If only we could get some skiboarding edits like this!

[matthew]

you should for sure do it up man. its always good to see edits put up from everyone. im always stoked to see other people killing it in there own ways. and of course always love getting the feed back from you guys on the forum. next season is going to be crazy we are going to have an amazing crew out in colorado at the revel8/junk show house.

[Dave Bloom]

Well, for starters I am definitely interested in seeing. I am always interested and stoked on seeing what people are doing and putting together. So, do it up.

[Scribbler]

how about step in and put out an edit with some sort of storyline? ☺

Heh heh - yup, I'm armchair quarterbacking, and talk is cheap...

I'm going to see if I can sort out a camera rig this summer, so I'll see what I can shoot next season. I can't imagine anyone would be at all interested in my skiboarding skills, but the technical exercise should be interesting.

Scribbler

[Dave Bloom]

Well, edits are exactly what they sound to be, an edit of riding. Storytelling is reserved more for videos or episodes of a show or series.

The ski films that consist of shot to shot riding tend to be setup/planned shots of epic proportions. I.E. Revolver, Simon Dumont road gaps, train-taps. While these films tend to have less storyline they are intended more to display the progression of the sport. In fact, both the trailer and introduction for the film clearly stated that intention. If you are looking for a film that carries more of a storyline and include freestyle riding I would check out Eye Trip.

Often films are produced with intended audiences. Different people want to see different things in a film. There are many people on this forum who get bored by watching trick-to-trick editing while other people can’t get enough of it. In the same token many people on here love to see videos of groomer and pow riding while others can’t view more than 30 seconds of such a video. I don’t think you in a small majority all. In fact, I feel that what people desire on this forum is just about split down the middle. It really does take a series or video with an intended audience to showcase by the lifestyle and riding of a person or group. Unfortunately, we don’t see many people posting riding other than park outside of The Junk Show, which tries to cater to all audiences. The earlier episodes aimed more at the lifestyle aspect while the later episodes included that while focusing more in riding. Do I feel that The Junk Show does just that, split an equal balance of lifestyle and riding? No, but that is not my intention for every single episode. Some cover more lifestyle while some cover more riding. But, again it is about intended audience. I know that certain episodes will catch more attention from one group while other episodes will catch attention from others. While my intentions with The Junk Show are for everyone to enjoy (I have been asking for suggestions for quite some time) I will be the first to say that my short edits are all park riding because that is what I enjoy most.

That being said, I encourage as many people as possible to put out content for the different variety of viewers that we have here on the forum. Since you feel that this is all lacking and I know you are definitely not part of just a small minority, how about step in and put out an edit with some sort of storyline? ☺ GoPros, Contours, Flips, and other HD and non-HD cameras are inexpensive enough that I would hope we see a lot more edits/videos put up on the forum from everyone. I know Jack is always doing some exciting backcountry hiking and riding. I would absolutely LOVE to see that documented and shown on here. I remember seeing a video of groomer riding, tumbling, and just plain fun on here a few months ago. I would love to see more of that. I think everyone could be contributing much more than they are already. I absolutely agree with you and hope that it catches on.

[Scribbler]

This is probably getting a bit OT, but I'd love to see some more 'storytelling', even in edits.

A lot of ski / skiboard edits I've seen, even some more expensive 'films', often consist of shot after shot of (very) talented riders landing tricks. This is initially very impressive, but it quickly gets quite tired, as everything does when it's done constantly. I'd actually argue that it does the riders a bit of a disservice, since it makes the tricks look easy when they really, really aren't.

Maybe I'm in a small minority - but I can't actually tell that one trick is more difficult to pull off than another, and I'd like to see a bit of the story behind it.

Where did it come from? Who invented it? Does it have roots in rollerblading, and that's where the rider got the idea from? Did they spend the whole summer practicing it, and then try to move it over to snow? WHY is it new / difficult to do / developing the sport / a personal accomplishment?

Like I say, I'm not expecting everyone to agree. But it might have a larger audience outside of other park riders.

Scribbler

[SkaFreak]

Really liking the look of that cable cam.

[Dave Bloom]

Oh, I wasn't taking it in that matter all. No worries.

Storyboarding I've been doing. But, part of it also carries the limitation of if not all parts are filmed it throws an entire storyboard off. Often, in simple edits it's the best of the best with shots put together in the best manner allowed. What you are suggesting would work best in a skiboard film which I would love to do. In fact, i posted something early season to get all riders in cooperation to do something like that, both in the park and in the pow, but that ended up not working out due to lack in participation. But, with more assistance behind the camera from people with creative minds such as yourself it just may be possible. I did not get a chance to watch the videos yet but I will later on this evening.

[Scribbler]

@fourdown

I wasn't knocking the skill or time time anyone puts into their edits - I was trying to work out what made the mountain biking video in the OP so impressive.

They obviously have high end kit, exclusive access to a location, and time and resources to make a custom course, all of which suggest some serious funding.

None of these are things that a team of riders with minimal backing can necessarily achieve, so I'm not suggesting that it's possible to do something this polished simply by planning carefully. There's a reason the best footage normally comes from the highest budget films, after all.

However, since planning IS the only way of trying to compensate for these deficiencies, maybe some 'out of the box' thinking will help. Storyboarding the shoot in advance, building custom camera rigs, trying to tell a story, or at least trying to give the viewer some mental picture of the geography of the shot.

All of these things are time consuming, potentially tedious, and have nothing whatsoever to do with the actual skiboarding. But they might make better films.

Here's a video shot with a quadrocopter:

And here's a really simple home-made cablecam - I'd love to see a shot of a rider shredding some trees with one of these (it's smoother if you use tighter cable, and small wheels on the rig)

I also like Skafreaks's suggestion of a lightweight crane on a harness. That's something you couldn't do with high-end kit, since you wouldn't risk a high-end camera, and the crane would weigh too much. A rugged drift or gopro cam would be perfect, though.

