Soft boot vs hard boot

[bhd1223]

Hello,

As I gain more experience on my first set of boards this winter I may end up picking up a second set that offer a little more float. What is the difference in feeling when using the soft snowboard boot bindings vs the hard ski boot bindings? Positives, negatives? I'm considering trying to do a demo and get each option if I decide to splurge on a new set but I'm just looking for some baselines based on people's experiences.

Would it be better to get a lot of experience before moving to a soft boot? I miss the comfort of the snowboard boots when walking around but it's not a huge deal. Just trying to decide if it's worth the investment for soft boot bindings.

Thanks,
Brian

P.S. I tried searching for a discussion on this but had no luck.

[nwhitta]

Soft boots sound a great idea and are extra useful if you switch between skiboards and snowboards.
However I think the best option is still a good fitting pair of hard ski boots. These should be comfortable and give good control. You will be able to switch between skiboards and skis (if this is relevant to you), the bindings are tried and tested and this is the cheapest option.
I am yet to be convinced that soft boots and snowboard bindings have evolved sufficiently to give the control that a good ski boot set up will provide. It is possible to find a comfortable fit with ski boots. I wouldn't want to run a marathon in them (in fact I would take the bus), but they should get you to the bottom of the local ski lift.

[nwhitta]

One further point I should have mentioned. A soft boot set up will always have fixed (non-release) binding. With ski boots, you have the choice of a fixed binding or a release binding. This retricts the soft boot option to the shorter skiboards.

[jjue]

Great question .. and I think the best way of answering this would be to have folks who have ridden both ways post up their experiences .
I will start .... I have tons of experience riding with hard boots on skiboards with non release bindings and with the spruce riser,
also I have had extensive experience riding with soft snowboard boots with a variety of properly modified snowboard bindings. I ridden these set ups on all kinds of skiboards. I am an expert rider and my experience may not translate completely to riders at other levels , however. First, although I prefer snowboard boots and modified snowboard bindings by far to hardboots it is important to understand that the experience is way more dependent on the type of snowboard boot you buy then hardboots. I have a great time and excellent control of my skiboards on very soft flexing beginner hardboots , as well as stiff high end hardboots. and in fact I actually prefer the cheaper less stiff hardboots. With the modified snowboard bindings to give you control on par with a hard boot set up you need a stiff snowboard boot which generally are more expensive and harder to find . That being said I do think that if you get the RIGHT commercial modified snowboard binding paired with a pretty stiff snowboard boot you can have an excellent experience on par with hardboots. Some commercial modified snowboard bindings ( not sold on this web site ) are pretty horrible and do not provide adequate support . The key factors are a rigid aluminum heel cup , firm supportative , highback , with wings and three big wide straps to hold you in and a firm supportative riser to get you up off the board .

What I like about the soft boot set up is the comfort of the boots , and an intangible better feel or sensitivity of my foot in the boot , yet with all the control of my hardboot set ups .

My experience may be different from others however .. and I would love to hear what others who have ridden both ways think .
I think Gromit who tried both ways .. really thinks he has better control in a hardboot set up and sold his soft boot set up straight away even though he had a pretty good boot and a nicely designed modified snowboard binding set up .

[slow]

Intuitively, soft boots should be more comfortable than ski boots, but that is not always the case. If a rider already has a well fitting and comfortable ski boot, the benefit of a soft boot may be negligible and may not offset the small loss of rigid coupling to the skiboard that translates into a feeling of being in control of our edges. I found that my ski boots were actually more comfortable than my soft boot setup so I decided to stay with ski boots. But if I find a comfortable pair of soft boots, I may give it another try. But why fix something that ain't broke? I believe Gromit came to the same conclusion.

Therefore, as with deciding which ski boot to buy, the same is true IMO with soft verses hard boots. It is all about which is most comfortable for "you".

[Scribbler]

If you have found some ski boots that you like, are warm, comfortable, and easy to take on/off, then you really have no reason to switch. I have been told that these do exist.

Despite more than 5 years hunting for ski boots that would do this, though, (including custom fitting of shell, liner AND footbed), I never found them - my feet were either cold, pinching, aching, or both. Tested a whole load of them, went to a pro boot fitter - the works.

Last season I switched to Soft boots, with properly modified bindings from GGO and release risers. You can find a lot of threads I've written about them if you search my username. Finally, my feet are warm and pain free!

I find no significant difference in the amount of control I have, so I'm sticking with Softboots. They are the solution to a problem - if it's a problem you don't have, then you probably don't need them.

