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  • RVL8 Playmakers (vs Spliffs)

    Got my hands on my new pair of Playmakers last week, and wow - I love these boards!

    I was prepared for there to be a bit of an adjustment period in switching over from the Spliffs I usually ride; I had never tried any fully rockered gear until now, so didn't really know what to expect. Three turns down my first run, I was convinced. What a ride! The full rocker puts the pivot point right underfoot, and makes them turn on a dime. They showed up sharp and made short work of the crustier snow I ran into. Conditions were pretty mixed overall - no real ice but we've had a week or two of warm weather followed by a bit of cold, and a little fresh snow. Ran into everything from windswept, crusty chutes to deep pockets of blown in snow. The PMs handled transitions between conditions even better than my Spliffs do.... they're very forgiving. How forgiving? I managed to goof up when I mounted the bindings late the night before and rode the first 3 runs with a 4 cm offset between my two feet. Ooops...

    Speaking of the binding mounting options, having dual 4 x 4 mounting blocks is a sweet option. I dial my bindings (Receptors) far back on my cambered boards (DLPs, Spliffs) to maximize tip float in powder, but started the Playmakers with the boot and binding plate in a centred position, expecting to do some messing around throughout the day. Other than correcting the rear-position mount on the erroneous board, I didn't change a thing. These are the first board I've enjoyed with my boots actually set slightly forward of centre (tip to front of boot was 1 cm less than tail to back of boot). The big rocker keeps them from diving in soft snow, and I rarely if ever caught myself riding backseat to compensate. They're super well-balanced.

    There were a couple of "negative" differences that stood out between the Playmakers and the Spliffs - and they're not really negative, just things I had to adjust to after spending 95% of my time on Spliffs for the last 5 seasons. The first was that the lack of camber made them a lot less springy than my Spliffs. This was somewhat noticeable when cruising through the whoopy up-and-down sections along ridgeline, and when touching down on very small jumps, and came more into play when blasting down single-black runs with small moguls or crud at high speed. In the latter case, I think I use my tails as springs to bounce across the tops of bumps and pop over obstacles. With the PMs, it felt like more of a slide and was a little less dynamic and grippy than I was used to. It didn't really cause any issues, but I'll have to adjust to it a bit.

    The second difference was more surprising... I've gotten very used to slarving through all sorts of ugly conditions when ripping groomers on my Spliffs, and the PMs were grabbing a bit in the tails when I tried to ride them in a similar way. The conditions were what you get after a hard base gets a little fresh snow and then gets chewed up by intermediate skiers all day; large icy patches with softer mini-moguls piled up between. Slarve and slam conditions! I would have expected the full rocker to make them slarving machines, but they did better when kept on edge. I think this was mostly a matter of tuning, as the edges were nice and sharp and haven't seen the rock action that my Spliffs have. I might manually detune the middle portion tails a bit, or just wait for wear and tear to take care of it. Or I could just slow down a bit, enjoy making turns and not ride like a complete speed-freak jackass on the roller-filled jerry highway that is Wiley Coyote.... nah!

    Those sharp edges and quick pivots did make them amazing for slashing down tight, difficult chutes... they feel like they are going to have the control factor and precision of my DLPs with better-than-Spliff rideout capacity in deep powder, crud and mixed conditions. I'll post some updates as I get more days on them.



    One more thing... here's what they look like in action!

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  • #2
    Excellent review and nice video ! I was quite intrigued by the Spliffs for the last couple of years, but it looks like I might like these even more, too bad they're already sold out. How would you say they fare vs the DLPs ?
    Myself: RVL8 2011 KTP, Spruce 125 LE, RVL8 "Drooling Clouds" RCs, Spruce 2016 Osprey
    Daughter: Twoowt Pirania 95cm; RVL8 2015 Blunt XL; RVL8 2021 SII; Spruce Crossbows
    Past: RVL8 2010 Revolt Trees, RVL8 2014 Condor, RVL8 2009 ALPdors, Spruce 120 Yellow/Red

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    • #3
      The SBOL site currently says Playmakers are at 'Few Left' (I previously saw them sold out, too), so you might be in luck!

