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Sherpa vs. Raptor vs. Blunt XL - which is best *for me*?

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  • Sherpa vs. Raptor vs. Blunt XL - which is best *for me*?

    Greetings everyone – my first post here!

    I’d appreciate some feedback on what boards would suit my needs best. Me: 190-200lb, 6’4”, size 15 foot (369mm boot), 45 yrs. male, good shape. Been skiing for most of those years (just perhaps about 10 days each year though) and added snowboarding a few years ago. Last year bought Head Rod 94 and I’ve been riding them almost exclusively (with the snowboard, Head Transit at 160cm+, as an alternative for softer and slushier conditions).

    I’m riding mostly small groomed East Coast resorts, where the snow is almost exclusively man-made, hard, often soft or slushy on warmer days. I wouldn’t exclude a trip or two to a “real” ski area in the near future, but those would be one-off situations. I really like to fairly aggressively carve down smooth slopes at often fairly high speeds, with very little of doing anything else on the slopes. No deep powder, no off-piste. I pretty much only ride the steepest black diamonds these smaller resorts have to offer, and wouldn’t be intimidated by something harder, as long as it is groomed. I very occasionally venture on the moguls and park, but that’s way down on the priority list.

    I find the Head Rods a bit stiff and can’t seem to make them carve cleanly (even when they actually are carving without sliding – just the shape with stiff wide tips never seems to conform to the snow well on edge). They seem to do great in firm conditions (not super firm though), where their stiffness matches the firm snow well. And of course, when it gets soft, they can’t carry my weight and sink down. I have no issues with their speed and stability and they work very well for relaxed sliding turns for me – as I mentioned, the only real issues are carving and softer groomed conditions. The find the Head Rods are actually pretty good for casual riding: well made, easy to ride, adjustable, nice looking, though a bit heavy.
    That said, let me get to the point. For mainly carving down groomed East Coast slopes (often fairly aggressively and fast), what skiboards you think will be best?

    I’m thinking about the Spruce Mountain Raptor and Sherpa models as well as the Revel8 Blunt XL. Anything else? Which of these three would be the best carver? I understand that maneuverability is going down from XL  Raptor  Sherpa and the situation is reversed for bad conditions. Still, from what I read, any of these will float me better on soft days compared to the Head Rods. I may go in a hear or two for a 2 boards setup, one for good firm conditions and one for softer and messier days, but I would like to focus on the “good” days first.

    I’ve never ridden rockered skiboards and am not sure how they handle more dynamic skiing, such as quick turns where you unweigh the skis, jumping from one turn into the next turn vs. a cambered design with more “pop”. I realize the flex distribution also has a lot to do with it, so I’m not trying to overanalyze it theoretically – rather you tell me how they handle and which will you pick in the various situations above.

    Thoughts? Raptor and Sherpa are attractively priced direct from Jeff’s web site, the XLs are out of stock and more $ than I’d like to spend with risers (but still under consideration). Again, carving on good firm or soft groomed snow is the priority (I can handle long regular skis just fine on the same black diamonds, but like the easy feel of short boards, so a bit worried about the longer and heavier Serpas might lose some of this feel).

    Thanks!

  • #2
    Welcome to the forum! Great details in your post - very helpful. A bunch of people on the forum, myself included, started or have used Head 94s in their various names. They are fun to start but have some serious limitations as you point out.

    I think you are going to have a blast on modern, high performance skiboards. Pretty much any of the RVL8 or Spruce boards would be good and you would have fun on them.

    A few suggestions based on the information you provided and my experience:

    --Blunt XLs - yes, they are sold out and may not make a return this season - not sure if Greco (the owner of SBOL and RVL8) has any more on the way. I haven't ridden them, but do own the Blunts. Based on what people have said on the forum who own the XLs they are great. Can carve if that is your thing, slarve if that is your thing or anything in between. I find the zero camber rockered boards a bit harsh in the East Coast hardpack, especially if the grooming sucks or it is chewed up refrozen at night. But, everyone has a different level of tolerance.

