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Condor vs KTP: wide-bodied grudge match

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  • Condor vs KTP: wide-bodied grudge match

    Yesterday I was down at Whitetail from open to close. I took down several pairs of boards, but I ended up just riding the Condors and KTP's. There was no powder really, and I never went into the park, so this is strictly about carving and bombing. I rode the Condors first for about three hours and then switched to the KTP's.

    Condors
    These are the biggest boards I own both in terms of length and width. They got lots of looks and more than a few comments. This was the third time I'd ridden them, so I think that I have a pretty good feel for them. The with is very noticeable when carving, and I can't imagine riding these with anything less than Bombers. On a perfectly groomed slope these things are great. They will chatter when pushed to a certain point, but they don't feel out of control. They are a serious handful at any kind of decent speed, and unless you're used to doing lots of squats, your legs will definitely feel it. Get the Condors into some chop, and the flexiness starts to be a problem. Perhaps it is my technique, but I felt hard pressed to keep the Condors going the way that I wanted to in rough snow. I think they'll be awesome in the powder, and they're great for just cruising on greens and easy blues, but I wouldn't suggest them as an all-mountain board.

    KTP
    These are quickly becoming one of my favorite sets of boards. I've ridden them enough times to get used to the width and stiffer flex, and I've learned how to really get the most out of them. On groomed runs they love to go fast and carve hard. They definitely don't have as much edge engagment as the Condos, but they will still dig some nice trenches. In the rough stuff they kick around a good bit, but the shorter length makes them manageable. I was able to charge down through all sorts of rough snow and barely ever felt out of control. Having said that, they are not as easy to cruise on. Even after riding them several times, I still catch an edge when I'm not paying attention.
    RVL8 Condors - The Flex will be with me, always...until I break them

    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming... "WOW! WHAT A RIDE!!"

  • #2
    Nice and honest comparison review CrazyBoy. Thanks for taking the time to let us know what you thought of each skiboard and their personalities.
    sigpic


    Osprey, Sherpa, Custom Coda 120WT, Custom DS110, Condor (Green), Spliff

    Custom Twist Out duck foot bindings, Bombers (custom duck foot base plate and 3 pads), releasable S810ti on custom duck foot riser

    Nordica N3 NXT ski boots (best so far)


    Wife: 104 SII & 100 Blunt XL with S810ti bindings on custom "adjustable duck foot" risers

    Loaners: 125LE, 105 EMP, 101 KTP, 100 Blunt XL, 98 Slapdash, 88 Blunts

    Comment


    • #3
      I actually wanted to write more, but I ran out of space inputting text on my phone.

      Let me elaborate a little more. I wanted to see how much of a difference there would be between these two since they are only 1cm apart in width and 9cm in length. What's interesting is how much a difference there really was. The Condors are noticeably harder to crank over on edge and give a lot more lateral feedback. The KTP's, while harder to crank than the Revolt/EMP's, is fairly easy to get used to, if a tad unforgiving. What I've come to realize is that the KTP's more aggressive nature is a product of its flex more than its width. The Condors, while noticeably wider while while carving, are also a bit easy and more forgiving to cruise on. My theory is that the softer flex keeps the edges from catching as suddenly while making turns or doing ground spins. I actually found it quite easy to spin on the Condors. The extra length was more noticeable in those situations more than the width. This all leads me to be very curious about how a stiffer version of the Condor would behave. I think that its length/width dimensions are pushing the limits of how big skiboards can be. As much torque as the Condors put on a rider's legs, I wonder how much more would be transmitted by a stiffer construction. This also makes me very curious to ride my '96 Lines since they are 16cm wide and 87cm long with a fairly stiff flex.
      RVL8 Condors - The Flex will be with me, always...until I break them

      Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming... "WOW! WHAT A RIDE!!"

