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  • #16
    Originally posted by Zach View Post
    Badwolf:

    length doesn't matter...it's all about girth!

    Just ask any woman;-)


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    My Lines are long and skinny and my Jades are short and fat; they both get the job done!
    Just these, nothing else !

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Bad Wolf View Post
      It's all about the length.

      They have to be short enough that you no longer need ski technique, release bindings, brakes or poles.

      For me that is 99cm or under, then I feel like I'm not skiing anymore. Taller people, or better skiers, may stretch that out to 105cm or even 110cm, but at some point it becomes obvious when you are skiing and not skiboarding anymore.
      Well, under that definition what I do is not skiboarding then since I ride 120s with release bindings that have brakes, use poles and ride with a skier style and technique. Now I am quite possibly a man without a country. The skiers won't have me because my planks are too short and have way too short of a turning radius and the skiboarders won't have me because my boards are too long and are too much like skis.
      In pursuit of Peace, Harmony and Flow.....
      Think Like a Mountain

      Boards ridden, some owned: Sherpas, Spruce 120 "STS", Blunts, DS110 custom prototypes, Rockered Condors, Revolts, DLPs, Summit Custom 110s, Summit Marauders, Head 94s, Raptor prototypes, Osprey prototypes.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Bluewing View Post
        Well, under that definition what I do is not skiboarding then since I ride 120s with release bindings that have brakes, use poles and ride with a skier style and technique. Now I am quite possibly a man without a country. The skiers won't have me because my planks are too short and have way too short of a turning radius and the skiboarders won't have me because my boards are too long and are too much like skis.
        I don't think there is anything wrong with that; what you call it doesn't change the fun you are having.

        The one thing that Skiboarding has done is opened up peoples eyes to breaking convention and trying something different and new. Skiboarding has become the catalyst for change that Snowboarding used to be. Having said that, I don't think that just because you are not skiing, then you are automatically Skiboarding. "Skiboarding" isn't a catch all phrase. I like the term "Longboards" that Spruce has coined, not Skiing and not Skiboarding, but Longboarding. It identifies a style of skiing that has developed out of Skiboarding. And, as our Skiboards get wider and wider, we may well develop a new sport that is closer to Snowboarding, Wideboarding?

        We don't have to make categories and put people in them, but it is human nature to do so. It also helps to define the sport, promote it and help to educate others. It's noticeable how quick Skiboarders are to deny Snowblading. And what about all those folks on mini skis like the LK Pros and Magics; they are not Skiboards, so what are they doing?

        I know we've said it over and over, but what you call it and how you do it is not as important as the fun you have doing it.
        Just these, nothing else !

        Comment


        • #19
          This same topic seems to come up every year or two, and every year or two the same debate unfolds in new packaging. Ultimately, my answer to this is why does it matter what you call the boards on your feet, but for those of you who feel like reading a short novel, I'll explain further.

          When I first got into skiboarding, the real characteristic that defined skiboards was that they were under 100cm. Initially I rented snowblades for a couple of seasons before I started doing research online to find out more about the sport. That was when I came across this forum. The reigning boards at the time were the Line MNPs and Canon M7's (along with the Line Weapons, 5/0's, Canon Heritage/H-Series, and a few others). These both were 99cm boards, albeit measure slightly differently, but the important part was that number. In the next few years, a few pushes forward were made. The first company broke the 100cm boundary when Mix made the first ALPs. When this happened, there was a HUGE debate in the skiboard world regarding if they were skiboards or not. At the time, I was very firmly of the view that skiboards should stay under 100cm in order to keep a pure and clear dividing point between skiboards and skis since they were two very different beasts. Then as Mix/Epic went away, the next couple of players to emerge were Loken and Revel8.

          When Loken and Revel8 came out, I didn't have the money to afford a new pair of boards, but I swore up and down to myself that I would buy a pair of the Loken El Bajongs/CT8's since they fit the guidelines of a true skiboard and that these new 105cm Revolts had pushed the limit too far. Then as time went along, the reviews slowly filtered in, along with pictures of these boards next to some of the old standards. Everyone seemed to love them, and visually they didn't really seem like that had that much more length over the old 99cm boards. The next season when I had the money to buy boards, I decided to give the longer boards a try based on all the positive hype (although I still regret never getting a pair of Lokens, particularly with their reputation being as stiff as 2x4s).