That's my 2c

Scribbler

[Gromit]

Intuitively, soft boots should be more comfortable than ski boots, but that is not always the case. If a rider already has a well fitting and comfortable ski boot, the benefit of a soft boot may be negligible and may not offset the small loss of rigid coupling to the skiboard that translates into a feeling of being in control of our edges. I found that my ski boots were actually more comfortable than my soft boot setup so I decided to stay with ski boots. But if I find a comfortable pair of soft boots, I may give it another try. But why fix something that ain't broke? I believe Gromit came to the same conclusion.

Therefore, as with deciding which ski boot to buy, the same is true IMO with soft verses hard boots. It is all about which is most comfortable for "you".

Slow has pretty much summed up my feelings about the whole issue of soft boots vs hard boots.

I did a back to back comparison at the snow dome using Blunts. Here is what I wrote, at the time "Sadly, the soft bindings just aren’t precise enough for me. With fixed bindings (and twist-out), I feel that I can control my edges to the millimetre but with the soft bindings, its like using a basic, release binding with average, ski boots on a Spruce Riser. That higher level of control which I have become used to, had gone. I’m not prepared to compromise. Valmorel said something interesting here. He said that if I wanted to progress with edging then the softboot bindings would hold me back. Damn those Blunts can edge. If I had switched straight from release bindings to soft bindings then I am sure that they would have felt just great."

Since then, I've given it some further thought but haven't changed my opinion at all. I've also discussed this with Valmorel. I think that the way forward for me when my old Salomon EXP93s rear-entry boots finally "give up the ghost" is to get some comfortable ski boots with a decent walk mode. Something like, the Atomic Waymaker 70, for example.
I also hope that maybe one day, the Apex, exoskeleton "soft boots" will become more affordable.

[Bad Wolf]

Would it be better to get a lot of experience before moving to a soft boot? I miss the comfort of the snowboard boots when walking around but it's not a huge deal. Just trying to decide if it's worth the investment for soft boot bindings.

I have a lot of interest in this question as well. Most folks asking about soft boot set ups are looking forward to walking around in comfort. It rarely seems to be for a increase in control. I have to be honest and admit to a lot of envy when my daughter can lace up her snowboard boots in the hotel in the morning and wear them comfortably and warmly all day long. She sometimes doesn't even take them off on the three hour drive home.

I'm tempted to try them, but worry about a loss of feel and connection with my skiboards. Currently I have Nordica Hotrod hard sk iboots and Line FF Pro non release bindings. I can't imagine a more responsive set up on the slopes. I can ski all day in my boots and get from the car to the lift to the lodge without too much discomfort.

Despite it not being broken, I do want to try a soft boot set up sometime. Just not yet. If I wanted a change from skiboards I imagine it would be longer ski rather than a snowboard.

[Zach]

Soft boot vs hard boot

I have a lot of interest in this question as well. Most folks asking about soft boot set ups are looking forward to walking around in comfort. It rarely seems to be for a increase in control. I have to be honest and admit to a lot of envy when my daughter can lace up her snowboard boots in the hotel in the morning and wear them comfortably and warmly all day long. She sometimes doesn't even take them off on the three hour drive home.

I'm tempted to try them, but worry about a loss of feel and connection with my skiboards. Currently I have Nordica Hotrod hard sk iboots and Line FF Pro non release bindings. I can't imagine a more responsive set up on the slopes. I can ski all day in my boots and get from the car to the lift to the lodge without too much discomfort.

Despite it not being broken, I do want to try a soft boot set up sometime. Just not yet. If I wanted a change from skiboards I imagine it would be longer ski rather than a snowboard.

I tried the rocker binding set up when it first came out. I found the "steering" very vague and felt very disconnected. I thought it was just me as people on here are going nuts for soft boot set-up's

To be fair... I feel the same way about risers. I think I have decided that I only want to ride non release with ski boots as they personally give me the most control.


I'm gonna get 45 days on the mountain this year if it kills me!

[bhd1223]

Thank you all for the input. I happen to have some nice snowboard boots from when I picked up a whole new snowboard setup a couple years ago when first getting back on the mountain. At that time and even now snowboarding no longer feels natural to me. It used to just work for me, it could be the amount of time away, but I feel I have to work for it now. The fun left with the way it feels these days.

Enter the skiboards. I went out and got some ski boots just to try these things out at the end of last winter. The boots are comfortable and fit me well, they just hurt to walk around in and even hurt a little after being on for an entire day at the mountain. I found some relief last time by unbuckling when walking around. I just prefer the all day comfort my snowboard boots gave me.

