Lookng for a true all-mountain skiboard

[Deddly]

Hello! I have a pair of old-style skiboards (90cm/35" Crazy Crew RPX, similar to the Salomon Snowblades), running with ski release bindings. I'm by no means an expert, but I love it how these allow me to take any slope with relative ease. Of course, I know that technology has come a long way since these were made, but I got a good deal on them as the only ones available in Intersport. Not on display, mind you, but hidden away in a storage room for old unwanted equipment. Yes - skiboards are almost impossible to buy in Sweden.

For the following uses, I find them perfect:

• Any groomed slope
• Moguls (I aim right at them and use them for turning)
• Zipping about between the trees on routes taken by many others so the snow is packed
• Messing about on the edge of slopes
• Shallow powder or soft snow that's not too deep

Although I generally love these, the areas I have a little trouble with are:

• Hard-packed ice (they love to just slide off the top, making it almost impossible to control the speed)
• Deep powder or deep soft snow (sinks right through it, occasionally resulting in some amusing face-plant moments when it is unexpected)

I would like a skiboard that works at least quite well in all conditions. I saw Summit's description of their Invertigo 118 and GroovN 106 and of course they make it sound perfect in every conceivable condition.

These GroovN 106 skiboards are true all mountain, all condition skiboards, the original “One Skiboard Does It All” design and are made to hold on ice, hardpack and float through powder just like the SK8 96 and Invertigo 118 skiboards. These are designed for pure mountain fun, being at home anywhere in the ski resort, including those breathtaking steep chutes you see in the ski movies, ripping through moguls or flying through the glades. If you want something that does it all, these are great choice.

Good marketing, but is there any truth in their claims? Are there any other boards that offer the same or better experience (RVL8 maybe?) What I would especially like to do:

• Float over powder and soft snow without needing to go very fast
• Fast turns (plus I hate the feeling of long skis on my feet)
• Grip on ice
• Unusual I know (I think?), but I would like to have AT bindings and climbing skins so I can literally go anywhere even where there are no slopes. Essentially, serve as snow shoes on the way up, then enough reliability on uneven and uncertain terrain to comfortably make it back down again.
• I might also want to be able skate with them around a cross-country track, so perhaps the loose heel AT bindings would be good for that.

I'm not likely to ever use them on rails. I might try a few small jumps though, but this is a low priority.

I am 195 cm (6'5) in height and weight about 100 kg (220 lb).

What are my best options? Please be easy with me on the terminology, I'm not familiar with many specialised terms.

EDIT: I should add that buying more than one pair is not an option. It really needs to be a single pair for all conditions, though I can probably find space to keep my existing ones if there is any reason to do that.

[ysb33r]

Sweden. You're lucky that in the EU you can get stuff shipped from skiboards.eu if they have it in stock.Otherwise buying from Twoot (in Russia) or the US are your only other options.

Backcountry: This is a very niche area for skiboards and it is worth exploring the backcountry subforum. 106cm might be very short for touring, but then Jack's done it sucessfully with DLPs and RCs (both 110cm). It is very much going to depend on the terrain you encounter. The Invertigos might be better suited - AAMOF I am starting an evaluation of using the Invertigos for touring next week. (I've used Spruce Ospreys, Crossbows and Slingshots with different measures of success for touring). You also have to be aware that having a frame binding directly mounted could restrict the flex of the skiboard. besides weight, this is one reason why frame bindings are becoming unpopular in touring skis and hybrid tech pin bindings are being used to replace them.

That all-mountain skiboard: You might actually be well off on those Invertigos at your weight. See this comparison with the Slingshots. They hold very well on ice, you'll have some slide in places, but I've seen them do well once the edges engaged. Here in the Pyrenees Alps it can get quite icy.

[Deddly]

Thanks a lot for the information and the link, I've had a bit of a read and will do more research. I should have probably mentioned that although I would like to have the ability to use them backcountry, I'm never going to do anything extreme with them. But even just the ability to go up a local hill would be nice.

Your point about affecting the flex of the boards is a good one. Perhaps that's why I have a few problems with my existing ones (I just asked the store to replace the standard binding with a cheap release binding for safety reasons).

[ysb33r]

Your point about affecting the flex of the boards is a good one. Perhaps that's why I have a few problems with my existing ones (I just asked the store to replace the standard binding with a cheap release binding for safety reasons).

This concept of flex have reared again in a couple of different skiboard threads - here and elsewhere. If you want a skiboard with a frame touring binding, then Summit will be the quickest. You can have one direct mounted by Spruce on an Osprey or Sherpa. I have an Osprey with that, but Ospreys are not good performers on ice. In that case Sherpas would be better. But now you are up at 132cm boards, which might not be what you would like. An alternative is to order a blank Invertigo or Marauder from Summit and have Salomon Shift MNC 13 or Fritschi Tecton 12 hybrid tech pin bindings mounted by a local ski shop. Of course, in that case you'll need boots that have the tech pin holes.