          The first time out on the EMPs, I was blown away. They still had all the maneuverability of the short boards but still managed to retain that longer board feel. After riding them for a season, I revised my opinion. These new 105's were definitely still skiboards. I was a little skeptical if the 110 ALPs could still retain the feel or not, but was not nearly as against the idea as before. Next came the Spruce 120's.

          Once again, when boundaries were pushed, a rift appeared in who thought they were skiboards and who didn't. Some people still argued that under 100cm was the criteria, but most were willing to accept 110. Others said that as long as it felt like a skiboard, it was a skiboard. To me, this is the closest I can get to defining what a skiboard is to me, but at the same time, as I will explain, it is still such a vague term. I didn't get a chance to try the 120's at the time, but then talk of a new behemoth, a 130cm board designed to ride like a skiboard but handle powder better started to surface. I ended up getting a message from Jeff at Spruce asking me if I wanted to try out the prototypes for the Sherpas and based on the fact that I had been surprised at the 105's still feeling like skiboards, I said sure.

          The first day out on the Sherpas was absolutely amazing. It was a Wolf Creek powder day. It had snowed several nights to the point that even the easiest green down that mountain wasn't groomed and had 4-5 feet of untouched powder. Not chop, not crud, not kinda soft tracked out snow, but soft, light powder. These new boards killed it. My first run down was a little shakey getting used to such a big increase, but by the second run, these continued to feel like skiboards to me.

          I also had been given a powder plate to try, so at lunch I tried setting the boards back. For me, this was when the magic disappeared. Once I set the boards back, they lost the skiboard feel to me. They weren't balanced right, so the turning felt wrong. I no longer just hooked into a turn, but actually had to slide the tails out in order to initiate it. At that moment, I thought I had solved what made a skiboard for me. It was that feel that I get when I lock into a turn just right. Every time I had skiied in my life it felt different. But once again, my views were swayed when I tried something new.

          After a couple years on the Sherpas, I had been talking to Jeff about possibilities for new boards, and he had been trying out some of the rockered designs and thought that maybe some of the ski design concepts could transfer over. As such, he had a pair of Armada JJ's that he had put inserts in to see how they handled. He enjoyed them, but felt like they were probably more ski than he needed on the east coast and offered to let me try them. I did and fell in love with them immediately. They locked into that turn almost exactly like the Sherpas, which in turn felt just likeall my skiboards.

          At this point in time, I realized that as hard as I had fought to try to keep that identity of being a skiboarder based on a specific length being the cap that it really didn't define skiboards. Nothing really did. All of these boards felt similar. The hard definition was once under 100cm. We have just slowly pushed that farther, and the same line has been drawn at 110cm. To me, that means nothing. If I make a pair of boards identical to the ALPs, but 1 cm longer, they're no longer skiboards? Why not?

          I think the real answer to this question is that we as a sport want to have an identity. We want to be something different, not just part of a greater spectrum. I believe that at one time we were different. When skiboarding first emerged, it was something completely new and novel. At the time, the ski industry was transitioning from the long straight skis to parabolic skis that allowed turns to be initiated more easily. When you compare the two, they really don't fall into the same category. As twin tips started to emerge, things got a bit closer, and as the shapes of both skis and skiboards have evolved in the same general direction, leading to a style of ski that performs similarly to a longer skiboard. Even the cultures have started to meld more and more, as can be seen by the style of riders in both sports, and particularly in the park.

          Now there are ways to look at this. As the two sports combine, we begin to lose our ability to claim we are so different, but at the same time, if the gap closes then skiboarding can become more acceptable to the masses again, which could result in a big boon for the skiboard community and businesses.

          I no longer really pay attention to what is on my feet. I'll grab something out of my quiver based on how I feel that day, the snow conditions, and where I will be spending most of my time, clip in, and ride. Every time, I get the same general feel with some subtle differences. Park days will be on KTPs or Condors. Powder days could be Condors, Sherpas, or JJ's depending what kind of powder, what terrain I will be on, and if I feel like charging or just playfully surfing through the snow. Icy days, usually the KTPs or Sherpas. They all have their benefits and shortcomings, and it is just finding the right balance for the day.