I'm still new to them, I picked up the Slapdash from the demo program. Last winter I did maybe 3 days on them. Only one day so far this winter but I plan on raising that number quickly in a few days. I'd like to get out a lot over a few weeks and then maybe give the KTPs a try. I'm trying to decide if I should try a soft boot setup back to back with the non-release bindings or just pick one or the other.

As it stands I have both boots. The snowboard boots are just collecting dust at present. I figure it can't hurt to try them out, I'm just trying to gauge what difference in feeling I'll experience. Maybe they're better for the skinnier boards?

[bee]

Check out my website as it has the most information in one place including a Pros and Cons section. skiboardbindings.com.

I have to point out that there are many things that will affect someones experience with softboot bindings. Some reasons are obvious others may not be that obvious.


Bindings: There are multiple softboot bindings available. GGO, Rocker, and 2 different bindings put together by Greco. There is no reason to believe that they are equal in performance.
Here is an example of why you can't put to much stock in random opinions:
The example I will give is with the Rocker binding. It comes in "one size fits all" which in my opinion translates to XL. If someone buys that binding who has a small foot the odds of it working out for them is not all that high. They may say that they "suck" and you should stick to standard skiboots. This doesn't mean they won't work for someone with a mens 13 shoe.

Boots: Like already mentioned earlier in this thread and just as important as bindings, proper boots are critical. I have a section on my website discussing what to look for in a snowboard boot when its going to be used for skiboarding.

Personal style: You wouldn't believe how much style varies from one skiboarder to another, as you might expect what they require from their setup varies greatly as well. Never assume that someone, even with lots of experience or post counts, will know whats best for you over the internet.


To answer some of your questions directly

imo you either like wide boards or you don't, bindings have little affect.

Yes try softboots back to back with hardshell, that is the only true way to find out which you prefer.

Experience is not necessary. Nudelles is the First person to learn to skiboard with snowboard boots. He picked up skiboarding way quicker then I did.

Here is a video with nudellus, his second season on skiboards. (he is the one who laughs when he falls down lol)

http://vimeo.com/cant360productions/videos

[bhd1223]

Thanks for that Bee. I'm happy to hear that bindings have little effect on how one feels about board width. The boots I have at rated right in the middle of the "support" rating from the manufacturer so I'll take it that's good enough to give some bindings a try. I'll have to see what my options are when I'm ready to give another set of boards a try. The boots are 9.5 so it seems Large is the size binding I'll need based on current offerings.

[bhd1223]

KTPs arrived with the soft boot bindings. After I get out on them I'll report back on my opinion of hard boot vs soft boot.

[Air-Rik]

backstory
when I first started skiboarding I had the worst boots. Shop told me they were perfect fitment for my foot size ETC ETC. They were put my foot to sleep after a few runs. Anyhow it made my exp un enjoyable .... but discovered the soft boot setup and changed how I looked at the slopes. i was comfy as ever and I could go up and down all day no breaks and just be free with the wind in my face as I carve my way down. After a few seasons I decided to give a hard ski boot a try once again as ski's were intended for. I was lucky I found a hardboot that fit me perfectly, It's nice and snug but comfortable as ever. so I rode the hard boot for a season. This season I started it off with a softboot setup and as comfortable as they are they no longer have the comfort benefit for me.

Outside of the bindings (walking around the lodge etc) the soft boot setup decimates the hardboot.
In the bindings (Rocker soft boot bindings) I had to worry about how tight i dialed in ea strap specially the middle/ankle one. If I made it to tight it would hurt my feet (similar feeling I had with my tight ski boot) but once dialed in right it's all good. Also I found for myself at least with the soft boot put a lot of stress on the insides of my shin bone (no idea what that areas called) My guess its bc soft boot has a lot of flex and stresses the lateral support strap.

With that being said softboot setup still comfy and is a setup that works. As for myself I found my setup with a hardboot that works cept for when you gotta go down those stairs ... or take deuce with your ski pants and hardboots on .... y'guys know what i mean

[bhd1223]

Hello All,

Sorry for taking so long to get back after the demo. I took two days where I did some runs back to back on each, both the soft boots and my hard boots. The only difference in comfort was felt walking around and I managed to find the magical "walk setting" on my ski boots which helped it get "close enough." I had switched to some stiff snowboard boots and even then they felt dull compared to the ski boots. I just didn't have the feel of the hard boot with them. I wouldn't say the response was any better or worse, likely the same, I just felt disconnected some. For some reason it seemed like the soft boot runs took more out of me energy wise as well. Overall I prefer the hard boot and the feel it gives. Now I'm curious what will happen if I ever decide to step up in length and try a spruce release setup. Hopefully those don't dull the feel too much.

Anyways, I hope that helps provide a data point of my experience with the two different options.

Thanks,
Brian