[jjue]

Hello Deddly, I just have a few other considerations to add to Ysb33r 's comments. First AT bindings, if you want commercial AT bindings on your boards, the simplest method would be
buy a Summit board as those can be directly drilled with AT bindings whereas the Spruce and the RVL8 boards cannot. Unlike cross country bindings and boots , commercial AT bindings are free pivot at the toe and meant to be used with hard plastic downhill type ski boots, they don't skate very well on groomed cross country tracks and are meant for just walking along. If you want to use non release skiboard bindings on your skiboards, such as the RVL8 receptor bindings I have worked out a simple way to convert them to use for touring without drilling or custom modifications and just buying a few extra parts. See this link . https://forums.skiboardsonline.com/f...ouring-binding
The non release touring binding option will allow some better skating function as the way the toe is restricted is more like a telemark binding and there is more forefoot pressure then free pivot AT bindings.
If you go with the non release touring option you could use this binding on any board with a 4x4 inserts which include all Summit boards and all RVL8 skiboards but not Spruce boards. I would not recommend the use of a non release binding however, on boards longer then 110 cm such as the Invertigo because of safety concerns. In terms of boards suitable for all mountain use , I would also mention the RVL8 Spliff, a wide bodied 109cm rockered Cambered board which is a nice option if you want to use a non release touring option.
ps if you are concerned about using a safe release binding on skiboards for use mostly in the ski area with the option of going uphill as well . I would recommend either a frame type AT binding like the Fritschi Scout or a hybrid pin binding with a combined Alpine type toe like the Salomon shift binding rather one of the many new 2 pin toe tech bindings . I would refer you to his podcast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iinXEGRSTs
start at time 44.20 into the podcast

Good luck

[newbie2011]

It's indeed harder to get skiboards in Europe, but it can be done, it just takes either more money or more search & patience They pop-up on eBay more often than one would imagine, also here in the "Buy & sell" section, or on local adds websites (like Kijiji, Craigslist, finn.no and similar), even on FB marketplace ( check TheSkiboardConnection group there as well ).

The “One Skiboard Does It All” seems a bit of marketing hook, because when you look into it, it's not such an easy thing to do. As a general observation, for a board to do well on hardpack and ice, it needs to be cambered and not very wide. For it to perform well in powder, it needs to be rockered and wider in order to have a bigger area and more flotation. The taller and heavier a person is, the more floataion (area) the board would need. That GroovN is both rockered and cambered, but specs-wise has less area than the Revolts - which is a very good all-mountain board, but not really a powder board for someone your height & weight.

From your requirements, which are the ones "must have" - immediately, most days needed - and which are "nice to have" - that you could live without for a few years ? I know you said "one board only", but I think in time you'll be able to find more second hands bargains than you expect, and maybe a couple of boards would cover better/100% of your needs. If you want to cram too many expectations in one unique board, I would be worried to be disappointed if some of those requirements would not be completely satisfied.

In terms of actual recommendations, I would also vote RVL8 Spliff, have not tried them myself, but by specs alone they seem the most adapted to all conditions board. Check also the Twoowt website, they have a model that it's very close in specs to the Spliffs, I don't remember the name, it can be an alternative if it's easier to get in Sweden.

You can compare the specs of different boards (RVL8 and Spruce) here : https://www.skiboardsonline.com/BRDS.html

and in the "Gear reviews" section you'll find loads of detailed information about each board. Also on Skiboard Magazine (http://www.skiboardmagazine.com/category/articles/ ) and Skiboard Reviws (https://skiboardreview.com/)

[jenn_eris]

I don't think there is such an animal as an all mountain ski. For powder you need a bigger ski, and for groomers I find the smaller ones are better, especially for icy conditions. I have the Sticky Icky that I use for crap conditions like ice. I have a Raptor protype and a Crossbow that are overall great and I think are made for groomers but are pretty good any where. The Osprey is long and fat enough for powder. I go to the hill, look at the snow, and let the skis talk to me. I usually only ride one ski for the day, but sometimes I pick wrong, so I pull another ski out of the quiver.

so I would say a Crossbow, or an Osprey are going to be the closest all Mountain skis, and of the two I like the Crossbow more.

JW

[Steeps]

In terms of actual recommendations, I would also vote RVL8 Spliff, have not tried them myself, but by specs alone they seem the most adapted to all conditions board. Check also the Twoowt website, they have a model that it's very close in specs to the Spliffs, I don't remember the name, it can be an alternative if it's easier to get in Sweden.

