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  • Camping in the backcountry

    Hey all,

    I've got a question - has anyone done any backcountry snowsliding with an external frame backpack? Here's why - I'll be doing some 1 night camping in the backcountry this season. So, skinning/shoeing out all day Sat. and then bringing it back in on Sun.. I've purchased a 4 season tent (a Eureka Alpenlite XT), have the good folks over at Enlightened Equipment making me a "comfortable at -20" down quilt (when I wrote them to ask about it they responded "Um, we've never done that before. The baffling might be an issue." But, after some thought on their side they agreed to do it for me.) The last big item I need to get is a humungous backpack. I'd like to avoid purchasing an internal frame pack I'll only use 5-7 times a year if I can get away with it. I just don't like the idea of something sitting around taking up space like that. If I buy a huge 90+ liter or 5000+ cu in pack for my external frame I can at least lie to myself and say I have an expedition sized pack for year around use. If I buy an internal frame it will be for winter use only. I'll never haul that much in an internal frame pack any other time of year. Winter camping is different than other seasons. The tent is certainly heavier but you need the huge size because your bed and clothing are comparatively huge. Of course, you are hauling more food in the winter but you carry less water because it's all around you. At least, that's what I'm being told. So, I want use my Kelty Cache Hauler frame and slap on one of the massive packs available for it. The question becomes the safety and useability of an external frame pack while snowsliding. Any experience? Insight?
    "It's no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" Jiddu Krisnamurti

    Spruce Sherpa - RVL8 KTP - RVL8 Blunt XL

  • #2
    while I have not used a large external frame pack , some of the guys I have skiied with have . They have even done 7 day winter treks across the Sierra with them. The biggest issue is that they are quite cumbersome to actually ski downhill when packed full if the trip involves technical ups and downs like the Trans sierra trip does. It does take skill and practice to ski downhill with a huge bulky external frame pack and balance is dicier on technical climbing. The issue is that for the same amount of carrying capacity , external frame packs tend to distribute the weight higher up toward the shoulders and away from the body , whereas internal frame packs place the same weight lower down on the back and closer to the body which is a better position for skiing downhill and for difficult climbing where balance is critical. If the trip mainly involves a flat trek to a basecamp and a flat trek out where the pack can be dropped at base camp and then short trips up and down mountains with a small day pack there should be no issue .
    Boards :
    Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
    Boots
    K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
    Bindings:
    Zero Pro Non release Binding
    Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
    Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
    Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
    Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

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    • #3
      jjue,

      Thank you very much for your reply. That sounds very reasonable. I've been told the trips I'll be going on, at least in this first season, will be straight forward affairs with nothing technical planned. However, you hit my main concern - skills and practice. I'll be woefully short on both. Everyone is willing to hold my hand but, the last thing I want to do is show up looking inappropriate. It's one thing to be new, it's another to appear untrustworthy. I guess I'll bite the bullet. I'm not planning on going high end so I could actually ditch the thing come May if I so choose. Again, many thanks.
      "It's no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" Jiddu Krisnamurti

      Spruce Sherpa - RVL8 KTP - RVL8 Blunt XL

      Comment


      • #4
        I ended up purchasing a Kelty Red Cloud 110 internal frame pack from the Amazon Warehouse for $98. They labeled it as used/good condition. But, I purchased another pack (a Kelty 35L Redwing for use as a regular day to day bag) with the same description awhile back and what I received was a brand new bag to include tags still on it. But, the box it came in looked like it had been all but put through a meat grinder. I think it reasonable to assume it was a return item. So, at $98 I'm willing to take the chance this is the same type of deal. Being Amazon, if it arrives in less than acceptable condition I'll simply return it. God, 110L. Huge is an understatement. But, less than a Benjamin for a Kelty (free delivery) - I'll roll the dice.
        "It's no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" Jiddu Krisnamurti