    --Raptors - I rode the prototypes and pre-production models - nice boards but for me I think they are specialty boards for soft snow conditions. I did not like them at all in harder snow conditions and really didn't like them at all in frozen hardpack, especially if it was chopped up.

    --Sherpas - a quiver of one for sure; they carve, they sideslip, you ride them slow or let them rip. At your size and skiing background you might really enjoy the Sherpas a lot. And, as you point out, buying them direct from Spruce with the Pro Sport risers is an awesome deal.

    Other Boards:

    --KTPs - if you like to carve these are carving machines from what I read on the forum. A big board in a small package.

    --Spruce 120s - I have these and have skied them a lot but don't ski them anymore - a bit too soft and not the best when it gets chopped up, bumped up and icier. Others on the forum taller and heavier than me ride these and love them. Mine are now being used by my daughter.

    Other Considerations:

    --You have big feet - I think outside of the maximum out-of-the-box boot sole length the Spruce risers will handle. However, Jeff, the owner of Spruce, has worked with people on the forum in the past to get risers custom set-up for large sized boots. You will likely need to give Jeff a call and discuss your parameters and see what he can do. He is a great guy who offers tremendous customer service.

    --The Pro Sport risers are the least expensive in the Spruce line-up and are fine. I have used them for quite a while with zero issues. However, if you are looking for a binding that can be adjusted to be a little more "direct" take a look at the Pro Prime Plus model - the toe piece is from the AAA-Series of Tyrolia bindings and provides great lateral support and can be adjusted horizontally to really dial in the fit with the toe piece of the boot. They are pricey but people on the forum who ride them love them.

    --Hang onto the Head 94s - they make great loaner boards. I sold one pair of mine and gave the other away. Regret not having a set for loaners.

    --Let us know what you get and post up a review in the Gear Review section.

    Good luck
    In pursuit of Peace, Harmony and Flow.....
    Think Like a Mountain

    Boards ridden, some owned: Sherpas, Spruce 120 "STS", Blunts, DS110 custom prototypes, Rockered Condors, Revolts, DLPs, Summit Custom 110s, Summit Marauders, Head 94s, Raptor prototypes, Osprey prototypes.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm pretty close to your dimensions...6'4" 185#. Haven't tried any of the three boards you mention but I can attest to the abilities of the KTPs in hardpack, ice, manmade and groomed runs. Pretty much fantastic in those areas.
      ------------------
      2020 Spruce Slingshots
      2015 KTPs
      2009 Allz 94cm
      2003 Snowjam 90s

      Comment


      • #4
        If you want to upgrade from the Heads but keep the "easy feel of short boards" I would consider the pro models. The KTPs, Slapdash, Revolt and DLPs are all cambered and relatively stiff. They would all be great carvers for the man made conditions you are describing. They will also suit you well for your rare trips into the park and bumps and have enough float to give you a chance in powder.
        Just these, nothing else !

        Comment


        • #5
          Considering where the thread is heading I'll chime in. I rode KTPs with non-release bindings for 5yrs or so, fantastic boards. Stiff and fast as hell, but maybe it's me being lazy I found them tough to carve properly. Pretty sure it's me being lazy...

          Picked up some Sherpas this year, I've only been out on them twice but I love em. The feel a lot like the KTPs but I find them easier to carve. They are stiff, fast, and almost force me to go faster to enjoy them. I think this is a length thing since I'm used to shorter boards etc. I went with the Pro Prime Plus binding and they are awesome.

          I used some Spruce 120s as well and on ideal groomed snow they were great, but I struggled A LOT on chopped up snow.

          Considering your detailed explanation I'm sure you'll be loving a Sherpa or KTP setup.
          Red Square Sherpas

          Comment


          • #6
            Seems like everyone has a different top choice I had made-up my mind for the Sherpa and called to order them, but talking with Jeff from Spruce Mountain we decided the Raptor will probably suit me better most of the time. So I'll go with that.