      If you've seen some of my Spliff vs. DLP reviews, you might recall that I love the precision that the DLPs bring in difficult conditions. Playmakers bring this type of precision or maybe even better... the rocker really puts the action directly underfoot and allows you to stick turns and hops exactly where you want. I've found the natural habitat of these boards, and it's pretty much the same places you'll find mountain goats:



      Beyond that, they're a very, very different ride than DLPs, especially on groomers and fast hardpack (i.e. steep blues and blacks). DLPs are amazing at high speed and shred hardpack, and the full camber gives them a lot of spring and a feeling of length, even though they're still quick on the turns. They also soak up big landings well, whereas I really notice the impact of landing on hard surfaces with Playmakers. I'll have to get both out on the same day when conditions permit to do a better comparison, but the PMs are way more squirrely at speed.

      I've done a little more observation (and video review) on PMs, and realized why I don't feel as good ripping groomer-ish runs on them... there's an insane amount of speed wobble on your least-weighted board when you let loose. Makes total sense given the design of the board, so it's not a flaw, but it's something to consider if that's the kind of riding you like to do. They do carve very nicely on good corduroy and could be a decent groomer board if you stick to greens and blues in reasonably soft conditions. I get some speed wobble on my Spliffs, but it's a fraction of what it is on the PMs.

      For my particular mountain and riding style, I could see the PMs largely replacing DLPs in my quiver, except during major snow droughts or freeze/thaw cycles (rare in the alpine, but can happen on the lower mountain). I still love my DLPs for what they do, and will likely keep them, but as long as I've got sharp edges on the Playmakers they should fill the need for a precision tool on steep hardpack. There's a bit of a tradeoff between quick turns and stability, but they both do the job on the double-blacks.

      I took my Spliffs out this morning and switched to PMs in the afternoon; I think I like the PMs better as an all-condition big mountain board, and the Spliffs better for good condition speed runs. Also realized how bad I need to sharpen my Spliffs, they're dull as a butter knife. I also think I'll try riding my Spliffs with the bindings a little more centred, instead of full backseat. I've yet to try my Playmakers in real deep powder, but expect they'll outperform the Spliffs there, so it should be less necessary.

      Out of the three boards, I'd still be most likely to put one of my skier friends on Spliffs first if there was any sort of powder around, and DLPs if there wasn't. Playmakers feel like a skiboarder's skiboard to me, if that makes sense.



      PS to Greco: LOVE the graphics on the 2022 Playmakers... since this run sold out quickly and doesn't actually have a date as part of the graphics, I vote to keep the graphics for another run or at least make next year's version equally badass. They get a lot more attention, respect and inquiries than my 2019 Spliffs do, and IMHO fit the image of a serious skiboard for serious riders.
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      • #4
        I realized this December that in the French Alps it's very likely that you end up on hardpack, with a certain amount of ice underneath, no matter what time of the winter. I don't live close to the mountains, so if I'm lucky I might get some soft snow, but many times it's not the case. This December, even when it snowed for a couple of days, it turned into some sort of rain and next morning most runs were hard, even if not complete ice, but that kind of shiny, really solid hardpack.
        I also realized I like rockered boards more, my everyday are the LE125, and they go over or through everything, I could use them in complete wipeout, vaguely seeing where I'm going, but not over what I'm going, and they are not fazed by anything, no loss of balance going over piles of crud or soft, getting onto icier patches, small bumps or whatever, they handle it with ease.
        I have a pair of new Alps that I got during the covid lockdown and didn't got to ride yet, and I was wondering if PMs or Spliffs - both being rockered - would not be a more interesting option, but given the conditions I get, I'll always need a dedicated carving groomers & hardpack board, which DLPs/ALps seem to be.
        Thanks a lot for you insight, it's very useful and your vids are always great to watch !
        Myself: RVL8 2011 KTP, Spruce 125 LE, RVL8 "Drooling Clouds" RCs, Spruce 2016 Osprey
        Daughter: Twoowt Pirania 95cm; RVL8 2015 Blunt XL; RVL8 2021 SII; Spruce Crossbows
        Past: RVL8 2010 Revolt Trees, RVL8 2014 Condor, RVL8 2009 ALPdors, Spruce 120 Yellow/Red

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        • #5
          Always happy to give some input! Sounds like you'll have fun on those ALPs. I really love riding my DLPs but Kicking Horse rarely gives me the conditions that makes them really shine (our grooming program is nearly non-existent, and there's usually some pow around if you look hard enough).

