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  • Capped V Sidewall

    Could some one break down the pros and cons of sidewall versus capped construction for me.

    This has come up in a number of different threads recently, and I feel a little lost. I have boards with both types of construction and the main difference appears to be how susceptible the sidewall boards are to edge chipping. I can barely put them into the trunk of the car without loosing a huge chunk off the edge. I camphered the edges of my Summit Customs, but basically had to strip refinish the entire board. The capped Spruces and Jades we have show no signs of wear and my wife's eight year old capped Fischers barely have a mark on them. Based on that one issue alone, I would be reluctant to buy sidewall constructed boards again.

    From what I have researched sidewall ski construction claims to produce a stronger, stiffer board that will take park impacts better, be more stable at speed and have more energy out of turns. Is that still true with our shorter/stiffer skiboards?
    Just these, nothing else !


  • #2
    It looks to me like sidewall construction is simply placing a strip of plastic directly on top of the metal edge where capped construction does not.

    I would think the concept is that the plastic will support the metal edge increasing its durability and edge stiffness.

    I don't see why it would make any difference in overall board stiffness, stability at speed, snap out of carves. If it does have an effect I would think it will be quite negligible when compared to the other parts of the skiboard like the wood core and fiberglass.


    I have noticed that there are never cheap beginner boards with sidewall construction they are always capped. So I tend to use it as an indicator of quality.
    www.skiboardbindings.com GGO Co-Founder

    Check out a review of our bindings http://www.skiboardsonline.com/forum...ad.php?t=13031 (Thanks Rob)

    My setup:
    DLP/Ktps (randomly switch)
    Condors, not rockered (powder/crap conditions board)
    GGO soft boot bindings
    Ride RFL Snowboard Boots

    Comment


    • #3
      From personal experience, sidewall construction is an order of magnitude more durable than capped construction. Before Revel8 popularized sidewall construction on skiboards, virtually all boards were capped. Back in these days, it was very common for boards to delaminate for no apparent reason when ridden hard. I had seen this happen to people their first day riding a pair of boards. This happened to all the old boards... Line, Salomon, Groove, Canon... During this time, the only boards that I could depend on were Line Weapons, which happened to be sidewall construction.

      Looking at the two techniques, physics pretty much guarantee that sidewall is going to be more durable. The downside, as you notice, is that the sidewall makes them more prone to chipping. This is especially common with modern skiboards because they are so wide that it is common to smack them together by accident while riding. Some people have had luck sanding the corners, but I have never tried that.

      Comment


      • #4
        Yup, they pretty much hit the nail on the head. Sidewall construction is a little bit stronger in terms of how it affects the flex (and especially the torsional rigidity). In addition, if something does get damaged in a way that affects the board beyond aesthetics, they are easier to repair. If you blow out the edge or delaminate a cap construction board, it is dead. In many cases, the sidewall boards can be repaired.
        I do it because I can.
        I can because I want to.
        I want to because you said I couldn't.

        "The butterflies in my stomach have flown up through my throat and learned to love the open air." - World/Inferno

        Spruce Sherpas with Prime Pros
        '08 KTPs

        Comment


        • #5
          This is not a post with pros and cons of each but instead provides some links to useful information. There are many reasons for designers selecting sidewall, capped or hybrid construction and I suspect in many (most? all?) cases that design decision is not made in isolation but instead of part of an overall set of design decisions driven by the ride characteristics you are after as a designer and influenced by other factors such as cost targets, etc.

          http://www.mechanicsofsport.com/skii...struction.html - good site with fundamentals of ski construction including sidewall and cap construction. I will note that while I am not an engineer or ski designer I think the statement here of "However the cap construction is not as torsionally stiff giving less edge grip and handling at high speeds" is a broad generalization that might not always hold true since the other materials of construction play a big role in both longitudinal and torsional stiffness. Case in point - both the Spruce 120s and Sherpas have good edge hold - with the edge hold of the Sherpas often described along the lines of being "fierce" - and both are cap construction.

          http://www.skiboardsonline.com/forum...hp/t-7308.html - archive on skiboardsonline.com

          http://www.skinet.com/ski/gear/2009/07/anatomy-of-a-ski- Anatomy of a Ski - Ski mag

          http://www.voelkl.com/skis/technolog...echnology.html; read second entry from top re RTM 80 ski model and what is says about cap construction: "The major difference between the 84 and 80 construction is in the sidewall compared to the cap. The cap construction on the RTM 80 makes this full rocker ski more forgiving and a bit softer in the general ride characteristics yet still delivers the necessary power reserves for athletic skiers pushing their limits."

