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any explaination for summit boards (110's) being so cheap and so available?

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  • any explaination for summit boards (110's) being so cheap and so available?

    Bare with me here, and if you do thanks for your time!

    2 years ago I received a loaner pair of line weapons which I used and abused while having a blast, but realized I needed something longer and fatter to increase my abilities and excitement. So last September I purchased a pair of summit marauders from doc directly and loved them... till the rear binding ripped out mid January... I soon after received my replacement 2012 pair from doc, with very good customer service, which I would expect from any company.

    Since the end of the 2012 season, I had been searching ebay for deals, waiting for a pair of revel8 boards to appear for a good price, hahaha. I hadn't known what boards I wanted, just wanted to try em out and knew it would be worth it. I accidentally ended up bidding and winning a pair of summit (woodie) 110's... that I now don't know what to do with...

    I'd been dreaming of going to Liberty and meeting revel8 riders, and my dreams became reality. My girlfriend Meghan and I met such amazing friendly people and didn't expect the treatment we received from these talented and fun group of guys. I can't speak highly enough of everyone we met. I have so much respect for revel8 and their team riders and how well they are able to advertise their great products by using such a friendly attitude that I admire, and appreciate. At this meet I received a pair of revel8 revolt trees that ended up being so much more comfortable for the conditions at Liberty. I have a feeling that these boards are going to be all I ride this winter I basically wish I could've stumbled upon revel8 products sooner. But anyway, I digress...

    My reasoning for this story is that it seems that more than a few people on the forums have summit 110's. The only reason I went summit in the first place was the price for the product, and the availability of the product. All I did was call doc and got my marauders for a price very discounted from the ebay price (ended up being like $200 including bindings).

    Is the reason so many summit boards are around because of the price he gives em out at? Or is it all other brands get purchased and summit is all that is left on the market? It just makes me wonder...

  • #2
    Interesting observation .... to me it is all about two different ways of doing business.... Skiboards.com/Summit with a few models that have not changed much over the years ... that are deliberately priced lower then the competitor, and I suspect larger product runs of those few models. . Costs are kept down by eliminating support and maintenance of a community forum , no support for a pro rider program , no support for community events such as Shredfest , and little or no money spent on developing and testing new innovative products. SBOL/Rvl*8 on the other hand :. major product innovation ( the first ultra wide 110 - condor , the first Rockered ultra wide 110 , the first ultrawide 101 with set back inserts ( KTP) .. a huge array of various graphic choices on multiple models, support for a active forum , support for a community of riders in the form of a sponsored pro group , and support for community events such as Shredfest... Yes the price point for comparable products may be a bit higher , but for me and others the extra money I spend is worth it both for the kind of product I get and also for the kind of company I am supporting with my dollars....
    Boards :
    Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
    Boots
    K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
    Bindings:
    Zero Pro Non release Binding
    Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
    Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
    Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
    Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

    Comment


    • #3
      In general I think it is hard to tell from the outside exactly why a business does what it does - in this case price point for its products. With publicly traded companies their financial reporting will reveal certain details about their cost structure, cash flow, investments, etc that can be used as benchmarks and to gain insights into their operations. With small privately owned companies that data is not available nor are the details of their decision-making in most cases.

      Summit has 4 in-house product offerings that aside from graphics changes on topsheets look like they have not changed from a design standpoint in several years so virtually no cost for product development. As Jack points out larger production runs, if Summit does have larger production runs, typically will bring down the unit cost to produce each board. Interestingly, if you go to any of their product pages in the lower right corner of the page the number of units in stock is displayed - that at least gives you some indication of volume, especiallly if you assume they get 1 shipment of each board from their manufacturer (I believe in China) per season. Given the distance from the manufacturer and the relatively short main selling season 1 shipment would be a reasonable assumption.

      The overall cost of running the business factors into it as well. Jack points out some of the additional costs that Revel8/skiboardsonline incurs by supporting the community, pro riders, etc. How the business is funded and financed is also a factor along with debt load, etc.

      With re to Summit products being sold at "cheap" prices unless people are getting special deals the retail pricing is not significantly different for comparable Revel8 products. For example, the Summit Custom 110 board (the regular topsheet, not the bamboo one) is listed at $235 on Summit's site. The Revel8 110 DLP is listed at $279 which is $44 more (18.7%). I know at times Summit seems to put out bargain basement prices on products so in those cases the product pricing probably does qualify as "cheap". Who knows the reason(s) for that. Although everyone always needs to look at the product being offered in the "deal" and determine if it meets their needs - e.g., sometimes lower grade bindings are packaged as part of a deal.
      In pursuit of Peace, Harmony and Flow.....
      Think Like a Mountain

      Boards ridden, some owned: Sherpas, Spruce 120 "STS", Blunts, DS110 custom prototypes, Rockered Condors, Revolts, DLPs, Summit Custom 110s, Summit Marauders, Head 94s, Raptor prototypes, Osprey prototypes.

      Comment


      • #4
        If I may.

