Touring Bindings

[Steeps]

I'm finally going to bite the bullet and get into some touring gear this year. Tried on a few pairs of boots yesterday, and found one or two that fit (just need to find a better deal, now... this stuff is pricey).

Before I commit to boots, I want to make sure I've got my head around the binding systems. Since I ride exclusively with Receptors on the mountain, I'm looking for a binding that will come as close as possible to that rigid, locked-in feeling and as little chance of unintended releases as possible. I do understand that having some release ability is going to be important, especially in case of an avalanche, but I'd like to avoid it in all but the worst or wipeouts otherwise.

I think this is putting me firmly in the world of tech bindings rather than downhill-style hybrids, probably something like the G3 Ion 12? Crampon compatibility would be a plus. Anyone have any recommendations?

I admire Jack's inventiveness on his setups, but Bert's been spearheading getting some carbon fibre conversion plates made locally. They should be customizable to any binding, provided I find the binding first!

[jjue]

Hi Steeps, I am really happy that you will have some carbon fibre conversion plates made for your RVL8 insert boards that will allow you to choose any alpine touring binding to mount.
I do think you have some special needs that are different from skiers or powder oriented skiboarders. Basically you are an aggressive skiboarder , used to riding non release bindings , with a very rigid connection of binding to board . The worse choice for you will be a binding that pre releases prematurely when you don't want to . With skiboards ridden aggressively I have found that traditional touring tech bindings like the original Dynafit are subject to pre release when ridden with skiboards or short skis in terrain that has chunky variable snow or icy or firm snow . It got so bad that I rode
with the toe locked out to prevent dangerous pre release. I think with your type of extreme riding style you want a touring binding that will prevent unwanted pre release yet allow you ride the binding not locked out which basically obviates the release ability in avalances or extreme wipe outs. Things to look for are bindings with some elasticity in the toe to allow the binding not to pre release in the toe , also a firm heel connecps tion will be important to how the binding feels to you riding as the standard pin connection in the rear of traditional tech bindings can give kind of a sloppy feel to driving the heel of the binding like you are used to in the receptors. Some bindings you might want to look at are the Marker Kingpin 13 or Dynafit rotation 14. Check out this link about backcountry bindings.:
https://www.switchbacktravel.com/bes...y-ski-bindings

ps another issue is that the boards you ride are very wide and many touring bindings will not have brakes or crampons that fit and you may need to look into that problem as well before purchasing !
Also when you are up on a riser crampons may be less efficient . By the way I have moved on to strap on crampons for my skiboards rather then binding attached crampons .br
This one works really well
https://www.skincleats.com/new-produ...ats-claws-pair
I have the 130 version that fits my Condors and Spliffs.
Let me know if you have other questions. Your needs are going to be unique !

ps. this is a helpful list of touring binding brake widths available
https://skimo.co/product/search?search=brakes
you will need a 130mm wide break for your playmaker and spliff , the only bindings that have such a wide break available looks like G3 zed and dynafit radical st.
of those two I like the g3 zed that has a new gapless heel pin piece that allows better connection and feel at the heel vs the traditional gap with pins in the back that leads to kind of a loose feel in the heel on heel thrusting especially on firm snow on skiboards
The Marker kingpin has up to a 125 mm brake which would fit the Spliff but probably not the Playmaker.
All the other touring bindings have only up to 120 mm wide brakes and would not work on your playmaker .
You could go with a tech binding with a leash which would open up your choices . .

speaking of conversion plates. I do recommend that the plate have some sort of shock absorbing padding on the bottom like the Receptor bindings do rather then just a rigid plate directly bolted to the board . I think the rubber shock absorbing pad on the bottom of the receptor binding helps with some of the vibration and the shock on the tech bindings mounted to the conversion plate . Skiboards being short , I think transmit more vibration and stress on the bindings vs a long ski which by its length tends to absorb some of the shock more . I think that is one reason I had such a problem with tech bindings direct mounted on short skis in firm icy snow and moguls.