        Spruce Sherpa - RVL8 KTP - RVL8 Blunt XL

        Comment


        • #5
          Just to update this with the input from those around me - Last night, I spoke with one of the guys from the group I will be joining for winter camping this season and gave him an update on what I've purchased. My tent and sleeping quilt had already met with group approval and so the only additional item I had to talk about was my pack. When I told him what I purchased he chuckled. Apparently, the girls tend to carry 50L packs with boys hauling 80L packs. But, I was told that given my size (thus the size of my clothing, bed and tent) that 110L was not a bad call. Unfortunately, while Kelty is not an unknown name here, their packs are not used by anyone. Still, the name was enough to impart an inherent quality. I was told that an Osprey 110 would have likely been a better choice (at more than 4x the cost). Osprey is a known and respected name here in the Land Of The Rising Sun. I was told if the size of the bag becomes a hindrance that the boys would take me shopping. My job will be to bring money - and lots of it. Japanese do not play when it comes to outdoor equipment. The best and only the best is purchased. My Soto Muka stove was accepted with applause (a known, Japanese product) as was my MSR 1.6L stow-away cooking pot. So, we're getting there. Just updating this for anyone else out there who might be gearing up for winter camping. So far, I haven't made any purchasing "mistakes" but will be sure to pass those on if I do with the reasons why the item(s) are not viewed as appropriate.
          "It's no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" Jiddu Krisnamurti

          Spruce Sherpa - RVL8 KTP - RVL8 Blunt XL

          Comment


          • #6
            I received my Kelty Red Cloud 110 the other day. Mint condition. All tags, factory folding and unopened factory sealing all in place. So far, my experience with Amazon Warehouse has been outstanding. But, only 2 purchases and both of them Kelty packs. I'll be having some of the boys help me to make any adjustments to the stays (bending them to fit my torso) soon.

            I've also sent my money away for passes to a few resorts. This year, I will not get a season pass to Kagura as I'll be coming and going more than usual. But, with the help of the guys I'll be chasing behind I ordered some Early Bird, 1 day passes at very steep discounts.

            Plus, my season will be a little less vibrant than I was hoping. I'm returning to college. I was spoke to about a few opportunities that require greater than a 4 year degree to take advantage of and was told I would be forwarded as a positive candidate if I began moving in the right direction. Man, I hope I still have a mind at 46. We'll see.
            "It's no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" Jiddu Krisnamurti

            Spruce Sherpa - RVL8 KTP - RVL8 Blunt XL

            Comment


            • #7
              I broke out my Kelty Red Cloud for the first time last night. Talk about enormous. I packed in absolutely every piece of hiking/camping equipment I own to include 2 tents, 2 quilts, 2 stoves, 2 kitchen pots, the 10 essentials, clothes, food and basically anything else I had sitting around and still had room. I without a doubt had 50+ pounds in the bag and could have tucked in 30 more. I even filled my liter sized Nalgene bladders (3 of them) and threw them in just to have the bag swallow them up like a bottomless pit.

              Now for the downside. The directions on the Kelty website that explain how to adjust the suspension system is outdated. There is good information in the PDF but it references the older model pack of this same size. It lists the Red Cloud as one of the packs the manual is for but when you read it you find yourself looking for components that are not there or you find the way in which something is implemented is different. A little disappointing but you can still benefit from the directions. The real downer came when I slung the pack on for the first time. I try to do things here at home the way I see myself doing them in "the wild". In this case, minus the excessive winds and bone freezing cold. But, I still slipped on gloves as there is no doubt that is exactly how I'll be donning and doffing the rig. Well, Kelty apparently decided to go the way of Osprey with the buckles. If you are 4 years old, the buckles will work great for you. If you have adult sized hands that are gloved, you'll curse just as I did. ALL OF THE BUCKLES are much too small to operate with gloves on and while this can be a personal thing, they are not even readily manipulated with bare hands. I mean, did Kelty really try to shave grams on a bag this size? The bag empty already weighs well over 6 lbs. Anyway, today I'll hit the awesome hiking store near me and pick up replacement triglide buckles for at least the shoulder straps and waist belt. Then it will be off the the ex-MIL's (Mother In Law) house to have the old buckles removed and the new ones sewn in.

              I really dislike needing to modify new equipment like this. I mean, it's different when I know up front I'm using something in a slightly different than intended way or have some circumstance that essentially demands minor modifications be made. But, to cheap-out on an essential component like pack buckles is beyond my understanding. Actually, maybe they didn't cheap-out, rather, put weight ahead of functionality. Either way, bad, bad, bad decision that has miffed me. Kelty is supposed to be "old school". I'm not supposed to have these issues.

              I should add that I have other Kelty products. Namely, their Cache Hauler external frame and Trekker 3900 pack. The buckles on both these products are bear paw friendly.