        I had never even heard of skiboards until last year and did not now any of the products or companies involved. I bought my first set through Skis.com (mini skis for $100) and then started researching all the options to buy a more modern product. The vast majority of the internet searches for skiboards kept leading me back to Doc's site and Summit. They do a great job of funneling internet traffic their way. I did see the SBOL/RVL8 site but it comes up much less frequently.

        Price point is huge for many new to skiboarding and Doc seems to have the advantage there as well. Although the boards have comparable base prices, the riser/binding combo takes many of the RVL8 boards over $500, whilst Summits binding only option keeps the price down. Again most new buyers don't know the difference between the binding options, they just see the final price. And again, I'm not making a judgment between which bindings are best.

        Doc does seem to offer some great deals through his outlet store as well, I'm sure to help generate interest. I bought a brand new set of Summit 110 cm Customs with Tyrolia demo bindings for $220. Even if I throw the bindings away I still have a great deal. They do come with the 4x4 steel inserts so I can use risers if I wish.

        I don't know enough about the two brands to compare quality. The Summits are make in China to Doc's design and specifications. Since being on the SBOL site, I now have a worry about the bindings pulling out, but the boards themselves appear to well made, at least as good as all the other skis, snowboards and skiboards I've seen.

        Please don't think I am trying to promote Doc or Summit here, I have no loyalty either way. This was just for information in relation to the thread. It is worth noting that as a new buyer i was definitely drawn to his site and products. Perhaps as I become more experienced and wish to make the move to the versatility of risers/bindings and a quiver of rockered boards, then RVL8/Spruce would be my best option.

        Maybe the difference is that RVL8's customer is a more serious, committed skiboarder willing to spend more for a specialized product and Doc caters to the more casual, cost aware skiboarder?
        Just these, nothing else !

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bad Wolf View Post
          ...the riser/binding combo takes many of the RVL8 boards over $500...

          Maybe the difference is that RVL8's customer is a more serious, committed skiboarder willing to spend more for a specialized product and Doc caters to the more casual, cost aware skiboarder?
          As far as the riser combo goes, I would have a riser setup myself on at least one pair of boards that I own if they weren't so expensive. But once again, you do get what you pay for, and having release bindings does give a little peace-o'-mind.

          The customer difference is absolutely true. Having ridden and seeing what fun skiboards are made me want to spend more time learning about the sport and products. Spending more time learning brought me to this amazing database and brotherhood of talented, fun, friendly people who love to share their ideas and experiences. Once you have a resource like that, like this site, the sky's the limit (or I guess your pocket is the limit).

          Thank you for your input guys, I've just been getting antsy lately. Obviously waiting on mother nature, like everyone else on the east coast. A few friends of mine are planning a trip to Killington December 7-9 and I have visions of skiboards dancing in my head! If anyone is around the northeast and can ride that weekend feel free to get in touch, I'd be glad to share my first ride of the season with some fellow skiboarders at a nice resort.

          Comment


          • #6
            I won't buy a direct-mounted releasable binding from skiboards.com after a prior tear-out experience on a pair of Nomads. However that same pair of boards now sports a riser and is actually a better ride than when it was direct mounted.
            Current: '20 Spruce Slingshot 119s, '20 Spruce Crossbow 115s, '18 Spruce Osprey 132s (touring), '21 Rvl8 SII 104s, '21 Summit Invertigos 118s
            Also: '11 Allz Elaila 94s, '12 Rvl8 Rockered Condor 110s, '15 Spruce Osprey 132s , '18 Spruce Crossbow 115s
            Previous: Gaspo Hot Wax 84s, Mantrax 98s, Summit Nomad 99s, Spruce Yellow 120s, Eman Uprise 104s

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by ysb33r View Post
              I won't buy a direct-mounted releasable binding from skiboards.com after a prior tear-out experience on a pair of Nomads. However that same pair of boards now sports a riser and is actually a better ride than when it was direct mounted.
              ysb33r - I remember seeing your post about the bindings pulling out of the Nomads. Glad you got them fixed up and have risers on them now. I am not surprised that the ride is better with the risers - pretty cool piece of equipment with the way it has a very small footprint on the board to allow it to flex across a broader section and also I think the leverage you get due to the height helps as well. If you haven't posted a review of the Nomads it would be great if you could do that in the skboarding gear reviews section. Always nice to get reviews of boards regardless of manufacturer.
              In pursuit of Peace, Harmony and Flow.....
              Think Like a Mountain

              Boards ridden, some owned: Sherpas, Spruce 120 "STS", Blunts, DS110 custom prototypes, Rockered Condors, Revolts, DLPs, Summit Custom 110s, Summit Marauders, Head 94s, Raptor prototypes, Osprey prototypes.