          I don't care what sport I am a part of, because I am enjoying it. The label slapped on it is entirely irrelevant to me, and shouldn't really matter to anyone unless we begin to build up a competitive circuit where regulation becomes necessary in order to keep some division from ski competitions.
          I do it because I can.
          I can because I want to.
          I want to because you said I couldn't.

          "The butterflies in my stomach have flown up through my throat and learned to love the open air." - World/Inferno

          Spruce Sherpas with Prime Pros
          '08 KTPs

          Comment


          • #20
            short shticks strapped to my feet i throw myself down the mountain with.
            Fox-Trotting - Thrifty Wanderlust & Adventures

            Skiboard Magazine

            Comment


            • #21
              Sub 110 twin tips

              Go Nexus
              Crossbow (go to dream board)
              Most everything else over time.
              Go Android

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Bluewing View Post
                Any product that would meet the specifications such that it either is or could be sold on skiboardsonline.com.
                Adding to this - the marketing tagline at the top of skiboardsonline.com:

                "Skiboards, only skiboards since 1998"

                Mind you all of this is simply an academic discussion. As has been pointed out, it doesn't matter what anybody calls whatever is on your feet - go out and have fun.
                In pursuit of Peace, Harmony and Flow.....
                Think Like a Mountain

                Boards ridden, some owned: Sherpas, Spruce 120 "STS", Blunts, DS110 custom prototypes, Rockered Condors, Revolts, DLPs, Summit Custom 110s, Summit Marauders, Head 94s, Raptor prototypes, Osprey prototypes.

                Comment


                • #23
                  While of course we want to ride skiboards and have fun (if it weren't fun why would we be out there, haha), the title of this thread is called "Dictionary" and begs the question, "What do you label those boards/skis/shred sticks that you wear on your feet and how do you define the technical aspect of them?"
                  I'm a snollerblader.

                  Go big or go home.

                  "Just keep on doin' it if you love it. If you don't, scram!" - Angel Soto, SFA, 1996


                  Comment


                  • #24
                    A skiboard is defined as follows:

                    1) a twin tip
                    a) the tips do not need to be symmetrical
                    b) while there is no minimum tip height general convention suggests that they be greater than or equal to 3cm in height

                    2) snow sliding device
                    a) the device must be primarily designed for use on snow - natural, man-made and a combination of those are acceptable
                    b) the device can be used on other surfaces provided that no snow is available. Acceptable surfaces include artifical snow, such as Snowflex and other similar branded materials, sand dunes, coal slag piles and grassy slopes with without the addition of detergent and/or foam solutions to aid in sliding

                    3) typically designed to be ridden center mounted
                    a) non-centered positions (i.e., setback) are permitted within reason typically assumed to be no more than 8cm setback from center

                    4) with stainless steel insert in which to mount the bindings
                    a) typical acceptable insert patterns are 40mm x 40mm and 40mm x 100mm
                    b) other insert patterns are acceptable as long as there is a binding that will mount to them

                    5) with non-release and release bindings being acceptable with the bindings being made of high quality durable materials that can withstand the rigors of being ridden aggressively
                    a) bindings can accept
                    i) alpine ski boots that conform to the applicable ISO and DIN specifications and conventions
                    ii) hardshell snowboard boots, such as models from Raichle and Deeluxe
                    iii) snowboard boots
                    b) the bindings can mount directly to the inserts or
                    c) the bindings can be mounted on an intermediary device, such as a "riser" or similar baseplate type structure, with the intermediary device then mounted directly to the inserts
                    d) the bindings should have a device that will prevent the occurrence of a "runaway" skiboard should the board become dislodged or otherwise disconnected from the binding; acceptable devices include
                    i) brakes
                    ii)leashes
                    iii) powder cords are acceptable; however, convention suggests these are secondary devices intended to prevent the loss of a skiboard in deep powder conditions

                    6) having a sidecut radius of less than or equal to 10 meters*

                    7) with edges constructed of stainless steel or some other suitably hard and durable material intended to penetrate the snow surface when the skiboard is pressured and/or put on edge

                    8) with base material of a durable material designed to create a low friction sliding surface, such as sintered or extruded p-tex, that is also designed to absorb waxes and various other materials that might be applied to the base to aid in achieving desired sliding characteristics