              I should also add a few positive notes that were pleasant surprises:

              1. The shoulder straps do not rub against my neck. This is definitely a personal thing. I've been told that my in-excess of 20 inch around neck is slightly abnormal. Not for me mind you, just for society in general. I'm growing to accept this as an hereditary anomaly. Ha ha.

              2. The waist belt is fabulous. It is well padded (without being stupid padded) but Kelty also added in what feels like stiff, plastic inserts where the belt wraps around your hips. This provides fabulous support and I believe shows great insight on the part of Kelty. This pack is going to haul weight and that little touch proves Kelty knows that. That is the type of thinking I expect when I buy a Kelty product. Again, the waist belt is a 5-star home run.
              "It's no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" Jiddu Krisnamurti

              Spruce Sherpa - RVL8 KTP - RVL8 Blunt XL

              Comment


              • #8
                Great details to share - thanks. I think it is great you know what functionality you are after and willing to make modifications to have your needs met - in this case replacing some buckles. Better to have the product work for you than stick with an element that doesn't work. Send Kelty some feedback - if they are customer focused their product designers will be interested in hearing what you think works and doesn't work with the pack.
                In pursuit of Peace, Harmony and Flow.....
                Think Like a Mountain

                Boards ridden, some owned: Sherpas, Spruce 120 "STS", Blunts, DS110 custom prototypes, Rockered Condors, Revolts, DLPs, Summit Custom 110s, Summit Marauders, Head 94s, Raptor prototypes, Osprey prototypes.

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                • #9
                  I know this thread is a bit old, so I apologize for bringing it back if it should be "dead". I wanted to chime in quickly with my thoughts on backcountry camping. I am going to do a few skiboard trips focused on summiting and skiing down. Some will involve simple car camping, others will be full on "skiboardpacking"

                  I don't have as much experience in snowsports as most of you (even close to as much), but I have a lot of backcountry sports experience, namely mountain biking, and have done several ultra-light overnight trips on foot (still planning a bikepacking trip, hopefully for spring).

                  One thing I have found is that most people tend to go overboard with gear - big tents, big packs, big stoves, big cook kits, heavy food, heavy shoes, too many clothes, and even packing too much water. Two things lead to this; one is that it becomes a vicious cycle, with one piece of heavy gear necessitating the next, and so on. The other thing that leads to this is lack of planning. For example, if you know you will hit two towns on a 4 night backapcking trip, you don't need 4-5 days worth of food. You would be better finding out where the food mart in that town is, and planning a quick stop. Same with water. If you are in an area with a lot of streams (or snow), make sure your purification system works, but don't pack tons of water (although extra for security is still a must).

                  My base weight for winter is around 10 lbs, including pack and a heavy old northface brown label down bag. When I lighten that, I should lose around 2 lbs (3 if I go really light and pricey). I use a mountain hardwear ethereal bivy that I picked up for about 100 bucks on sierra trading post. A solid winter shelter, but it is 30 ounces and a tarptent would probably work just as well, be roomier and lighter. I use a 50L Lowe Alpine Zepton pack (picked up from STP as well, for about 100), which is plenty big (and can have skiboards strapped to the load tightening straps). Not super ultra light, but in the mid 2lb range and very comfortable.

                  I sleep with a car sun reflector and a 3/4 length foam thermarest ridge rest (soon to be a klymit 3/4 length x-lite) pad. My stove is a homemade redbull/v8 can top burner alcohol stove, with a fully adjustable simmer ring and pot stand. I use a titanium 12 oz mug and a small styrofoam hotel room coffee cup and just a plastic spoon. I have a 24oz mug that I use sometimes too, with a homemade cozy. Insulated mugs drastically increase fuel efficiency. Just pour hot water in and let the food stand. I like to bring food that doesn't even need to be cooked, just hydrated (and warmed for comfort/keep from freezing) like couscous, instant grits, instant oatmeal, instant mashed potatoes, carbohydrate powder, powdered milk, and dry, high nutritional value per weight foods like granola, clif bars, dried fruit, etc.

                  I have a small gerber camp knife and a 1lb Ontario machete that I bring. My headlamp is a black diamond storm, and I have a few purifier set ups - the mcnett aquamira pro filter (cheap and super light), a steripen, and of course basic iodine tabs. I use a wipe cloth as a prefilter.