            I was really concerned with the statement above that the Raptors felt like a "specialty boards for soft snow conditions. I did not like them at all in harder snow conditions and really didn't like them at all in frozen hardpack, especially if it was chopped up". That was what lead me to lean towards the Sherpa, as I'm sure they will do better there. That was until I spoke with Jeff and he helped me rethink my priorities (didn't change what I thought about the Raptor or Sherpa, but what I think I should be looking for).

            Anyhow, thank you for your input! Hopefully, I'll have them soon and will report back about how I find them.

            Comment


            • #7
              No worries--you made the right choice. For your priorities: carving fast on groomed snow and keeping that "easy feel of short boards," the lighter Raptors will be fantastic!
              '07 "soft" ALPs
              Eyeball DLPs
              125 LEs
              Ospreys mounted bindings
              Crossbows
              Spruce riser release bindings
              Sometimes borrower of Chad's spare Blunt XLs

              Comment


              • #8
                Switching the topic a bit. Today I had a chance to ride a fellow SBOL rider's Sherpas back to back with my Raptors. It was cold, probably 12F (was 4 earlier). And very hard man-made snow. Groomed, little to no ice but fast hard-pack.

                With the Raptors I was enjoying myself - carving hard, slarving, skidding - all worked well and with control and precision. I had as much or as little grip as I wanted: from pure carved turns to skidding hockey stop and anything in between. Never felt the skis would skid out from under me and the transitions from slightly chopped hard pack to cleanly groomed hard or slight ice or to deeper chopped snow was stable without any unnerving skidouts or edges catching or releasing unexpectedly. Basically, with the same edge angle I felt stable during an entire turn even if the surface changed several times from soft to hard or the other way around.

                Then I switched to the Sherpas. First impression was that they were "slow" against the snow as they were not recently waxed (vs. my Raptors were waxed about 10 skiing hours before). The Raptors were much more slippery, the Sherpas were almost sticky. But that's not the main issue I had with them. The problem was I felt terribly insecure with the Sherpas. On slightly skied and deeper snow they felt great, with lots of support and stability. On "bald" hard pack without loose snow on top (but not true ice) they would skid out from under me. They required very strong edge angle to begin to grip there and even then I did not feel safe. So I could not relax and enjoy them. I had to slow down and manage most of the slope with careful skidded turns for fear I might hit a firm patch while carving and skid out of control.

                What gives? Were they just not sharpened or the bevel edge too mild? Visually, the edges looked sharp and not worn out. I could not tell a difference vs. my Raptors as to the bevel edge angle. But that maybe hard to eyeball, especially for someone inexperienced as I am. I'm 190lb before equipment and 6'4" and I thought I can load them OK, but compared to the Raptors they had no grip at all on the hard surfaces... Worst, because they felt so stable on the softer snow, the transition and skidding out from under me mid-turn felt very unnerving. Probably if I skied them with a LOT of edge, they'd grip, but that much edge did not feel natural and wasn't necessary on the Raptors... I did not have a problem edging them, just they needed more edge than I expected was needed.

                Thoughts?

                Comment


                • #9
                  I can ride Sherpas confidently in any type of condition including hard snow, frozen hardpack and icy conditions. I have found that when the surface is at its hardest and iciest I need to make sure I keep all of my weight stacked right above my boots, keep the Sherpas closer together and stay balanced right over top of them and imagine "driving" my weight straight down through them into the snow. I also keep my arms in closer and hands lower and closer in. Much more of a strong ankle roll type turn with strong edging in order to get them to bite and keep them biting. It seems to take me a few runs in a very hard condition until I can get the specific form for that condition dialed in. I also tend to take shallower turn angles in very hard conditions to keep the edges in.
                  In pursuit of Peace, Harmony and Flow.....
                  Think Like a Mountain