Spliffs are my choice for "almost everything" boards. I find them very forgiving even when pushed hard on inconsistent snow. However, the width makes them difficult to get on edge and carve in icy conditions. Learning how to 'slarve' made me a lot more comfortable keeping my speed up when the going gets hard, at least on semi-groomed blue and black runs.

I still find the Spliffs a little scary on extreme slopes when the snow gets too hard, and would rather be on my RVL8 DLPs. The DLPs are champion carvers, very precise on hardpack, and rock-solid on landing drops, but I catch my tips in deeper snow quite often when on them. Some riders like them for powder, but I prefer the rocker on the Spliffs. Those two boards will cover the whole mountain in any condition, with a little bit of overlap.

If I had to pick only one, it would be the Spliffs, but my local mountain gets frequent snowfalls and very little real ice, at least in the alpine. I spend most of my time in tight trees, steep chutes, some moguls (we don't get real, honest Volkswagen-sized moguls here, but both boards work well for the ones we have), smallish drops, and a few groomers on the lower half of the mountain.

[Deddly]

Thank you all for the really useful information so far, I truly appreciate it!

Thanks to your advice and links, I have decided that frame bindings are the best for me, since my main use for these will be on the piste, but I would appreciate the option to go a little further up the mountain under my own power, and perhaps in the future even try a little back-country. What are your opinions on the Salomon Guardian MNC 13?

As for the skiboards themselves, I would love to see a comparison between the Invertigos and Rvl8 Spliffs. Both make similar claims. Anyone have any feedback about how to pick between them? Can they both take the same bindings?

[mvhoffman]

Thank you all for the really useful information so far, I truly appreciate it!

Thanks to your advice and links, I have decided that frame bindings are the best for me, since my main use for these will be on the piste, but I would appreciate the option to go a little further up the mountain under my own power, and perhaps in the future even try a little back-country. What are your opinions on the Salomon Guardian MNC 13?

As for the skiboards themselves, I would love to see a comparison between the Invertigos and Rvl8 Spliffs. Both make similar claims. Anyone have any feedback about how to pick between them? Can they both take the same bindings?

I will say that the Invertigo truly is a fun board and can handle everything I have thrown at it. However if you are truly looking for an everything board, I mean a true 1 board quiver, huge powder to icy runs I would look at the following Rocker/Camber boards... All would be a good 1 board quiver, this is my personal preferenced list.

1. Sherpa - 130cm (feels and maneuvers like a 110 DLP) Just an all around beast. Can truly handle ANYTHING
2. Spliff - 109cm so extremely tree friendly, wider profile than Invertigo so deeper pow would be no problem.
3. Spruce Slingshot - 119cm tree friendly, ice skating feeling board. Can blast thru powder no problem and can handle ice like a hot knife
3. Invertigo - 118cm tree friendly, reasonably stiff, fun board

[jjue]

Thank you all for the really useful information so far, I truly appreciate it!

Thanks to your advice and links, I have decided that frame bindings are the best for me, since my main use for these will be on the piste, but I would appreciate the option to go a little further up the mountain under my own power, and perhaps in the future even try a little back-country. What are your opinions on the Salomon Guardian MNC 13?

As for the skiboards themselves, I would love to see a comparison between the Invertigos and Rvl8 Spliffs. Both make similar claims. Anyone have any feedback about how to pick between them? Can they both take the same bindings?

Hi Deddly, You cannot drill RVL8 (eg Spliffs) or Spruce boards with ski bindings including AT touring bindings. They need to be mounted with bindings atop a riser that can be mounted with inserts into the board.
You can drill and mount any ski bindings on Summit boards such as the Invertigos. The Summit skiboards are constructed stiffer with binding reinforcement to support drilled bindings.
There is a recent nice thread comparing the Invertigos and the Spruce Slingshots
https://forums.skiboardsonline.com/f...s-head-to-head

I personally prefer the flex of the Spruce longboards to the Summit boards ( I own the Summit Marauder but not the Invertigo ) I also prefer the wide bodied 110 RVL8 skiboards like the Condor, Rockered Condor , and Spliffs to the Summit boards because of their unique design and flex ( I own the Summit 110)

While I have not used the Salomon Guardian , I have used similar frame AT bindings (eg Tyrolia Ambition and Fritschi -scout and pro models ) and they all work fine.and work well for both downhill and backcountry use. Jeff singer at Spruceskis.com has done some custom backcountry binding mounts using the Tyrolia Ambition bindings on his Spruce boards but it is expensive. The alternative is to just get a Summit board and drill them with an AT binding such as the Salomon Guardian. Any ski shop will do that for you. I have drilled and mounted the Summit boards myself with Fritschi touring bindings myself and they do hold the bindings well. Good luck.