[Steeps]

Heh, looks like I opened threads in the wrong order... just posted in Kelmarit's thread. Thought about the rubber pad there after your flex comment! Hadn't really crossed my mind before that, but I'll point it out to our maker (https://exegi.ca/). I'm going to give him a standard Receptor setup on a Spliff to look at.

Thanks a bunch on binding recommendations! I remember reading your reviews on the Skeats and will keep those in mind as a crampon option. I hadn't thought through the mechanics of using a binding-mounted crampon with the extra height... need one with extra-long teeth! The Skeats are well priced and I don't often hear the local touring community talking about crampons, so they should be more than sufficient.

I'm not too concerned about brakes - they'd be nice for the odd time I'm riding this binding system on resort (i.e. when taking multiple friends out skiboarding and facing a binding shortage), but for actual backcountry use I'll be properly leashed for once. I wouldn't trust the brakes to prevent a board from disappearing in powder on the type of terrain and conditions I'm likely to be riding, and they're a bit of extra weight that I'd rather put towards beefier bindings.

Will check out those binding options, and I'm glad to hear that 12 is not the limit for DIN settings. I had assumed that pin-style heels may have been more secure than a downhill style heel, so thanks for the heads up on that!

[Kelmarit]

Hey, So I have a vested interest in this as I am designing custom "spruce type" risers with the hole pattern for G3 zeds/ions.
Can you get me in touch with the gentleman designing the carbon fiber risers? I would like to speak with him regarding his set up and if there is a possible collaboration to be made here.

I expect to be able to produce a working prototype of my "touring riser" in a couple weeks.
This touring riser will also have a cutout for crampons.

[Steeps]

Contact info should be on his site above - but he's an elusive beast and contact can be sporadic. I've been trying to get a board to him for a while now.

I'm on the G3 bandwagon for now as I bought some Ion 12s at the ski swap for $150. It's cheap enough to upgrade later if needed (hopefully they're in good working condition - they look like they've seen some days out). Snagged a used pair of G3 carbon fibre touring poles for $50 at a different ski shop sale, so I'm getting closer! Still need the plates, but do have an old pair of skins kicking around to practice modifying.

I'm assuming your milled risers would be a bit simpler to modify for different boot sizes or binding patterns... you might consider offering a blank riser option for those inclined to drill and tap their own screw holes for any binding option. I haven't spoke to Carl directly yet but my uneducated guess is that he might be setting up mounting points on a fully custom basis for each riser, since carbon fibre doesn't really lend itself to drilling and tapping. If you're planning on using aluminum it'd be much easier to put the holes where needed, as needed.

I might just try mounting my bindings to a spare pair of snowshoes for the short term (or some chunks of plywood) to get the feel of them.

[Kelmarit]

Steeps,
Great point.

I will make you some risers for your Ions as that is an excellent pre-made option.

Definitely will created some blanks though.
Smart.

Cheers.

[Steeps]

Binding prototypes are coming along nicely... got some steel conversion plates fabricated over the holidays and am painting them tonight (to prevent rusting). I drilled M8 sized holes to match the toepiece bolt pattern on my Receptors, and drilled and tapped mounting holes into the plates to take 12-24 screws for the Ion toepieces. I'm going to use some rubber padding (maybe a chunk of old inner tube) between the plate and the Receptors to protect the teeth on the binding base plate and hold them in place. My small town had limited selection of metric hardware so I've had to use M8 hex cap screws so far; will get some hex socket (Allen key) or Philips head screws in the future.

They're brutally heavy - 11 oz / 300+ g per plate - but should be bombproof. The main concern will be bending my Receptor plates due to the extra leverage (will likely use some old bent base plates for initial trials). I can grind off some extra steel and/or swiss cheese them out a bit for weight savings, but this version is mostly prototyping and proof of concept.