                  Boards ridden, some owned: Sherpas, Spruce 120 "STS", Blunts, DS110 custom prototypes, Rockered Condors, Revolts, DLPs, Summit Custom 110s, Summit Marauders, Head 94s, Raptor prototypes, Osprey prototypes.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The Raptors are known for their insane edge grip. For me it is actually too much but that is another post. Here is are my thoughts:

                    The Raptors are a zero camber rockered narrow waisted skiboard and when you lay them on edge, even at modest speeds/pressure the center of the skiboard locks in. The Sherpas, while having some rocker are cambered under foot and wider than the Raptors. The width makes them slower getting from edge to edge throughout a turn (relative to the Raptors) and the cambered center needs pressure to aggressively engage like the Raptors.

                    I rode the Sherpas once and felt that if I casually rode them they didn't feel right. If I aggressively pushed them they responded.

                    As in all things the key to skiboarding is finding a set-up that matches your style. The Raptors may just be better suited for your riding style than the Sherpas.
                    Boards:
                    2016 Spruce tuned Head Jr. Caddys - 131cm
                    2013 Spruce "CTS" 120s
                    2010 Spruce "Yellow/Red" 120s
                    2018 Spruce "CTS" Crossbows - 115cm
                    2016 RVL8 Spliffs - 109cm
                    2008 RVL8 Revolt "City" - 105cm
                    2017 RVL8 Sticky Icky Icky - 104cm
                    2011 Defiance Blades - 101cm

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      All good info about the Sherpas and I think it jives with what I felt, though I don't think the width played a role there - they just needed more edge angle for me.

                      I just noticed today after coming back from a 4-day ski trip, that my Raptors are a bit concave underfoot (not camber, which goes front to back, I mean mini-camber side to side). They are flat side to side in the area where they are rockered (away from the riser area), and are slightly concave side to side in the area underfoot. Hope I'm explaining it well - don't have a photo handy. Will probably upload tomorrow.

                      As for the strong edge grip on the Raptors - I don't mind: they seem to be very willing to slide sideways too, if asked to do it, so locking an edge inadvertently hasn't been an issue for me. Best of all, in the 5 days or so I've skied them, they have not yet surprised me with grip when I don't want it or lack of it when I want it.

                      Lastly, whether I figured out how to do it or whether it is the Raptors, I stopped experiencing the hopping leg syndrome during hard carved turns on firm snow. So, whatever the reason was with the Heads (and my first hours with the Raptors), I seem to be over it now

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I thought it would be interesting to revisit this post three years later ...

                        Having sold the Raptors (a bit too soft for my liking, and a somewhat harsh ride on hard man-made snow) and having tried a bunch of skiboards over the years, I've come back to try the Sherpas this winter. I did try someone's pair two years ago, but they were not tuned well at all - really inconsistent in grip when transitioning from frozen to hard pack to soft snow. They were scary to ride. So I moved on to other boards.

                        Fast forward to this week. Jeff sent me a pair that is tuned to perfection - very sharp and smooth edges, flat bases. These are nothing like the pair I tried before. They grip great on ice yet release the edge well. These do ski more like skis than like short skiboards, but at 130cm they are short enough to maneuver easy, yet wide enough to provide decent support in soft conditions.

                        Great in soft snow moguls, excellent on iced patches, perfect on packed powder. Haven't tried them in deep powder, where I think the Ospreys might be better.

                        Overall, excellent boards that will let an experienced skier have fun. Not sure if a beginner would be intimidated or benefit from them, especially if lightweight.

                        They can be skied casually and I don't find them difficult or requiring an aggressive approach to ski casually. But they sure reward you if you do ski them aggressively - they can handle it. They are long and stiff and wide as far as skiboards go, so something like the 120 or SII or Crossbow would offer an easier to ski experience for a beginner or a small person. However, ultimately I find such mellower boards limiting in some situations. The Sherpa gave me confidence to ski in ways I've only been able to do on regular sized skis, something shorter skiboards can't offer. And more, due to the short length and turn radius (compared to skis), allowing to experiment with agile short turns and bumps and generally have more fun per foot than with longer skis in most situations.