          Now, getting back to the Playmakers... I'm starting to suspect that these dang things are actually made out of mountain goat hooves. They're precision tools at sticking your line when the going gets ugly:
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Steeps View Post
            Now, getting back to the Playmakers... I'm starting to suspect that these dang things are actually made out of mountain goat hooves. They're precision tools at sticking your line when the going gets ugly
            You're definitely onto something here, as only mountain goats would call where you've been in this video a "line"
            Myself: RVL8 2011 KTP, Spruce 125 LE, RVL8 "Drooling Clouds" RCs, Spruce 2016 Osprey
            Daughter: Twoowt Pirania 95cm; RVL8 2015 Blunt XL; RVL8 2021 SII; Spruce Crossbows
            Past: RVL8 2010 Revolt Trees, RVL8 2014 Condor, RVL8 2009 ALPdors, Spruce 120 Yellow/Red

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            • #7
              This review by Steeps of the Playmakers really got me curious to try a pair . Last season I spent my entire season on Condors (original cambered versions) and loved them both at the resort and in the backcountry. I was curious what I would make of the Playmakers and got myself a pair of the new Revolt Sei Graphic version for 2023. Today I had a great opportunity to test them out during opening weekend at Kirkwood . This is the best early season conditions we have had in a long time with the mountain open to the top of the Cornice chair and lots of terrain open . Conditions included unbroken fresh powder, broken powder , sun affected crusty snow , nice groomers , icy groomers, and lots of steep moguls . There was also tight trees with fresh powder. The Playmakers were absolutely fantastic as an all mountain , all condition board!
              When the Rockered Condor came out many folks suggested Greco make a stiffer version with a bit less rocker to make the board a more versatile all condition board. When the Blunt XL came out , many folks suggested that Greco make a XXL version more in line with the size and specs of the Condors to give it more float in deep powder. For me the Playmaker really meets both of those requests. It has the wonderful float of the Rockered Condor and the versatility of the Blunt Xl in all conditions . It's Condor like size and the Blunt xl like less severe rocker gives it really nice float in deep powder . Like the Blunt Xl the less severe rocker compared to the RC lets you ride the board with less need to be directly centered on the board at all timesand you can weight the tails. The Playmaker is stiffer feeling then the Blunt XL and for sure compared to the Rockered Condor or even the regular Condors and ploughs through broken crud without being deflected off line . I feel really very secure and stable on the Playmaker and it is super manuverable and easy to turn . The rocker lets me even lean forward without feeling like I am going to catch a tip and go over the handlebars.
              I ride the Playmaker set back about 3 cm with my custom touring binding modified receptor bindings which I have placed on the center inserts.
              On firm snow the stiffness of the Playmaker makes it hold an edge nicely and carve nicely . I have found that I carve better with the Playmakers if I put almost all my weight on one board and pretty much completely unweight the other board. I do like the way the cambered Condor or Spliffs carve on firm snow but it is not an extreme preference and I certainly would be completely happy with the Playmaker as my sole board at the resort and in the backcountry. This board is a winner and I love the new graphics!
              Boards :
              Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
              Boots
              K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
              Bindings:
              Zero Pro Non release Binding
              Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
              Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
              Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
              Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

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              • #8
                Thanks for sharing your first impressions Jack. I feel the same way. If I could have only one pair, it would be the Playmaker.

                Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

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                • #9
                  The Playmaker completely changed my approach to riding last season, and got me into (and out of) all sorts of trouble that I wouldn't have been able to tackle on my other boards. Spliffs will still outperform them (my opinion) in terms of forgiveness, top speed and comfort on groomers or in trashed-out powder conditions, but that comes with a bit of sloppiness in the ride and less dependability in those stick-it-or-die scenarios.

                  They're a great option for any seasoned skiboarder looking to up their game. Glad to see that the old graphics are back along with the Sei option. The red and black original got a lot of attention on the hill last year. I bring my boards in when riding the gondola, so I get a lot of opportunity to talk about the sport with other riders.
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                  • #10
                    How does the tail support of the Playmakers compare with Spliffs and DLPs? I love the feeling of tail support that I get from DLPs but when I was riding Spliffs I always found myself wanting a bit more. Not sure if it was because of the flex or the rocker profile. I could see the Playmakers going either way since they are very stiff but have a lot of rocker. What has been your experience with tail support?