              Comment


              • #8
                I think it is harder for them to compete directly with the revel8 variety. Its a smaller market.

                btw, your welcome for those boards Austin, I expect good videos of you this season

                -B
                sigpic

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ysb33r View Post
                  I won't buy a direct-mounted releasable binding from skiboards.com after a prior tear-out experience on a pair of Nomads. However that same pair of boards now sports a riser and is actually a better ride than when it was direct mounted.
                  I read your thread about the bindings pulling out and then the repair job with the custom risers, nicely done. It worries me because I have Summit Customs with direct mount Tyrolia bindings. I was hoping that yours was an isolated incident and not a common problem. Summit has put an extra layer of metal(?) in their boards to help secure the bindings better. I contacted Spruce about custom risers but they said they won't work with the demo bindings as the center plate covers the 4x4 inserts. It would cost too much right now to buy new bindings and risers. The boards are under warranty so I think I'll just enjoy them and upgrade later. I don't really want to give up on the demo style binding because of the versatility.

                  Seems like every binding option has its pros and cons.
                  Just these, nothing else !

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If at all possible... I would suggest you try to go to Shredfest. I've been riding skiboards for quite a while.. and I thought I knew a lot about the sport.. until I went to my first Shredfest. It quickly became clear,that I knew nothing! The skiboard community quickly took me, my wife and a friend under their wing.. and made us first timers feel like family!

                    Shredfest is like going to Disneyland for the first time! So much to do and see! But most importantly... the variety will make your head spin!! Not only a variety of boards... a variety of different binding types and styles and best of all.. a wonderfully fun, inviting variety of riders.. both amateurs and pros! Jack, Wendell and Slow are the best and really know their stuff!!!

                    Hope to see you at Shredfest V !

                    Rick
                    rickylink

                    ~ KTP ~ Revolts (mucho) ~ ALP/DLP ~ BCP ~ RC's ~ Blunt~ Blunt XL~ Spliff ~ Sticky ii~ Spruce LE /Osprey~ Crossbow ~ Bomber E2 Bindings / RVL8 Receptors
                    ~ Full Tilt Boots

                    ~ Your 1 ply guy



                    Big or Small I Ride them All !

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bad Wolf View Post
                      I read your thread about the bindings pulling out and then the repair job with the custom risers, nicely done. It worries me because I have Summit Customs with direct mount Tyrolia bindings. I was hoping that yours was an isolated incident and not a common problem. Summit has put an extra layer of metal(?) in their boards to help secure the bindings better. I contacted Spruce about custom risers but they said they won't work with the demo bindings as the center plate covers the 4x4 inserts. It would cost too much right now to buy new bindings and risers. The boards are under warranty so I think I'll just enjoy them and upgrade later. I don't really want to give up on the demo style binding because of the versatility.

                      Seems like every binding option has its pros and cons.
                      Apparently, they did that reinforcement in the model following the year I bought mine in, so hopefully the problem will not happen again. Just always check the mounting screws; make sure they don't loosen.

                      Even with my custom riser the holes are covered, so if I want to fit it on another board it means taking everything apart. Not really a big issue, but not the kind of thing I'll do at a ski resort.

                      Just buy another board with a set of Spruce risers when you have the money and know what you want out of your next set of boards.
                      Current: '20 Spruce Slingshot 119s, '20 Spruce Crossbow 115s, '18 Spruce Osprey 132s (touring), '21 Rvl8 SII 104s, '21 Summit Invertigos 118s
                      Also: '11 Allz Elaila 94s, '12 Rvl8 Rockered Condor 110s, '15 Spruce Osprey 132s , '18 Spruce Crossbow 115s
                      Previous: Gaspo Hot Wax 84s, Mantrax 98s, Summit Nomad 99s, Spruce Yellow 120s, Eman Uprise 104s

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ysb33r View Post
                        Apparently, they did that reinforcement in the model following the year I bought mine in, so hopefully the problem will not happen again. Just always check the mounting screws; make sure they don't loosen.

                        Even with my custom riser the holes are covered, so if I want to fit it on another board it means taking everything apart. Not really a big issue, but not the kind of thing I'll do at a ski resort.

                        Just buy another board with a set of Spruce risers when you have the money and know what you want out of your next set of boards.
                        My dad fixed everything I ever broke with Araldite.
                        Just these, nothing else !

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Branden View Post
                          I think it is harder for them to compete directly with the revel8 variety. Its a smaller market.

                          btw, your welcome for those boards Austin, I expect good videos of you this season

                          -B
                          ask and you shall receive! you opened up my world my friend, I can never thank you enough!!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Whilst reading about waxing irons on a skiing forum, it just dawned on me that another advantage of the 4x4/4x10 systems is that one can remove the bindings before waxing.

                            Elsewhere in threads on this forum people have recommended specifically, as a metal binding can become a heat sink which can induce damage such as in the pic



                            With a direct mounted binding, one does not have this luxury of removing the binding
                            Current: '20 Spruce Slingshot 119s, '20 Spruce Crossbow 115s, '18 Spruce Osprey 132s (touring), '21 Rvl8 SII 104s, '21 Summit Invertigos 118s
                            Also: '11 Allz Elaila 94s, '12 Rvl8 Rockered Condor 110s, '15 Spruce Osprey 132s , '18 Spruce Crossbow 115s
                            Previous: Gaspo Hot Wax 84s, Mantrax 98s, Summit Nomad 99s, Spruce Yellow 120s, Eman Uprise 104s

                            Comment

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