                    9) with a topsheet that may contain graphics, color schemes or be plain with convention suggesting that the topsheet not have any images, words or themes that would generally be found offensive to the public represented on ski slopes, sidecountry or backcountry

                    10) in the event that any lack of clarity exists as to whether or not a snowsliding device meets these technical criteria, the following "test" will be used:

                    a) Any product is considered a skiboard if it would meet the specifications such that it either is or could be sold on skiboardsonline.com** - it should be noted that this test is intended to exclude snowsliding devices generally labeled as skiblades, snowblades and any snowsliding device of inferior quality that is not durable, is toy-like in its appearance, construction and/or performance or would be considered embarrassing to have strapped on one's feet

                    11) Should there still be a lack of clarity pertaining to whether or not a snowsliding device meets these technical criteria, then the final decision-maker will be Greco, the owner of skiboardsonline.com***
                    a) All decisions are binding with no appeal process
                    b) Greco reserves the right in the future to modify a decision at his sole discretion based on new information, emerging trends and other epiphanies and related events

                    *The 10m sidecut radius parameter's origin is an homage to the Mike Nick Pro (MNP) skiboards, a classic skiboard design from the early days of the sport, which had a sidecut radius of 10m.

                    **Skiboardsonline.com was selected due to its long history of dedication to skiboards as embodied by its marketing tagline of "Skiboards, only skiboards since 1998".

                    ***Greco was chosen due to his longtime commitment to the skiboarding community and to the sport of skiboarding as made evident by his ownership of skiboardsonline.com, his signature line on the forum of "Because Skiboarding Needs A Future Too!", the sponsorship of various levels of skiboard riding teams and other actions contributing to sustaining skiboarding
                    In pursuit of Peace, Harmony and Flow.....
                    Think Like a Mountain

                    Boards ridden, some owned: Sherpas, Spruce 120 "STS", Blunts, DS110 custom prototypes, Rockered Condors, Revolts, DLPs, Summit Custom 110s, Summit Marauders, Head 94s, Raptor prototypes, Osprey prototypes.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by c-smithy View Post
                      ... , wood core , ...
                      That would rule out most of the quality Japanese models, which would not be fair.
                      Current: '20 Spruce Slingshot 119s, '20 Spruce Crossbow 115s, '18 Spruce Osprey 132s (touring), '21 Rvl8 SII 104s, '21 Summit Invertigos 118s
                      Also: '11 Allz Elaila 94s, '12 Rvl8 Rockered Condor 110s, '15 Spruce Osprey 132s , '18 Spruce Crossbow 115s
                      Previous: Gaspo Hot Wax 84s, Mantrax 98s, Summit Nomad 99s, Spruce Yellow 120s, Eman Uprise 104s

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Bluewing View Post
                        A skiboard is defined as follows:

                        1) a twin tip
                        a) the tips do not need to be symmetrical
                        b) while there is no minimum tip height general convention suggests that they be greater than or equal to 3cm in height

                        2) snow sliding device
                        a) the device must be primarily designed for use on snow - natural, man-made and a combination of those are acceptable
                        b) the device can be used on other surfaces provided that no snow is available. Acceptable surfaces include artifical snow, such as Snowflex and other similar branded materials, sand dunes, coal slag piles and grassy slopes with without the addition of detergent and/or foam solutions to aid in sliding

                        3) typically designed to be ridden center mounted
                        a) non-centered positions (i.e., setback) are permitted within reason typically assumed to be no more than 8cm setback from center

                        4) with stainless steel insert in which to mount the bindings
                        a) typical acceptable insert patterns are 40mm x 40mm and 40mm x 100mm
                        b) other insert patterns are acceptable as long as there is a binding that will mount to them

                        5) with non-release and release bindings being acceptable with the bindings being made of high quality durable materials that can withstand the rigors of being ridden aggressively
                        a) bindings can accept
                        i) alpine ski boots that conform to the applicable ISO and DIN specifications and conventions
                        ii) hardshell snowboard boots, such as models from Raichle and Deeluxe
                        iii) snowboard boots
                        b) the bindings can mount directly to the inserts or
                        c) the bindings can be mounted on an intermediary device, such as a "riser" or similar baseplate type structure, with the intermediary device then mounted directly to the inserts
                        d) the bindings should have a device that will prevent the occurrence of a "runaway" skiboard should the board become dislodged or otherwise disconnected from the binding; acceptable devices include
                        i) brakes
                        ii)leashes
                        iii) powder cords are acceptable; however, convention suggests these are secondary devices intended to prevent the loss of a skiboard in deep powder conditions