                  For clothes, if you aren't wearing (almost) everything when you sleep, with the exceptions being rain gear, wet clothes, and your boots, you're carrying too much. I bring a baselayer, wind breaker, midlayer (like a fleece shirt), puffy down coat, and my outer layer. I wear them all to bed. You can add a good 20, sometimes 30 degrees to your bag by doing that. And eliminate discomfort caused by cold pockets and/or drafts.

                  A few notes: A lot of times, if I am only going for the night, going without much planning, going to test new gear, or (the big one) taking the girlfriend, I will bring some extra comforts, namely extra clothes, more lights, more luxurious food, bigger mug and my MSR pocket rocket stove, so I can just crank it up and not have to screw with putting alcohol in my other stove and priming it and such.

                  Sleeping systems: hammocks, if set up right (with underquilt/overquilt, tarp, etc) can be very light and warm and very comfortable for some. Ground set ups will be the lightest, but you have to get pretty minimalist to notice a big difference. On the ground, your chief concern isn't being warm from the air, but from the ground. A typical mummy bag if often considered a waste (exception is with a pad like the klymit that allows pockets of down loft to form), because the insulation under you is flattened and therefore useless. The ground is solid and conducts heat much better than the air. It will steal your heat and you will feel cold, even in a super warm bag. Sleeping on one sleeping pad in the winter usually doesn't work. adding a heat reflecting layer helps A LOT.

                  Sorry for the essay; this is one of my favorite areas of interest, and I would love to see some skiboarders getting out on backcountry touring trips. I'm really excited to give it a try. Just make sure you camp close to the car the first time (less than 3 miles, no over gnarly terrain), in case you realize you don't have exactly what you want/need. Also, if taking a significant other for the first time, do the same but to a greater extent. Just a few weeks ago my girlfriend decided she was "too cold" (don't know how, in a -5 degree bag with 3 coats on...) on an overnight trip in Pisgah. We night hiked it out, and she is willing to try again, instead of it being ruined for her.

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                  • #10
                    and btw mahatma, awesome choice on the quilt!

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                    • #11
                      Necrooooo post.

                      Mahatma! Did you ever go on your ski camping trip?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sure. I've done winter camping. So much is based on weather and terrain. For example, while a tarp can be excellent it can be miserable is variable direction winds. I would never go out in winter without a white gas stove. You require way too much alcohol to melt snow to realize a weight savings over white gas (that is if you are melting snow). Also, when you are and have been cold for hours, you need hot liquids NOW. Not in 7 minutes. Sleep system I am a down quilt with full length pad type and a space blanket on top of the pad (although I do not wrap myself in it because I end up wet do to condensation). I agree with you about clothing but remember if something gets wet do to weather or sweat it has become a deficit. You must be able to change into dry clothes. You cannot carry too many socks (ha ha). My 2 cents.
                        "It's no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" Jiddu Krisnamurti

                        Spruce Sherpa - RVL8 KTP - RVL8 Blunt XL

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                        • #13
                          Did you ever combine winter camping and skiing like you mentioned in your first post?

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                          • #14
                            Camping in the backcountry

                            Yes, a few years ago I did a few shoe out/camp/glide back in the morning trips. I say it like that because the trips I went on were not touring trips. We could have set out first thing in the morning, shoe/skinned to the exact same location and came back the same day. Camping was an enjoyable choice not a requirement. Some members might recall that last year I had no winter season due to an ugly bout with Rheumatoid Arthritis (I was diagnosed with the condition a few years ago). My point there is I sort of lost traction with the activity. However, I did end up changing tents to a free-standing model (Hilliberg Soulo). While you still have to "dead man" it out in case it gets windy you do not have to worry about letting them setup before kicking around inside the tent. In these conditions, a free-standing tent is worth every extra ounce. I want to get back into it. However, so far this season the combination of outrageous powder days and beyond fierce winds have kept even the freaks from overnighting. I'm sorry, I know there is not a lot of meat in this post. While a total winter camping/touring newb, I will try to answer any questions I can.
                            "It's no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" Jiddu Krisnamurti

                            Spruce Sherpa - RVL8 KTP - RVL8 Blunt XL

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                            • #15
                              Thanks for the answer!

                              Ski camping seems like it could be really fun if the conditions are in your favor. It would be amazing to finally combine skiing and backpacking (two of my most favorite hobbies).

                              What was your ski and binding setup for your ski camp trips? If you posted it in another thread you can just send me there instead of retyping it.

                              I've also been considering getting into cross-country skiing.

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