      Comment


      • #4
        Thank you very much Crazy -Boy ,
        the real cool thing about comparison reviews is that those of us who have one of two boards can use the board they have as kind of a reference standard. I own the KTP and have ridden it a lot and much of what you say about the KTP rings true and squares with my experience, the Condor has always intrigued me but I have not pulled the trigger on the board yet . Your review comparing it to the KTP really helps me understand the Condor better with respect to its variable snow , hard snow performance . Thanks again !
        Boards :
        Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
        Boots
        K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
        Bindings:
        Zero Pro Non release Binding
        Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
        Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
        Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
        Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

        Comment


        • #5
          BTW: What is your weight and height?
          sigpic


          Osprey, Sherpa, Custom Coda 120WT, Custom DS110, Condor (Green), Spliff

          Custom Twist Out duck foot bindings, Bombers (custom duck foot base plate and 3 pads), releasable S810ti on custom duck foot riser

          Nordica N3 NXT ski boots (best so far)


          Wife: 104 SII & 100 Blunt XL with S810ti bindings on custom "adjustable duck foot" risers

          Loaners: 125LE, 105 EMP, 101 KTP, 100 Blunt XL, 98 Slapdash, 88 Blunts

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks for the additional thoughts Crazy boy ,

            One of the things I like about the Sherpa is that it does have a nice firm flex , and carves well on firm snow .. while it has a big tip like the Condor , the waist is significantly slimmer at 112 which I think helps me get it on edge .

            Both the KTP and the Sherpa with their firmer flex really do seem to plow through choppy snow with authority , both of them with their wide platform are nice and stable side to side .. The KTP of course needs a lot more rider attention fore and aft balance wise but rewards with amazing manuverability .because of that shorter length .

            My own quiver is really kind of narrowing down to the Sherpa and the KTP .
            Boards :
            Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
            Boots
            K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
            Bindings:
            Zero Pro Non release Binding
            Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
            Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
            Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
            Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by slow View Post
              BTW: What is your weight and height?
              He's 6'3" 185-90lbs
              If my memory serves me right.

              Comment


              • #8
                Slow, I'm 185lbs and just shy of 6'3" with a fairly lanky build.

                Jack, I actually wasn't thinking of the Sherpa, but now that you mention it, it would be interesting to throw a pair of those into the mix. I actually thought about riding my Loken CT8's as well, but I've ridden them a few times and already have a pretty good idea of what they're like.

                Let me throw out a few thoughts on how the CT8's stack up against the two R8 boards.

                The Loken Cruise Tool Eight held the title of widest skiboard design until Revel8 and Spruce came out with their fatties. They're actually kind of like the Condors for me in that they do great on groomed runs that are fairly smooth, but as soon as the going gets rough, they get rather messy. The cause for this is the exact opposite of the Condors. Instead of being a bit too flexy, they're too stiff. This is really where the KTP's start to shine. They really seem to have an almost perfect balance in terms of flex. They're stiff enough the hold up against aggressive carving, but they have enough give to soak up bumps and chop without your legs paying the price. Whereas the Condors seem to wear my legs out from keeping them under control as the absorb all the bumps, the CT8's soak up almost nothing, and so my legs took a beating just from trying to act like suspension so much.

                Back strictly to the KTP's and Condors; I have some ideas about powder riding. To me, it's quite obvious that the Condors were specifically designed for powder. If Brett or Greco or anyone else involved with their design would like to jump in and corretct me, please do so. The Condors are much flexier, and the overall surface area just makes them look floaty. From what I've read on the KTP's design, Kirk wanted boards that could do it all in package that was close to that classic 100cm length. I believe that the KTP's are a success, and they handle all parts of the mountain that I've gotten them on quite well. When it comes to powder riding, I've only been able to take them through a little bit of rough powder that had a nice crust on it. They did ok, but they had a bit more of a tendency to dive. In those conditions, I think the stiffer flex actually hurts the KTP's because they can't float up and over as easily, and so they have a tendency to just push through and sometimes down. With that in mind, I think that a KTP vs Condor powder comparo would go straight to the Condors without much question. I know you can ride any length of skiboard in powder with the right technique and the right conditions. I spent a whole day last season doing powder glade runs on 90cm Groove Invertigos and had a blast. Having said that, to steal a phrase from the V8 fans,"There's no replacement for displacement," and I think the extra surface area of the Condors coupled with that now (to me) classic R8 tip and the nice soft flex will make them hard to beat in the soft stuff. The Jay Jam in less than a week away, and I can't wait to put my theory to the test.