                        6) having a sidecut radius of less than or equal to 10 meters*

                        7) with edges constructed of stainless steel or some other suitably hard and durable material intended to penetrate the snow surface when the skiboard is pressured and/or put on edge

                        8) with base material of a durable material designed to create a low friction sliding surface, such as sintered or extruded p-tex, that is also designed to absorb waxes and various other materials that might be applied to the base to aid in achieving desired sliding characteristics

                        9) with a topsheet that may contain graphics, color schemes or be plain with convention suggesting that the topsheet not have any images, words or themes that would generally be found offensive to the public represented on ski slopes, sidecountry or backcountry

                        10) in the event that any lack of clarity exists as to whether or not a snowsliding device meets these technical criteria, the following "test" will be used:

                        a) Any product is considered a skiboard if it would meet the specifications such that it either is or could be sold on skiboardsonline.com** - it should be noted that this test is intended to exclude snowsliding devices generally labeled as skiblades, snowblades and any snowsliding device of inferior quality that is not durable, is toy-like in its appearance, construction and/or performance or would be considered embarrassing to have strapped on one's feet

                        11) Should there still be a lack of clarity pertaining to whether or not a snowsliding device meets these technical criteria, then the final decision-maker will be Greco, the owner of skiboardsonline.com***
                        a) All decisions are binding with no appeal process
                        b) Greco reserves the right in the future to modify a decision at his sole discretion based on new information, emerging trends and other epiphanies and related events

                        *The 10m sidecut radius parameter's origin is an homage to the Mike Nick Pro (MNP) skiboards, a classic skiboard design from the early days of the sport, which had a sidecut radius of 10m.

                        **Skiboardsonline.com was selected due to its long history of dedication to skiboards as embodied by its marketing tagline of "Skiboards, only skiboards since 1998".

                        ***Greco was chosen due to his longtime commitment to the skiboarding community and to the sport of skiboarding as made evident by his ownership of skiboardsonline.com, his signature line on the forum of "Because Skiboarding Needs A Future Too!", the sponsorship of various levels of skiboard riding teams and other actions contributing to sustaining skiboarding
                        Incredibly well written. My only two qualms are with lack of length insertion into the definition and giving it all to Greco. I work very closely with G and he is a close friend of mine, but giving it all to the brands only he sells is unfair to the overall world of skiboarding. Lets consider brands that do exist currently as well as past brands no longer sold. Both of those categories do not fall under the retail of www.SkiboardsOnline.com. Summit, TwoowT, Strictly, Blue Morris, and Elan (just to name a few) are current brands in production that have large sales internationally. I like leaving it to the raw definition without the name of companies, retailers, etc… being involved.

                        Other than those two, this was a great base definition with a profound look at detailed aspects.
                        I'm a snollerblader.

                        Go big or go home.

                        "Just keep on doin' it if you love it. If you don't, scram!" - Angel Soto, SFA, 1996


                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Dave Bloom View Post
                          My only two qualms are with lack of length insertion into the definition
                          I am not an engineer or ski designer but I think the length is somewhat self-limiting due to the sidecut radius specification. In order to get a 10m or below sidecut radius the length would seem to become a critical factor because increasing the length means you need to increase tip and/or tail width or decrease waist width to keep the radius small enough. Physic Man's ski radius calculator is not a perfect tool for skiboard sidecut radius, but probably close enough - http://www.websurd.com/epic2004/PMSidecutRadCalc.xls. If you plug the Sherpa's dimensions in - using the Sherpa as the biggest current longboard skiboard - you get a sidecut radius of 8.1 meters. The stated sidecut radius is 7.2 meters. Close enough. If you keep the Sherpa's same dimensions and only change the length the limit is around 145 cm long before you are outside of the 10m radius limit. Sure, you can go longer, but at that point the board may actually not be rideable due to an incredibly wide tip and/or tail and too sharp of a difference between the tip/tail and waist dimensions. Plus, I would think at some point center mounted or close to center mounted on a board there is a limit to how much tail one can have behind them and still ride the board. However, I would also suggest that if someone invented a snowsliding device with whacked out dimensions that still have a sidecut radius less than or equal to 10m that met the other criteria, then why not call that unholy demon lovechild a skiboard and praise anybody who could ride it?