[Dave Bloom]

I'm not familiar with them. How would you monitor the shot to make sure you get exactly what you are aiming for? And, how is the shake, or lack of, on the shot?

Matt Hein, Brandon Enouf, and myself have started to invest money in higher end equipment for next season including a DSLR and various lenses and filters as well as scoping out different locations and angles for park, tree, and BC riding. After seeing this edit several months back I started to dabble in the idea of a remote heli.

[SkaFreak]

Haha, I do love that many of the DIY rigs that I see out there involved some sort of skate gear. Many DIY dollies are set with small skate wheels and bearings for the movement. PVC pipe and supplies can definitely build some quality, homemade rigs, but the camera still needs to be high quality to get the best shot possible.

Very true. To be able to get something that can be on par with the pro equipment, you do need some of the prosumer video equipment, but even that stuff is coming down quite a bit in price these days. I'm not saying that every single one of us can just go out and grab one, but I think that if there were really the drive to produce videos with the professional production equipment that it is within reach to pull off. But at the moment, I am not even pushing quite that far. I think that if we set up the rigs and were taking creative shots with decent quality video that it is still possible to get people to take notice. The hardest part is honestly thinking up new ways to get shots. That being said, if we are looking for novel, Scribbler may be onto something with the quad-copter. Those things are ridiculous, fairly easy to pilot, really stable, and could get some really crazy shots that are higher than a small crane would reach, but lower than you would usually see a helicopter willing to buzz the trees.

[Dave Bloom]

Haha, I do love that many of the DIY rigs that I see out there involved some sort of skate gear. Many DIY dollies are set with small skate wheels and bearings for the movement. PVC pipe and supplies can definitely build some quality, homemade rigs, but the camera still needs to be high quality to get the best shot possible.

[Dave Bloom]

Unfortunately, while planning carries great importance to the final product financing does play a large part in it. For several of the edits released this year there was actually a lot of planning put in ahead of time for specific shots to be taken, both action riding as well as non-riding shots (lifestyle, scenery, dramatic, etc…). Several factors, both financial and natural, played an impact on this. Number one and the biggest uncontrollable factor in filming is the weather. A bluebird is a must for the highest quality shots to be taken, regardless of the type of camera, and very often during the winter months this is not available. This is true especially when shooting big mountain or backcountry powder days. Now, factor in that 99% of skiboarders are limited to their time to film, typically weekends. You can't wait several weeks, each day, hoping for the perfect day and when it comes just go out and film the entire time. Even if you get lucky with a bluebird day you then have to deal with every single other cinematographer going out to try and achieve the same thing on that very day. A bluebird day at Breck has every single rider in the park being filmed. On pow days every run is packed full of people riding and if the chance of a bluebird day arrives they are all fitted with GoPros and such. This brings me to my third point. Even if the stars align and you are lucky enough to get a blue bird day on a day that you can ride and film with a less expensive, decent quality HD camera like a GoPro or Contour, you do not have a screen (this year GoPro did just release a screen but that adds onto the expensive and still lacks HD viewing quality with no adjustments being able to be done for lighting control), you still are unable to get the perfect shot no matter how well trained you are with that said device.

In the end, while you can plan and get a decent quality final product with less expensive equipment, homemade rigs, etc… you still lack the viewing and lighting control needed. This brings you to the need to get more expensive equipment like DSLRs or higher end video camera. Lower end video cameras have these options but while they are HD they do not carry the same quality. Even after you have all of this you still need good editing software. Sure, you can budget everything, camera, software (or analog hardware), and rigs, but no matter how well you do with this you will never match the professional video quality of higher end gear.

In the end, for high end quality, for a great product you will always need a combination of finances, time, and the cooperation of nature.

Oh, and I don't know which films you have viewed or maybe you are confusing edits with full-length ski/snowboard/skate/etc… films but the ones done by professional companies and not just riders shooting some video always have extensive planning to not all assure the smoothness of the video's flow but to get every aspect as perfect as possible; soundtrack, specific tricks, angles, lighting, etc...

[SBruce]

I like the homemade steadicam idea -- Dave, note that the gimbal uses a SKATE bearing

Here's the link to the assembly instructions: http://www.yb2normal.com/DIYsteadicam.html

[Scribbler]

A lot of what makes this edit great is the planning. They've obviously got some expensive kit, but someone has also clearly sat down and worked out the mechanics of every single shot in advance - and then carefully rigged each one.

Ski, Snowboard and Skiboard filmakers seem to shoot as much footage as they can, and THEN try to make something of it afterwards. Each individual shot might look great, but they rarely flow together like this. Maybe some more planning and direction would be the way forward?

The indie film crowd have done some great stuff with the cheap cameras now available - how about a skiboard video shot in stereo 3D? With a home-made stedicam? Or with a go-pro on a remote control quadrocopter?

I guess the exercise then becomes more about the technical details of the shoot than the skiboarding, which could take some of the fun out of it.

Scribbler

[SkaFreak]

cranes and really good cameras, unfortunately skiboarding doesnt having the budget for that.

True, although it would be easy enough to make a crane for shots with a smaller camera. The smaller the camera, the less robust it needs to be to support the weight without too much wobble. I think that for some of the small handicams and gopros that you could make a pretty solid crane frame from a triangular PVC truss. Toss that on a harness and you could even work into follow shots. I think that one of the biggest and cheapest things would be to build some steadycams. They can be made for pretty cheap and really improve the quality of a shot.

More importantly, creativity in the shots can trump the amount of money you put into it. The only thing that really has to be expensive is the camera, and prosumer equipment just keeps getting cheaper.