                On another note, my next comparison goal will be to do a full day of EMP vs KTP. I only rode them back to back once at the end of last season, and the EMP's came out on top. Since I've had a chance to ride the KTP's more now, I'd like to do it again and see if the results are the same.
                RVL8 Condors - The Flex will be with me, always...until I break them

                Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming... "WOW! WHAT A RIDE!!"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by jjue View Post
                  My own quiver is really kind of narrowing down to the Sherpa and the KTP .
                  Get out of my head!!!!!
                  I do it because I can.
                  I can because I want to.
                  I want to because you said I couldn't.

                  "The butterflies in my stomach have flown up through my throat and learned to love the open air." - World/Inferno

                  Spruce Sherpas with Prime Pros
                  '08 KTPs

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks for the review ... very good comparison and very helpful for someone like me. I'm about your weight but shorter and am riding exclusively on KTPs right now. I have not yet found any terrain that has given me problems on them but am interested in these types of comparisons to help me make my decision on my next pair of boards.

                    Was out today and riding pretty much all on hard pack groomers with many very icy spots. I'm charging harder and harder each time I go out. Today, bombing down some icy chutes, I had no chatter, no sliding out ... the harder I went and the deeper I leaned, the more they just cut in. When I need to skid a bit to scrub speed, I can ... and then then dive right back into the carve.

                    I love the KTPs.

                    I am finding they are work though. The harder I ride, the more I find my lower legs and ankles getting fatigued. I'm starting to understand why people talk about the work to get these over on edge. Riding very aggressively smokes me something fierce by the end of the day.

                    I need a nice cruiser board for the afternoons. Sounding more and more like a good compliment to these for me is going to be the Spruce 120.

                    I am glad I got the 08 KTPs versus the 09s. For my weight, I think the firmer flex is probably better for me. Would be interesting to ride the two back to back and see if I could tell a difference.
                    Skis: Armada JJs, Armada Magic Js and Icelantic Keepers
                    Bindings: Marker Griffon, Look Pivot
                    Full Tilt Boots
                    Past: Revel8 Tanshos, KTPs, Revolts, DLPs, Condors; Spruce Raptors, 120s, Sherpas

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by FightingForAir View Post

                      I need a nice cruiser board for the afternoons. Sounding more and more like a good compliment to these for me is going to be the Spruce 120.
                      .
                      Fighting of Air ,
                      I have a nice 120 for you to try at the Shredfest... I think you have a Spruce riser/release system , , so just a bolt on and go for you , and see how you like it !
                      Boards :
                      Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
                      Boots
                      K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
                      Bindings:
                      Zero Pro Non release Binding
                      Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                      Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
                      Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
                      Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sounds great ... definitely looking forward to it.
                        Skis: Armada JJs, Armada Magic Js and Icelantic Keepers
                        Bindings: Marker Griffon, Look Pivot
                        Full Tilt Boots
                        Past: Revel8 Tanshos, KTPs, Revolts, DLPs, Condors; Spruce Raptors, 120s, Sherpas

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Just a side not here that I didn't think to mention earlier. Both of the boards that I have are 08 models. I know the 09 KTP's have a different flex pattern in the tips. I don't know if that would really affect carving or not, but there it is.
                          RVL8 Condors - The Flex will be with me, always...until I break them

                          Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming... "WOW! WHAT A RIDE!!"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Crazyboy, that was some very nice and helpful reviews on the KTP's & Condors... thank you!
                            The more riders ride different boards and post up reviews, the better.

                            Don't forget skiboardreview.com
                            C U N DA SNOW!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks Shelley, I do what I can. With all the threads that show up about different boards, I think comparisons can be pretty helpful. I'm especially looking forward to the Revolt vs KTP comparison since they are similar in their all-mountain focus.

                              I actually owe Andrew a few reviews and other stuff, but I'm also a fairly proficient procrastinator lol.
                              RVL8 Condors - The Flex will be with me, always...until I break them

                              Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming... "WOW! WHAT A RIDE!!"

                              Comment

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