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  • DPS Phantom Permanent Base Glide

    Has anyone checked out this Kickstarter campaign from DPS that claims to have engineered a product to end traditional ski wax?

    I’m curious what everyone’s thoughts are - if it works, I’d love to remove ski waxing from my routine. . .

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...r-skis-an/faqs


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  • #2
    It's an interesting concept. There are been a few attempts to create a base material that did not need wax but I don't think I've seen a permanent wax ever before. The questions I would have are:
    • Is it really permanent?
    • How does it work? (This kickstarter page is not specific on this)
    • Will the ski industry try to kill it? (Perhaps that's the reason for the kickstarter? My local shop makes a ton on waxing)
    • Would future new DPS skis come with the coating already on them?
    • Since a single treatment package covers one full sized pair of skis could it cover two sets of skiboards?


    As an engineer I am skeptical of any product that claims to be a "one time application". I have seen too many industrial waterproofers, sealants, and other products that are advertised as "life time applications" that fail (or maybe I am living too long). However if it works I am all in. It would save me time and keep the harmful chemicals from traditional wax out of the environment. A win-win!

    Would be nice if they can get the cost down. $90 for a single application is a bit steep when you upgrade skis/skiboards every other year or so. But I hate my local ski shop so I might actually be happy to overpay for a product that means I don't have to use their services or do regular waxing myself.
    Boards:
    2016 Spruce tuned Head Jr. Caddys - 131cm
    2013 Spruce "CTS" 120s
    2010 Spruce "Yellow/Red" 120s
    2018 Spruce "CTS" Crossbows - 115cm
    2016 RVL8 Spliffs - 109cm
    2008 RVL8 Revolt "City" - 105cm
    2017 RVL8 Sticky Icky Icky - 104cm
    2011 Defiance Blades - 101cm

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Wookie View Post
      It's an interesting concept. There are been a few attempts to create a base material that did not need wax but I don't think I've seen a permanent wax ever before. The questions I would have are:
      • Is it really permanent?
      • How does it work? (This kickstarter page is not specific on this)
      • Will the ski industry try to kill it? (Perhaps that's the reason for the kickstarter? My local shop makes a ton on waxing)
      • Would future new DPS skis come with the coating already on them?
      • Since a single treatment package covers one full sized pair of skis could it cover two sets of skiboards?


      As an engineer I am skeptical of any product that claims to be a "one time application". I have seen too many industrial waterproofers, sealants, and other products that are advertised as "life time applications" that fail (or maybe I am living too long). However if it works I am all in. It would save me time and keep the harmful chemicals from traditional wax out of the environment. A win-win!

      Would be nice if they can get the cost down. $90 for a single application is a bit steep when you upgrade skis/skiboards every other year or so. But I hate my local ski shop so I might actually be happy to overpay for a product that means I don't have to use their services or do regular waxing myself.
      A couple of interesting things from their info:

      1. Still works even after a base grind.

      2. Average life expectancy of skis = 3-4 years. Did they say this because the stuff only lasts 3-4 years or was this truly just a value proposition of cost of waxing 3-4 years vs one time with DPS.

      I’m very tempted to give it a try, but only use on my favorites for now.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

      Comment


      • #4
        Macro, the way your board line-up changes from year to year, I think you're better off sticking with the DIY method. ;-)

        Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
        171cm/190lbs
        Current Favorites:
        RVL8 Yin/Yang Blunts, Spruce Sherpas (x2) & Ospreys, Coda custom Yetis v1 140
        Spruce Pro Primes w/Attack 13's (x 4), Bomber Elite 1
        Other boards I'm trying:
        Summit Custom Carbon 110, Dynastar Twin 85, Coda custom Yetis v2 145

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Fedfan View Post
          Macro, the way your board line-up changes from year to year, I think you're better off sticking with the DIY method. ;-)

          Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
          I really am trying to get that under control. This year was better - only one summer purchase and my upcoming CrossBow purchase. . . So only two new ski devices for this season.




          So far. . .

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by macrophotog View Post
            A couple of interesting things from their info:

            1. Still works even after a base grind.

            2. Average life expectancy of skis = 3-4 years. Did they say this because the stuff only lasts 3-4 years or was this truly just a value proposition of cost of waxing 3-4 years vs one time with DPS.

            Iím very tempted to give it a try, but only use on my favorites for now.


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
            here is one answer I found:

            "Phantom becomes a permanent part of your bases. Regardless of where you are in the ski/snowboards' life cycle, if you have base, you have Phantom. In other words. Four years of ski/snowboard lifespan was used as an average example. For example, If you are using the same skis after ten years, Phantom is still 100% active, and there is no need to reapply it at any interval prior."

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by macrophotog View Post
              Average life expectancy of skis = 3-4 years. Did they say this because the stuff only lasts 3-4 years or was this truly just a value proposition of cost of waxing 3-4 years vs one time with DPS.
              They cover off on this in the backer comments section:
              "Phantom becomes a permanent part of your bases. Regardless of where you are in the ski/snowboards' life cycle, if you have base, you have Phantom. In other words. Four years of ski/snowboard lifespan was used as an average example. For example, If you are using the same skis after ten years, Phantom is still 100% active, and there is no need to reapply it at any interval prior."

