A Few Skiboarding Questions (Bought Spruce STS 120's)

[Shaymon]

Hello,

I recently found out about snowboarding about 3 weeks ago while looking for shorter Skis. The Skiboards really intrigued me so I read a ton of stuff on these forums. What I came down with was either the Spruce STS 120's, Blunt XL or the KTP.

I emailed Spruce with a couple questions and Jeff responded with a google of info. I ended up going with the Spruce 120 with the Tyrolia SL 100 Binding. Partially because of price, partially because I felt the longer skiboard might feel better and partially because Jeff was incredibly helpful.

So about my Skiing ability. I would consider myself intermediate. I enjoy Green runs and Blues. Black Diamonds do not interest me too much. I can carve down a blue pretty decent. On a black, I get a little sloppy. I cannot really do any park stuff but I really want to. I would LOVE to be able to get some air. Even just a couple feet That is another reason I was interested in the SkiBoards. I am 5'10" and approximately 220 lbs. I ride The cheaper end of the Dynastar skis (163) and use Head GP Ski Boots.


I finally got to try the Spruces out at Welch, MN. When I first put them on, I did not feel comfortable sitting up so high due to the riser. I know it is not much but it sure felt like it. After a bit I was skating around fine. Probably not very graceful, but I could do it. I got off the lift just as easy as skis but when I went down the hill, i just didn't feel as in control and I seemed to feel every bump in the hill. It was just a green bunnyish hill(Heidi's hollow for those that know Welch) I did a couple more runs on that hill but still felt the same. Almost to the point of going and getting my Skis. Finally my son made me leave for the bigger hills. As I was going up the chairlift I remembered Jeff telling me something like "carve often" So we get to the top and head down a blue run. I start carving like crazy and instantly was having a blast. To me it was not like skiing. Almost a mix of skiing and snowboarding(Which I suck at) I liked the sound of the carve. When I got to the bottom my feet and legs BURNED something mad. It is a work out! Almost too much for me. But wow fun!

So after a couple runs, I wanted to try to do some larger carves and pick up some speed. This is where I didn't like the skiboards as much. They just felt a little unstable to me and at one point I caught my right board, spun around and did a nice graceful slide going about 20-25 mph. It was more of a drag and not an edge catch. I went and grabbed my skis thinking maybe it was the conditions. When I went down on my ski's it was like a dream. I will say though that the Skiboards handled WAY better in thick snow than my ski's did. When I say thick snow, it is not powder, it is just 6" of crud on the top that makes your ski's grab(I hate it)


So my questions.....

1- Am I not supposed to be doing any big carves and picking up speed? Or should I always be making quick carves? Do other people have stability issues at speeds between 25-35mph? Will the stability issue at speeds get better over time? Or should I be on something else rather than the Spruce STS 120's?

2- Do all the Skiboards with release bindings sit as high as the Spruce STS 120's? And do people find the non release more comfortable in this "Height" aspect? ( I know I would need a shorter skiboard)

3- If I went with the KTP 101cm or something smaller, would I have even more issues with stability at speeds? I would imagine so.


Thanks for any help here. Also, if someone is near Welch in MN, Mt La Crosse in WI, or Cascade in WI and wants to spend an hour or so with me to maybe tune my riding a bit, I would love it

-Shay

[Courtney]

I don't have any experience with the Spruce boards, but speed is definitely not a problem once you get used to skiboarding, just check out these top speeds!

I've noticed that a lot of skiers ride with their feet closer together than most skiboarders do. This could be part of why you feel unstable, but it's hard to say. I generally skiboard with my feet about shoulder width apart, and keep one foot a few inches forward from the other. Depending on the flex of the boards, you may also need to keep your weight above your feet more. This can sometimes feel unnatural, almost like you're leaning too far forward.

With a little time you should be able to feel comfortable doing anything on skiboards that you would do on skis. Personally, I find the KTPs to be the most stable skiboard I've ever ridden due to the width and stiffness.

[slow]

Welcome to skiboarding and the forum Shay.

The best advice I can provide is give the 120s a few more days on the slopes so you can adapt to them. What I mean by that is you need to learn how to skiboard verses trying to ski the skiboards. Ironically, you will be a better skier once you become a skiboarder.

To be a skiboarder you need to stay on edge, which can be large radius curves or small tight radius curves. Staying flat on cambered skiboards, is not always stable. (Rockered skiboards are more forgiving in this regard.) As for the leg burn, you need to shift your weight forward and gain the confidence that you do not have to weigh the tails to keep the tips up.