                          Originally posted by Dave Bloom View Post
                          My only two qualms are...giving it all to Greco. I work very closely with G and he is a close friend of mine, but giving it all to the brands only he sells is unfair to the overall world of skiboarding. Lets consider brands that do exist currently as well as past brands no longer sold. Both of those categories do not fall under the retail of www.SkiboardsOnline.com. Summit, TwoowT, Strictly, Blue Morris, and Elan (just to name a few) are current brands in production that have large sales internationally. I like leaving it to the raw definition without the name of companies, retailers, etc… being involved.
                          Any product is considered a skiboard if it would meet the specifications such that it either is or could be sold on skiboardsonline.com - the key statement is that it could be sold - it doesn't have to be but it has to be a product that the site with the tagline "Skiboards, only skiboards since 1998" would sell.

                          Some of this is obviously a bit tongue-in-cheek.
                          In pursuit of Peace, Harmony and Flow.....
                          Think Like a Mountain

                          Boards ridden, some owned: Sherpas, Spruce 120 "STS", Blunts, DS110 custom prototypes, Rockered Condors, Revolts, DLPs, Summit Custom 110s, Summit Marauders, Head 94s, Raptor prototypes, Osprey prototypes.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            To look at this a different way, perhaps it is more important what we are doing, rather than what we are doing it on.

                            Above 110cm, I am definitely skiing. Skiing stance and technique, serious attitude, self conscious, lack of fun.

                            Below 100cm, I am definitely skiboarding. Comfortable stance, natural technique, carefree attitude, loads of fun.
                            Just these, nothing else !

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Bad Wolf View Post
                              To look at this a different way, perhaps it is more important what we are doing, rather than what we are doing it on.

                              Above 110cm, I am definitely skiing. Skiing stance and technique, serious attitude, self conscious, lack of fun.

                              Below 100cm, I am definitely skiboarding. Comfortable stance, natural technique, carefree attitude, loads of fun.

                              I don't think that general statement applies to everyone. I ride 120s as my go to boards and my technique is not a pure serious skiing stance. At 6'5" I probably throw my 120s around in a more carefree way than most shorter riders do on 110s.

                              While size matters (ask my wife) it cannot be the core definition of skiboarding in a black and white sense. If that is the case my 6 yearold on her 100 cm wood core twin tips is a skiboarder. My 9 yearold on her 130 cm wood core twin tips, same model as my 6 yearold, is a skier, right? There is more to it than size. In fact compared to skiing we have chosen a board shorter than conventional ski length for our height. We make the choice to go smaller for a tighter turning radius and a more nimble on mountain experience. That is the core of skiboarding to me.
                              Boards:
                              2016 Spruce tuned Head Jr. Caddys - 131cm
                              2013 Spruce "CTS" 120s
                              2010 Spruce "Yellow/Red" 120s
                              2018 Spruce "CTS" Crossbows - 115cm
                              2016 RVL8 Spliffs - 109cm
                              2008 RVL8 Revolt "City" - 105cm
                              2017 RVL8 Sticky Icky Icky - 104cm
                              2011 Defiance Blades - 101cm

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by pinkkid View Post
                                Freedom, Freedom on the slopes
                                This!
                                6 years ago the only way hubby could get me on the slopes with him was to get me to try saloman snowblades. Now on my alps I have a blast with him on any run (except maybe some double blacks).
                                There may be a technical definition of skiboards out there somewhere, but for my size and riding style I feel like the boards above 110 do have a different feel, though not necessarily in a negative way: discovering how the sherpas ride in powder this year was amazing! But I personally see 110s as the length of boards that give me the freedom to tackle all of the mountain--including steep moguls--free from wishing I had poles, free from worrying about quick enough turns, and free from hesitation!

                                Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
                                '07 "soft" ALPs
                                Eyeball DLPs
                                125 LEs
                                Ospreys mounted bindings
                                Crossbows
                                Spruce riser release bindings
                                Sometimes borrower of Chad's spare Blunt XLs

                                Comment

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