          Hybrid construction like Line "Capwall" - http://lineskis.com/videos/line-skis...ry=technology;
          In pursuit of Peace, Harmony and Flow.....
          Think Like a Mountain

          Boards ridden, some owned: Sherpas, Spruce 120 "STS", Blunts, DS110 custom prototypes, Rockered Condors, Revolts, DLPs, Summit Custom 110s, Summit Marauders, Head 94s, Raptor prototypes, Osprey prototypes.

          Comment


          • #6
            Ok, Greco needs to start producing capwall skiboards.
            Boards/Bindings:
            2013 Spruce Sherpas w/Tyrolia Peak 11s
            2023 Spruce Stingers w/Tyrolia Peak 11s
            2015 RVL8 Blunt XLs w/Tyrolia Attack 13s
            2020 RVL8 Sticky Icky Ickys w/Tyrolia SX 10s


            Boots:
            Salomon X-Pro 80

            Past boards: Salomon Snowblades, Line MNPs 89 & 98 cm, Five-Os, Bullets, Jedis, Spruce 120s, LE 125s, Ospreys, Crossbows
            Summit 110s, Nomads, Jades, RVL8 ALPs, BWPs, KTPs, Tanshos, Rockets, DLPs, Blunts, Condors, RCs, Revolts, Spliffs

            Comment


            • #7
              Kirk, any idea why sidewall construction reduces delamination?
              www.skiboardbindings.com GGO Co-Founder

              Check out a review of our bindings http://www.skiboardsonline.com/forum...ad.php?t=13031 (Thanks Rob)

              My setup:
              DLP/Ktps (randomly switch)
              Condors, not rockered (powder/crap conditions board)
              GGO soft boot bindings
              Ride RFL Snowboard Boots

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by sempai View Post
                Ok, Greco needs to start producing capwall skiboards.
                Wouldn't capwall be half as "durable" as sidewall construction?
                www.skiboardbindings.com GGO Co-Founder

                Check out a review of our bindings http://www.skiboardsonline.com/forum...ad.php?t=13031 (Thanks Rob)

                My setup:
                DLP/Ktps (randomly switch)
                Condors, not rockered (powder/crap conditions board)
                GGO soft boot bindings
                Ride RFL Snowboard Boots

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by bee View Post
                  Kirk, any idea why sidewall construction reduces delamination?
                  Yeah, and I always thought delamination was brought on by moisture seeping in. If that's the case, I would think it's more likely to happen on a sidewall board than a capped.
                  Boards/Bindings:
                  2013 Spruce Sherpas w/Tyrolia Peak 11s
                  2023 Spruce Stingers w/Tyrolia Peak 11s
                  2015 RVL8 Blunt XLs w/Tyrolia Attack 13s
                  2020 RVL8 Sticky Icky Ickys w/Tyrolia SX 10s


                  Boots:
                  Salomon X-Pro 80

                  Past boards: Salomon Snowblades, Line MNPs 89 & 98 cm, Five-Os, Bullets, Jedis, Spruce 120s, LE 125s, Ospreys, Crossbows
                  Summit 110s, Nomads, Jades, RVL8 ALPs, BWPs, KTPs, Tanshos, Rockets, DLPs, Blunts, Condors, RCs, Revolts, Spliffs

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by bee View Post
                    Kirk, any idea why sidewall construction reduces delamination?
                    Yeah. In cap construction, the cap is stretched down over the sides of the core, and glued down. Where the cap and the edge meet is the weak point. If there is a tiny bit of separation here, the core becomes directly exposed. Even if it is just a tiny bit, this exposure to the direct core causes a weakness. Since there is no sidewall supporting the edges, when riding hard - especially park where you land directly on things - impacts to the edges are transferred directly to the cap, in a direction that would cause separation. After a few times, if a tiny delamination develops, now water has access directly to the core - which will weaken the entire board, causing more serious delamination or eventual breakage.


                    On sidewall construction, the width of the sidewall helps for a couple of reasons. First, the thickness of the sidewall allows for a stronger interface between the topsheet, the edge, and the base. The topsheet isn't being stretched over the sides of the core, and it just lies flat in a naturally neutral form. There is more surface area at all of the joins between the layers to hold together, avoiding cap construction's weak-link where the cap meets the edges and base.