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                    • #11
                      I'd be interested to hear what Steeps thinks but I felt the tail support on the Playmaker similar to the DLP and a tad more than the Spliffs in soft snow

                      Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk

                      Boards :
                      Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
                      Boots
                      K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
                      Bindings:
                      Zero Pro Non release Binding
                      Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                      Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
                      Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
                      Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I am curious as well. I think I'm going to give the Playmakers a try, they have some aspects that I was trying to get away from when switching from Spliffs to DLPs (width and rocker), but it seems like the stiffness may compensate to some degree and they will complement my DLPs well. I'll let y'all know how it goes.

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                        • #13
                          I spent all day yesterday alternating between riding DLPs and Playmakers so I'll add my 2 cents to the comparison here. Conditions were very wet, heavy, dense snow (it was raining) and patches of yellowish ice mixed in here and there. Not like spring slush riding at all, much harder snow. Take these observations with a grain of salt because I was also riding in new boots which were giving me problems all day and making it difficult to tell what the boards were doing.

                          Overall the Playmakers absolutely reek of performance and power. I found them to be quite tiring to ride and difficult to get on edge at first until I adjusted my riding style. They are like polar opposites to DLPs and even quite different from Spliffs in terms of "feel". Honestly I hated them on my first run, but by the end of the day I was enjoying them more than my DLPs depsite the conditions probably being more favorable to the DLPs. I agree 110% with Steep's statement that the Playmaker is "a skiboarder's skiboard". I certainly would not put any of my skier friends on them to introduce them to skiboarding, I don't think they would like them. They require drastically different technique than skis, but the available performance envelope once you figure it out is huge.

                          Flex - Much stiffer than Spliffs. Stiffness is on par with KTPs I would say, very stiff but not unreasonable. They do still bend a bit (not that they really need to being zero camber). The torsional rigidity is exceptional, better than any other board or ski I have ridden.

                          Tail support - Much better than Spliffs, on par with DLPs. It does feel different though. The Playmaker tail support is like doing a trust fall with a good friend that likes to mess with you. They always catch you, but they'll let you fall a couple extra inches before they do just to make you nervous. Overall I was very satisfied with the Playmaker tail support.

                          Edge grip - More grip than Spliffs in my opinion. Take more effort to get them on edge and a lot of force to dig in, but when you do, the torsional rigidity of the boards really comes into play and bites hard. I would say the "available" grip is on par with DLPs, but it is harder to "access" that grip because it requires more force from your legs.

                          Stability - Hard to say which is more stable. They Playmakers are great at floating/plowing right over whatever is in your way, but they do have a good amount of speed wobble when you get going fast. I remember the Spliffs being this way too but I did not get to ride them side by side with the Playmakers. DLPs track better and feel more stable at speed, but depending on the conditions, I might want to be on Playmakers regardless so I don't get tossed or hung up by any unexpected bumps/obstacles in the snow.

                          Carving/Turning - The larger turn radius of the Playmakers is definitely noticeable. They carve great as long as you get up to speed and really dig in. One thing I noticed is that the Playmakers absolutely do not like to be driven from the back seat. They kind of get a mind of their own when you do that (this was the problem I was having on my first few runs). You definitely have to be at least centered, or ideally lean forward a bit to get the Playmakers to listen to you. Once you do that, they carve as good or better than the Spliffs, just with a larger radius. For a beginner or someone more relaxed/less aggressive, the Spliffs would be easier to carve with because it doesn't take as much force to get them on edge and the smaller radius means you don't have to go as fast. The Playmakers do flat spins easier, although this is to be expected because of the zero camber.

                          Ease of Use - The Spliffs win in this category for sure. They feel lighter on the feet, get on edge easier, have a more mellow flex, and are more tolerant of different stances. The Playmakers are a bit of an acquired taste, but in my opinion the available performance envelope is higher, which can be worth it for some folks.

                          Float - Can't say, didn't get a chance to ride the Playmakers in deep snow yet. I suspect they will do better than the Spliffs because of their increased width and rocker.

                          Overall I am pretty surprised, I half expected to dislike these boards and swap them out for some Condors instead. They are definitely interesting and I'm excited to ride them more in some different conditions. I have the black graphics and they look amazing in person. They attract a lot of attention in lift lines too, it is very very obvious that they are not snowblades, so people are curious about "what kind of skis" they are.

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                          • #14
                            I really enjoyed the playmakers, until I got into some steep and deep moguls. At that point I wanted the more flexible board


                            Sent from Tom via TapATalk

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                            • #15
                              Good point-by-point summary , mhealey.... I agree with you on pretty much all of it.

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