1) yes, stay in carves by edging, but alter the radius for desired speed and control. Stay with the 120s for now, they are the SUV of skiboards.

2)You will come to appreciate the riser/binding height when you graduate to wider skiboards. Once again, give it time to adapt.

3)Shorter skiboards generally have smaller radius side cuts so they allow tighter carves. Stick with the 120s IMO.

In short time you will pick it up. Just use them as skiboards, not skis.

[slow]

BTW: I hope to make it to Welch one of the days of the President's Day long weekend. I will let you know when once my plans are firmed up.

[Shaymon]

49 MPH Backwards? You are crazy lol.

Thanks for the info Courtney and Slow. I know it sounds crazy but only being on the Skiboards for an hour and a half, when I got back on my Skis I felt I could carve better.

I may have my feet too close together and I am not sure where my weight is. I want to say it is more over my feet but can't say for sure.

I will make a conscious effort to stay on edge and see how that goes.

If I am going straight down a hill, is it possible to stay on an edge like a snowboarder? Or should I not even do that?

The riser gets caked with snow. Should I be cleaning these off or does that extra weight matter much?

Again, thanks for all the help.

Definitely message me if you go to Welch. That would be great. Not sure if I get notified via email when I get a message on here though.

Shay

[Wookie]

So my questions.....

1- Am I not supposed to be doing any big carves and picking up speed? Or should I always be making quick carves? Do other people have stability issues at speeds between 25-35mph? Will the stability issue at speeds get better over time? Or should I be on something else rather than the Spruce STS 120's?

Most skiboards, including the 120s, have a tighter turning radius than the average ski. So they will naturally want to make a tighter turn when on a true carve. That may feel unnerving at first. You can either let the boards slide a bit to widen the turning radius or make short quick carves with their natural radius. The 120s are also particularly soft and springy. This is great for "suspension" when riding through crud but can feel a little disconnected when locked into a turn. As Slow suggests ride them a little more and you will feel better on them. If you still feel unstable use a wider, lower, more skaterlike stance that I think Courtney is eluding to.

I have ridden my 120 at speeds well over 40 mph. They should be fine at speed once you get used to them

2- Do all the Skiboards with release bindings sit as high as the Spruce STS 120's? And do people find the non release more comfortable in this "Height" aspect? ( I know I would need a shorter skiboard)

Yes and no. All skiboards with demountable release bindings do sit as high but that's because spruce risers are the only option for demountable bindings. There are some skiboards by Summit and others where the release bindings are direct mounted by my feeling is you lose performance and can't exchange bindings. Over time you don't notice the riser height and it will actually help you get on edge easier -- more leverage!

3- If I went with the KTP 101cm or something smaller, would I have even more issues with stability at speeds? I would imagine so.

Some of the fastest skiboarders rider boards shorter than the 120s. The KTPs are partcularly stiff and as such are good speed carvers. IMHO they are better carvers than the 120s but the 120s are a great all mountain SUV (as Slow puts it).


The 120s where my go to boards when I started skiboarding. They are still one of my favorites. I did notice that you mention your legs where burning. This happened a lot when I started and does not happen any more and I don't think it's because I am in better shape. I find that I let the boards do the work now. If you are braking a lot and steering the skiboards rather than letting the sidecut do the work it will wear your legs out. Once you get to know them you'll be cruising with little to no fatigue.

One last tip. If you keep catching an edge on the 120s try detuning the tips and tails (just dulling the first few inches of the leading/trailing edges). This will make them less catchy and the only change I would suggest to the box stock set-up.

[Shaymon]

Thanks Wookie. Yeah I am probably braking and steering the boards. I'll have to browse the forums more and maybe look at how to initiate turns. I am probably doing it wrong.

I might try to hit Mt. Lacrosse tonight. Can't beat $14 lift tickets even though the hill is meh.

[ElkCloner]

This video helped me when I was learning:

I like to pretend I am a gorilla.

[Bad Wolf]

Thanks Wookie. Yeah I am probably braking and steering the boards. I'll have to browse the forums more and maybe look at how to initiate turns. I am probably doing.

Skiboards have a great reputation for being self learning tools. You seem to be bringing a lot of technical thoughts from your skiing experience, which may be holding you back. The next time you got out try to really relax and just go with whatever feels natural, don't try to force any specific techniques. I think you will find that skiboards will give you the feedback required to get the most out of them. Maybe just focus on being balanced over the boards and let the mountain do the rest.