[Deddly]

You cannot drill RVL8 (eg Spliffs) or Spruce boards with ski bindings including AT touring bindings. They need to be mounted with bindings atop a riser that can be mounted with inserts into the board.

Ah OK, understood. I was looking at the Spliff at skiboards.eu (https://skiboards.eu/en/skiboards/10...ards-2021.html) and according to their description, the mount pattern is 4x4 and 4x10. My understanding is that 4x4 is used for non-release bindings. What's 4x10? In the description they talk about using them with release bindings. Are they just drilling holes where they shouldn't be?

EDIT: Actually, the description says: "The Spliff comes with two sets of inserts, 4x4 and 4x10 inserts"
What's the difference between an insert and a riser? I do apologise for being such a noob.

[ysb33r]

Ah OK, understood. I was looking at the Spliff at skiboards.eu (https://skiboards.eu/en/skiboards/10...ards-2021.html) and according to their description, the mount pattern is 4x4 and 4x10. My understanding is that 4x4 is used for non-release bindings. What's 4x10? In the description they talk about using them with release bindings. Are they just drilling holes where they shouldn't be?

EDIT: Actually, the description says: "The Spliff comes with two sets of inserts, 4x4 and 4x10 inserts"
What's the difference between an insert and a riser? I do apologise for being such a noob.

The 4x10 is used by the Spruce Riser, which is a design for having releasable bindings that can be switched between various pairs of skiboards in a same way that you would want to switch non-releasable bindings. The longer (<100cm)Spruce skiboards themselves only have a 4x10 pattern, which is a way to prevent non-release bindings being mounted on them.

The Spliff & Sticky Icky Icky models are an outlier with their combo 4x4/4x10 mount pattern. In these two models, the 4x10 is used to provide a setback, but due to the length increase in the tip due to this, Rvl*8 feels it is a risk to have non-release mounted this way and have opted to only have release bindings. So basically for these two models, you can use release bindings for both center mount and setback mount, but non-release only for center mount. THe SPrice Riser has 8 holes which can be configured for either 4x4 or 4x10.

HTH

[mikeingram71]

What are your opinions on the Salomon Guardian MNC 13?

Deddly, I'm interested to hear what you've come up with since March.

I am on a similar journey. The research I did revealed that the Salomon Guardians are prone to breakage where there's a joint in the middle of the rail under your foot. Too many people have experienced that, so I didn't go that route. I went with the Tyrolia Ambition 12 bindings that FLEX WITH THE SKI, and are lighter than most frame bindings (500g more (pair) than the Fritchi Scouts though).

I have on order a new pair of Invertigo's (966g) with Tyrolia Ambition 12 bindings (1kg) and Dalbello Quantum Free 110 boots (1.3kg) for a combined total weight of 3.3kg or 7.2lbs per foot. I'll be meandering up easy groomers with average weight of gear as most modern tourists, at my local Colorado mtns and enjoying a burly binding on the way back down.

While I have not used the Salomon Guardian , I have used similar frame AT bindings (eg Tyrolia Ambition and Fritschi -scout and pro models ) and they all work fine.and work well for both downhill and backcountry use. Jeff singer at Spruceskis.com has done some custom backcountry binding mounts using the Tyrolia Ambition bindings on his Spruce boards but it is expensive. The alternative is to just get a Summit board and drill them with an AT binding such as the Salomon Guardian. Any ski shop will do that for you. I have drilled and mounted the Summit boards myself with Fritschi touring bindings myself and they do hold the bindings well. Good luck.

Jjue, what are your experiences with the Ambitions on skiboards? I thought long and hard about the Salomon Shifts, but I'm a huge stoner that prefers things be kept simple. I don't want to forget to flip a switch and then not be locked in. Plus I've been riding Tyrolia bindings for 7 years and felt it would be an easy transition. My total tour setup is 14.4 lbs (3.3kg per foot), minus the skins. What do you think? Any advice? Total noob to uphill, but again, just sticking with groomers (Loveland before they open and Winter Park mostly).

[jjue]

Jjue, what are your experiences with the Ambitions on skiboards? I thought long and hard about the Salomon Shifts, but I'm a huge stoner that prefers things be kept simple. I don't want to forget to flip a switch and then not be locked in. Plus I've been riding Tyrolia bindings for 7 years and felt it would be an easy transition. My total tour setup is 14.4 lbs (3.3kg per foot), minus the skins. What do you think? Any advice? Total noob to uphill, but again, just sticking with groomers (Loveland before they open and Winter Park mostly).

I think the Tyrolia Ambitions are great bindings , they pretty much allow you to have the same feel as riding with your regular tyrolia downhill bindings , yet allowing you to tour with a flip of a lever , very easy to use. I think for your use they are the best choice. The other advantage is they allow the use of regular downhill ski boots and do not require tech compatible AT boots.