U N DA SNOW!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by graeme View Post
                doing this brings the shoulders around square to the fall line, which is the correct dynamic position
                This posture is the ideal. It's really hard to stick to when you are on a really steep hill where you can't face down hill for fear of going too fast. In this kind of situation, I find my boards almost perpendicular to the fall line to check my speed. This can also happen in big moguls where pointing them down hill just generates too much speed to stay in control. So I'm sliding my tails or the entire board in these situations.

                Wendell
                Now: 08 Sherpa's (2), Atomic 120's, 2013 125 Protos, 125 LEs, 2014 Sherpas, Osprey protos, 2015 Blunt XL's, 2016 Ospreys, Ethan Too twintip skis,2017 Shredfest One of kind Spliffs, 2018 Crossbows
                Bindings: Spruce Risers and Tyrolia LD12's
                Boots: Full Tilt Booters, Tecnica Agent 110
                History: Atomic shorty's, Sporten, Groove Taxis, Head 94's, ALPs, Spruce 120 Blue boards, Custom Lacroixs, Rocker Condors, 08 Summit 110's, Hagan offlimits 133's, Rossi 130's, 2011 Summit Marauders

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by wjeong View Post
                  This posture is the ideal. It's really hard to stick to when you are on a really steep hill where you can't face down hill for fear of going too fast. In this kind of situation, I find my boards almost perpendicular to the fall line to check my speed. This can also happen in big moguls where pointing them down hill just generates too much speed to stay in control. So I'm sliding my tails or the entire board in these situations.

                  Wendell
                  agreed!

                  Like the article foot to foot... I use that, it also gives your legs a rest.
                  again, good stuff Jack!
                  C U N DA SNOW!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jjue View Post
                    yes , this is called a inside foot tip lead and is useful in skiboarding foot to foot .. let me explain it this way
                    in the style of riding in which most of the weight is put on the outside skiborad as the turn happens the inside foot is just naturally slid slightly forward of the outside downhill skiboard , it has much less weight on it and the edging is done the little toe side of your boot while the downhill ski is edging on the big toe side... because the inside foot is slightly ahead , the next turn is initiated by tipping the leading inside ski to its big toe side . the skiboard naturally comes around and becomes the new downhill skiboard and the old downhill skiboard now becomes the new uphill skiboard and is slid forward as the turn happens ...
                    It looks so controlled and effortless when you do it. I'll definitely try it out next time I go skiing/skiboarding. Thank you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      soft edge side slipping

                      Here is another tip I posted on another thread .. when faced with a steep icy slope , especially if it is narrow . and when it is difficult to get an edge .. the idea is to do a soft edge .. just enough to pivot your skiboards around and then do a series of controlled slides instead of trying to edge... this is very similar to what snowboarders do in their "falling leaf" turn .. this is a super useful turn .. the Condor is amazingly good at this kind of turn because of the tremendous surface area underfoot .. and using this turn is an essential technique in understanding how to get the wide bodied flexy Condor to work on ice .. but is useful for all skiboards..... this a technique that works just as well on skiboards as skis...poles are not necessary for doing this technique

                      Boards :
                      Spliffs
                      Condors
                      Slingshots
                      Sherpa

                      Boot:
                      K2 BFC 100

                      Bindings:
                      Zero Pro Non release Binding
                      Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                      Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
                      Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        "So what to do if you are a lazy old geezer like me . If I make dynamic two footed turns on the Condors like Adam Lynam does on firm steep slopes , I will rapidly burn out my quads and need to head straight off to the Bar for a stiff drink .. For me the lazy way is the way ... put almost all my weight on the downhill skiboard ... that gives me maximum edge control and lets the up hill leg rest in the turn ... watch the japanese carving video and see how they teach beginners with all the weight on the downhill skiboard and the uphill skiboard doing nothing ..later when they make two footed turns they still are weighting more the downhill skiboard.. the uphill skiboard is on the snow but less weighted . ..."

                        This is great advice. Skiing from one leg to the other saves a huge amount of energy. If you want see for yourself, just try the difference between walking and covering the same distance with bunny hops.

                        Comment

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