              The question I would add to my list: Is there a Phantom cleaning product that would remove gunk build up that make form a barrier between the Phantom treated bases and the snow? For those of us that ride 100% on man made snow you know it is dirty and when you clean your bases prior to regular waxing you remove some nasty crud that you picked up on the hill


              Originally posted by Fedfan View Post
              Macro, the way your board line-up changes from year to year, I think you're better off sticking with the DIY method. ;-)
              This is my dilemma. For each of the past few seasons I have changed my primary ride. It's tough to justify a "lifetime" wax when I only make a one season commitment to my boards. Even this season I am hoping to shelve my RVL8 SIIs and move to the Spruce Crossbows for the season. Perhaps this product is reserved for only the 100% permanent members of my quiver such as my RVL8 Revolt Cities (no Ricky they are still not for sale) and my Spruce 120s. If this was $50 product instead of a $90 I would be more likely to use it on all my skiboards rather than my long term keepers.
              Boards:
              2016 Spruce tuned Head Jr. Caddys - 131cm
              2013 Spruce "CTS" 120s
              2010 Spruce "Yellow/Red" 120s
              2018 Spruce "CTS" Crossbows - 115cm
              2016 RVL8 Spliffs - 109cm
              2008 RVL8 Revolt "City" - 105cm
              2017 RVL8 Sticky Icky Icky - 104cm
              2011 Defiance Blades - 101cm

              Comment


              • #8
                old wax

                I have been watching this one for a while too. I am curious but will let others try it before sticking it on my new boards. I asked them a question about old wax and it sounds kind of like a pain to get the old stuff off (using commercial wax remover and even a grind maybe) before you can do this. That's beyond my home tuning experience so would need to look into that part too.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Wax is a myth
                  Just these, nothing else !

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bad Wolf View Post
                    Wax is a myth
                    joke? or are you really a non-wax skiboarder?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bad Wolf View Post
                      Wax is a myth
                      Originally posted by macrophotog View Post
                      joke? or are you really a non-wax skiboarder?
                      If he is saying the need for waxing is a myth, I kind of get it. I never waxed my Salomon Snowblades during the five years I rode them, and they performed just fine.

                      Skiboards:
                      2013 Spruce Sherpas w/Tyrolia Peak 11s
                      2015 RVL8 Blunt XLs w/Tyrolia Attack 13s
                      2018 Spruce Crossbows w/Tyrolia Peak 11s
                      2017 RVL8 Sticky Icky Ickys w/Tyrolia SX 10s


                      Boots:
                      Salomon X-Pro 80

                      Past boards: Salomon Snowblades, Line MNPs 89 & 98 cm, Five-Os, Bullets, Jedis, Spruce 120s, LE 125s, Ospreys
                      Summit 110s, Nomads, Jades, RVL8 ALPs, BWPs, KTPs, Tanshos, Rockets, DLPs, Blunts, Condors, RCs, Revolts, Spliffs

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        There's only one thing worse than waxing, and that would be the open-mouthed, ham-fisted help at our local "pro" shop. It would be worth a lot for a one-time application product (that actually works), even for someone (like me) who switches rides like a maniac.

                        Where wax really seems to make a difference is in extreme conditions---bitter cold and melting slush. Wendell has a rub on product in his kit that helps a ton with glide in the slush. If this "one-time" product does indeed work in any sort of conditions, it might be worth the dollars.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by sempai View Post
                          If he is saying the need for waxing is a myth, I kind of get it. I never waxed my Salomon Snowblades during the five years I rode them, and they performed just fine.
                          Did your Solomon's have extruded bases?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by macrophotog View Post
                            joke? or are you really a non-wax skiboarder?
                            The need for waxing by recreational skiers is a myth supported by the desire to copy racing technology, and sell lots of wax. To be truly effective, wax needs to be applied after every few runs and has to be VERY temperature specific. In fact the wrong wax will just slow you down. There is very little scientific evidence to support to the use of wax by regular skiers. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence, but that is more likely to be subjective rather than objective. Although it looks like there is an entire science behind waxing skis, there isn't.

                            Another myth, P Tex bases do not have pores that "soak" up melted wax to release it at a later date. At best, sintered bases have a Swiss cheese texture that allows to wax to adhere, but there is no true penetration into the material. Sorry.

                            The best you can do, is keep your bases clean and free of knocks and scratches. Spend your money on grinds to refresh the bases rather than frequent waxing.

                            With the closing of the Epic Ski site, all the information has been lost, but there was a huge thread about this very subject. As many of the participants were ski techs, racers, coaches, engineers and various PHDs, it was a fascinating resource about the subject of waxing skis. I linked that thread here several times over the years when the subject came up, but now it's gone.
                            Just these, nothing else !

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bill View Post
                              Did your Solomon's have extruded bases?
                              Most likely, and I know that extruded doesn't need wax as often as sintered. I did occasionally rub on some Zardoz, so they were not bone dry.

                              Skiboards:
                              2013 Spruce Sherpas w/Tyrolia Peak 11s
                              2015 RVL8 Blunt XLs w/Tyrolia Attack 13s
                              2018 Spruce Crossbows w/Tyrolia Peak 11s
                              2017 RVL8 Sticky Icky Ickys w/Tyrolia SX 10s


                              Boots:
                              Salomon X-Pro 80

                              Past boards: Salomon Snowblades, Line MNPs 89 & 98 cm, Five-Os, Bullets, Jedis, Spruce 120s, LE 125s, Ospreys
                              Summit 110s, Nomads, Jades, RVL8 ALPs, BWPs, KTPs, Tanshos, Rockets, DLPs, Blunts, Condors, RCs, Revolts, Spliffs

                              Comment

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