                        I can't speak for park riders as I don't do much park at all, but for aggressive riding on priste I am very happy (and probably will be off-piste, have yet to try them there)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sherpas are great boards! I didn't always feel that way. I bought the first model when it came out. I think it was in 2008. I didn't keep them long. I just couldn't get use to their size coming from riding mostly sub 100cm LINE boards. Three seasons ago after having tried a dozen or more boards at different lengths and widths, I was ready to give the Sherpas another chance. This time I immediately clicked with them and discovered how well they handled all conditions (except for ice), but no skiboard handles ice like a longer narrower ski. I eventually ended up with three sets of Sherpas because I enjoyed them so much.

                          Anyhoo, I just parted with one of my pairs as they found a new home with Slow. I hope he really takes to them. I still have two sets of 2013s. One I have center mounted for harder packed conditions. The other is set back for tackling powder and following Jack in the trees and down the moguls.
                          Boards/Bindings:
                          2013 Spruce Sherpas w/Tyrolia Peak 11s
                          2023 Spruce Stingers w/Tyrolia Peak 11s
                          2015 RVL8 Blunt XLs w/Tyrolia Attack 13s
                          2020 RVL8 Sticky Icky Ickys w/Tyrolia SX 10s


                          Boots:
                          Salomon X-Pro 80

                          Past boards: Salomon Snowblades, Line MNPs 89 & 98 cm, Five-Os, Bullets, Jedis, Spruce 120s, LE 125s, Ospreys, Crossbows
                          Summit 110s, Nomads, Jades, RVL8 ALPs, BWPs, KTPs, Tanshos, Rockets, DLPs, Blunts, Condors, RCs, Revolts, Spliffs

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            For ice, it is important to have good tuning. The pair I have is great on the hard ice that glares up on cold days in the mid-Atlantic man made snow. As much hold (or as little) as needed. Better than any of my shorter skiboards, and I did not feel the need for more.

                            Was skiing the Western Territory in Snowshoe yesterday, frozen after a full day of heavy rain. This is one of their black slopes, not terribly difficult, but steep enough to begin to feel limitations of short boards and poor tuning on the steeper sections. Plus it is fairly long, something like 1,200 vertical feet with decent steepness, so if the board is too demanding, this slope will tire you quick. I had n problems at all and enjoyed the different sections thorougly. There was a steep small moguls section forming, there were not so steep fast and wide sections to open-up speed, some short steeper segments to test short turns and speed control on icy steeps, and some decently steep packed powder segments too. Tried different skiing styles and the boards behaved very well - no surprises, gave back what I wanted from them.

                            In comparison, the other pair I tried a couple of years ago also had sharp edge (not as sharp, but OK) but maybe the angles were off, or bases were high, or who knows what, but it needed a lot of angulation and pressure to bite on ice than it did on hard pack. It did bite enough, but because it required a significant change to ski on ice vs non ice how, transitions between my normal skiing on non frozen patches and icy patches were scary - it took me 3 times longer to get down some easy black/blue slopes than normal... I was skiing the Raptors back then, and with them I enjoyed the same conditions ... With this current pair, no issues (just like with my other skiboards I currently own, they are seamless to transition from snow to ice and don't just slide out uncontrollably).

                            Serious long boards for tough conditions. I agree, shorter boards are different, these are more ski-like than any other skiboards I have, except perhaps the Ospreys (which feel small compared to skis, but like the Sherpa also ski big compared to short boards, but have a completely different characteristics on the slope).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              XLs are one of my favorite boards. But after spending a day on Raptors I am thoroughly impressed. They are smoother on hard pack and are stable at higher speeds where XLs would chatter. They are quicker edge to edge and spin on demand. Seriously fun boards.

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