                    Second, the sidewall acts in part as a buffer to damage. If chipping or slight delamination occur, it has to penetrate past the sidewall before it gets to the core. There is just more "material" in the way to get there, by about an order of magnitude - a topsheet is about 1mm, a sidewall is around 1cm. Additionally, since the sidewall is being held to the topsheet, the core, and the edge/base, impacts are transferred to these parts before a single interface failure.

                    Finally, in the event of total failure, sidewall boards generally hold together better and have some degree of ability to be repaired. Once a cap board delams, it is ruined. There is no material to hold the edge in place, and it rips out quickly. If caught early, a delam on a sidewall board can often be glued and pressed to get it to last a good bit longer.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks Kirk, makes sense.
                      www.skiboardbindings.com GGO Co-Founder

                      Check out a review of our bindings http://www.skiboardsonline.com/forum...ad.php?t=13031 (Thanks Rob)

                      My setup:
                      DLP/Ktps (randomly switch)
                      Condors, not rockered (powder/crap conditions board)
                      GGO soft boot bindings
                      Ride RFL Snowboard Boots

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks for the info guys, Makes sense.

                        I guess for a guy like me who won't be in the park of jumping off cliffs, the Cap makes more sense. I would love to see a capped RV8 midsize board as an option for bad knee cruisers who don't have a sander, like me.

                        Is there really no way to get a little better protection on the edges of a sidewall, so we can get the best of both worlds.
                        Just these, nothing else !

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Really, even if I didn't ride park, I would still greatly prefer sidewall boards over cap construction. When you lay a hard carve, the board can flex pretty far. For me, its a piece of mind to know that the edge is being supported by a sidewall, and not pulling against the glue to the topsheet like on cap construction.

                          Years ago during my first season, before parks as we know them even existed, I had a cap construction Salomon board delaminate while I was just carving down a hill. A couple years ago, my girlfriend delaminated a pair of Line 5-0 boards with cap construction, and she is tiny and doesn't ride hard at all. Park isn't the only thing that puts stress on the boards, it is just puts stress on them quicker.

                          After seeing so many cap construction boards fail, I will gladly take higher chances of cosmetic blemishes with sidewall boards over the weaker structural design of capped boards.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by kirk View Post
                            Really, even if I didn't ride park, I would still greatly prefer sidewall boards over cap construction. When you lay a hard carve, the board can flex pretty far. For me, its a piece of mind to know that the edge is being supported by a sidewall, and not pulling against the glue to the topsheet like on cap construction.

                            Years ago during my first season, before parks as we know them even existed, I had a cap construction Salomon board delaminate while I was just carving down a hill. A couple years ago, my girlfriend delaminated a pair of Line 5-0 boards with cap construction, and she is tiny and doesn't ride hard at all. Park isn't the only thing that puts stress on the boards, it is just puts stress on them quicker.

                            After seeing so many cap construction boards fail, I will gladly take higher chances of cosmetic blemishes with sidewall boards over the weaker structural design of capped boards.
                            Kirk you definitely have a ton of experience and many years of knowledge gained on the mountain. Like many things this comes down to a personal choice. I would suggest that modern cap construction is very high quality and durable. Otherwise, I don't think Greco would sell cap construction boards from Spruce, Allz and Snowjam here. I don't have the "proof" but I suspect that these capped boards have an excellent track record of durability. I don't recall seeing any threads here noting Spruce, Allz or Snowjam boards delaminating or cratering in any way due to the cap construction. For me it comes down to what type of ride characteristics I am looking for in a board. Sure, I want a high quality board that will last but the type of construction, type of fiberglass, etc isn't something I am concerned about.
                            In pursuit of Peace, Harmony and Flow.....
                            Think Like a Mountain

                            Boards ridden, some owned: Sherpas, Spruce 120 "STS", Blunts, DS110 custom prototypes, Rockered Condors, Revolts, DLPs, Summit Custom 110s, Summit Marauders, Head 94s, Raptor prototypes, Osprey prototypes.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bluewing View Post
                              Like many things this comes down to a personal choice.
                              You're definitely right here. Sidewall boards cost more to manufacture and they are more prone to cosmetic chipping. I just wanted to clarify that this does translate into a product with a higher degree of structural integrity and torsional rigidity, and that it isn't just a "park or no park" issue.

                              Comment

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