I may look at some aluminum U-channel in the future to serve the same purpose, provided I can find the dimensions I need. I'm picturing something wide enough to fit over the Receptor plate, with a 1/2" or so down-leg to provide some stiffness and help hold it in place. Alternatively, this could be a good option for a carbon-fibre conversion plate (smaller than doing a full plate, so cheaper I assume!)... still need to track Carl down about this but having a prototype in place will help.

I like the idea of keeping the Receptor platform and adding an easy-to-swap toepiece to go from resort to touring mode. Practically speaking, it's easier to keep two Receptor setups and swap the entire binding, but it's an easy addition. A similar setup could be used for a touring heel piece, but I'm planning to stay with the non-release heel bail on this rig. Haven't quite figured out if I'll need to add a spacer on the heel to match the extra height, but I think it should be fine. A bit of thin HDPE with longer M8 screws would work for that, if needed (have some at home). Any advice on this Jack? This system is just a steel version of your HDPE bindings, but I'm not sure I'll need the spacer as my plates are a lot thinner. First day out in my touring boots (in standard Receptors) gave me some major calf burn (more on my toes than regular boots), so the extra 3/16" toe elevation may not be an issue here.

One advantage of the system I'm using is that it's not a permanent mount that fits a single boot size... the Receptor heel plus the existing toe socket piece ( that little double nut that sits on the underside of the binding) makes these highly adjustable. I aimed to place the socket in the middle of its travel, so there's a fair bit of adjustability forwards and backwards, plus more in the heel.

Still need to work on heel elevator and get some skins sorted out, but it's getting closer. Booked my avy course for mid-February.

Will post pictures when I get things mounted up!

[jjue]

...

I like the idea of keeping the Receptor platform and adding an easy-to-swap toepiece to go from resort to touring mode. Practically speaking, it's easier to keep two Receptor setups and swap the entire binding, but it's an easy addition. A similar setup could be used for a touring heel piece, but I'm planning to stay with the non-release heel bail on this rig. Haven't quite figured out if I'll need to add a spacer on the heel to match the extra height, but I think it should be fine. A bit of thin HDPE with longer M8 screws would work for that, if needed (have some at home). Any advice on this Jack? This system is just a steel version of your HDPE bindings, but I'm not sure I'll need the spacer as my plates are a lot thinner.

Hi Steeps after you get the front piece of your ion mounted and installed on your receptor binding lock your boot in it and then adjust the rear piece of the receptor binding with the non release bail so that it will hold your boot in when you lock in . You can then see if your boot is flat on the binding . If not you can use the HDPE as a spacer like you say with longer screws. That is what I did . Good luck ! Post pictures and give us a report on the final product.

[Steeps]

Thanks! Will do. Plates are painted and I scored an old inner tube from a piece of heavy equipment to use as a rubber pad for now, just need to get some time to put it all together.

[Kelmarit]

Thanks! Will do. Plates are painted and I scored an old inner tube from a piece of heavy equipment to use as a rubber pad for now, just need to get some time to put it all together.

Got a photo of these to share?
Very interested in the following the progress.

[Steeps]

Will post some soon. I'm a terrible Luddite with a 10 year old flip phone and no home internet, so this involves an actual digital camera, a transfer to my computer, a resize, then lugging the laptop to work after-hours to do an upload. Cut the tube last night (nice texture and thickness of rubber) but haven't mounted them up yet.

I've also been eyeing up my old Canon bindings for conversion... it's a flat plate with 4 pre-tapped holes for mounting screws, which might be easier and more secure (but less adjustable) than Receptors for mounting the toe plates. I don't trust the heel pieces as much, being 20 year old plastic, but they're easy to dial in with a screwdriver compared to the Receptors. I'm a little leery of damaging the teeth on my Receptors with the conversion plate, but I have a spare set of bent base plates that I should be able to straighten out with a vice.