[Wookie]

Thanks Wookie. Yeah I am probably braking and steering the boards. I'll have to browse the forums more and maybe look at how to initiate turns. I am probably doing it wrong.

Some resources to look at for turn/carve initiation:

Japanese Carving Video -- not in English but you don't need to understand the audio to get the idea. The single leg carve drill is very good to understand the natural turning radius on skiboards. I do this all the time when I try a new board or switch boards.

Sofa Ski School Carving Vid -- While meant for skiers the technique is the same. The hand on one knee drill will eliminate any steering.

I might try to hit Mt. Lacrosse tonight. Can't beat $14 lift tickets even though the hill is meh.

Even for a dumpy hill $14 is a good deal!

[Shaymon]

Thanks Elk Cloner for the video. I remember finding that video and then turning it off as I didn't understand what he is saying. I will try that knee deal.

Bad Wolf, yeah I think you are right. I will try to go with the flow

Thanks again Wookie, I will check those links out!

[Bluewing]

I spent a lot of time on Spruce 120 STSs until moving to Spruce Sherpas. My daughter skis the 120s now. It is always hard to give precise advice without seeing what is happening, but the comments here are all good things to consider.

A few thoughts of mine:

1. I find with the 120s and Sherpas even that I want to have all of my weight stacked right over top of my boots. It is a different stance than skiing. I ride a lot with a friend who skis and we are of almost equal size and ability. He is always in a very forward posture, which is required for skis. I am much more upright keeping my hips in tight and really focusing on getting my weight right down into my boots. With the 120s (and Sherpas) once I had them figured out it feels like there is a "power zone" from mid boot to the tail of the ski. I am not saying ride in the backseat but for me that is where the power seems to concentrate in the carve.

2. As others have pointed out, don't ride backseat with your weight on your heels. That is probably why you were getting leg burn. I had this issue when I first started skiboarding 4 years ago. I was constantly trying to pull up my toes in my boots feeling the need to lift the tips of my boards. The 120s will glide over whatever is in front of you so no need to weight the tails. In fact due to their soft flex weighting the tails will have a negative effect on handling and ride quality. For me at 5 ft 9 in tall and 170 lbs I can easily compress the tails when riding and bottom the board out on the bottom of the back of the riser which acts as a doorstop then and makes the ride harsher.

3. 120s are shorter than the skis you are riding so they likely may always feel a bit more lively. I don't think there is anyway for a shorter board to ski as damp as a longer ski if they are of similar flex, etc. I think it can take some skiers a bit of time to adjust to a livelier ride. In some ways that is part of the fun I find in skiboarding - it is more engaging that way than just rocketing down runs on some super stable, super damp device that is kind of ho hum in terms of engagement and fun factor.

4. Give it some time and keep experimenting a bit. It took me 4 times out to adjust to the 120s when I first got them. Now I was going from a 110cm set of boards to 120s but still it was a big adjustment. I really didn't take to the 120s until the end of the third time out of them when I knew at that point I was close to figuring them out.

[Shaymon]

Thanks Bluewing. that is great info as well. I am having a hard time picturing my stance and if I put weight on my heels. I will definitely take note next time I am out. I was hoping to go tonight but the wind was whipping pretty hard. Hopefully I will get out Saturday.

Again, thank you all for the help. This forum is pretty amazing.


Shay

[Kocho]

It took me several days to adapt enough to skiboards to a point where I prefer them to skis. You need a much finer fore-aft balance on them. Especially with shorter ones - I ride the 94cm Head Rod skiboards. I was apparently a better skier than you, only staying on the blacks, yet it took some adjusting for me. And now I'm "better" on my skiboards than I was on skis (except in soft conditions, where my boards are too small for my 190lb). Keep at it for a while and as said, try to see what works for you in terms of adapting your style. This season I get less tired on the skiboards than usual, even though I ride them harder than last year. Improvement in balance transferred over to my snowboarding too, making it easier and more enjoyable. And learning to carve and balance on a snowboard definitely gives me ideas and added confidence on the skiboards. So, nothing wrong with cross-training and swapping back and forth to skis or snowboard. It only serves to highlight differences, so you will more quickly find out what to change and improve in your technique to better master each tool. Or what works for both and emphasize it in your riding.

Lastly, skiboards are easier to ride casually than skis and snowboards, and thus are quite good at masking errors and sloppy technique, other than balance. So switching to long skis or a snowboard I think is a good idea from time to time.

[graeme]

An extra thought for you:
I always hated the riser height so went direct mount and got rid of the riser, much better feeling in my opinion.