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BTK Beta Testing - Suggestions , Problems , Tips and Tricks .

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  • BTK Beta Testing - Suggestions , Problems , Tips and Tricks .

    ** NOTE **
    THE BTK IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE


    For other back country skiboard touring options please refer to:

    http://www.skiboardsonline.com/forum...t=back+country

    http://www.skiboardsonline.com/forum...t+boot+touring
    http://www.skiboardsonline.com/forum...ad.php?t=13045


    This thread is being kept as an archive only:




    The BTK ( Backcountry Touring Kit ) is a work in progress and this thread is for any users to post up suggestions , problems , and tips and tricks about using their backcountry touring kits.
    The first minor issue that I have noticed , is that the black rubber bumpers that are supplied with the telemark toggle arm bushing , have a propensity to fall off during downhill riding if the telemark cables are not attached . You could remove the cables for the descent but it is better to leave the cables on and attach the cables to the back of the boot with a leash like in this picture to avoid loss of the rubber bumpers. . With cables attached both for going uphill and for descending the rubber bumpers never fall off and the cables are firmly attached and do not detach as well . . I would recommend replacing the toggle arms and supplied sole plate with the regular heel bale and sole plate for regular ski area use.
    Here is a picture of the recommended procedure for descent .


    ps . if for some reason you do wish to leave the toggle arm on and use it at the resort .. for example if you are doing some combined ski area and side country touring , you could either ride at the ski area with the telemark cable attached to the back of the boot as above . or remove the rubber bumpers which are easy to just slide off and the telemark cables and store both parts in your pack along with climbing skins and collapsible poles and just attach the touring stuff if you go out of bounds.. ps the purpose of the rubber bumpers is to help retain the telemark cables as well as prevent damage to the skiboard by the protruding metal telemark bushing arms during pivoting of the toggle arms during touring.
    However, I do not recommend using the telemark toggle arms if you are going to do park as the protruding wings may catch on park features and pose a danger.
    Boards :
    Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
    Boots
    K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
    Bindings:
    Zero Pro Non release Binding
    Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
    Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
    Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
    Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

  • #2
    This is more of a FYI for prototype kit testers.

    When using the BTK, a small divot will be created in the sole of your boots. It will reach the size shown and be about 1/16" deep. Not to worry, since it stops growing once it takes the shape of the binding block the boot pivots relative to.
    sigpic


    Osprey, Sherpa, Custom Coda 120WT, Custom DS110, Condor (Green), Spliff

    Custom Twist Out duck foot bindings, Bombers (custom duck foot base plate and 3 pads), releasable S810ti on custom duck foot riser

    Nordica N3 NXT ski boots (best so far)


    Wife: 104 SII & 100 Blunt XL with S810ti bindings on custom "adjustable duck foot" risers

    Loaners: 125LE, 105 EMP, 101 KTP, 100 Blunt XL, 98 Slapdash, 88 Blunts

    Comment


    • #3
      This is a tip to make adjusting your touring cable hook length quicker on the mountain.

      After adjusting the hook length as per the User Guide, place a small piece of white tape approximately 1/16" away from the end of the spring cartridge. Then if the hook screws in or out for some reason (removed and carried in your back pack as an example) it is quick to turn the cartidge until it is the 1/16" away from the cartridge.
      sigpic


      Osprey, Sherpa, Custom Coda 120WT, Custom DS110, Condor (Green), Spliff

      Custom Twist Out duck foot bindings, Bombers (custom duck foot base plate and 3 pads), releasable S810ti on custom duck foot riser

      Nordica N3 NXT ski boots (best so far)


      Wife: 104 SII & 100 Blunt XL with S810ti bindings on custom "adjustable duck foot" risers

      Loaners: 125LE, 105 EMP, 101 KTP, 100 Blunt XL, 98 Slapdash, 88 Blunts

      Comment


      • #4
        Tightening nuts, Boot Divot, Rubber bumpers

        After one full season of using the BTK, here is the little divot that Slow has pointed out on my Full Tilt sole ... I consider this a automatic custom modification of my boot so that the BTK will work better !


        I have easily removed the little rubber stoppers from the telemark wings and stored those in my pack if I am riding with the toggle arm pivot convertible toe/heel piece without the telemark cables.
        I will snap these back on before putting on the telemark cables. Removing the rubber stoppers is not necessary if I am descending with the telemark cables attached and tied to my boot with a leash.


        It is very important before each use of the BTK that nuts be checked and tightened if necessary as they may become loose with heavy use. .. there are two important sets of nuts that need to be tightened ..
        the outside adjustment nut on the bottom pivot bar is adjusted by putting the end of the bolt on one side in a 7/16 open end box wrench and the adjustment nut on the opposite end of the toggle bolt in another 7/16 open end box wrench and tightening .


        The second set of nuts is the adjustment nut on the top toggle bolt , that one is easily tightened by putting the outer adjustment nut in one 7/16 open end box wrench and the inner nut on the other side of the toggle arm in another 7/16 open end box wrench and tightening.
        Boards :
        Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
        Boots
        K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
        Bindings:
        Zero Pro Non release Binding
        Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
        Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
        Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
        Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

        Comment


        • #5
          Unbuckling Boots

          To increase tourability with the BTK using standard ski boots , I recommend unbuckling or loosening your buckles , and leaving the power strap loose. . You may find that you can loosen all three buckles if your foot is not too loose in your boots , or you may leave the bottom one or two buckles tighter and loosen the top one or two buckles , basicallly the idea is to get more of a soft boot feel in your boot set up for touring by having your foot move a bit in your liner without having too much slop .
          Here is how I climb in my Full tilts with all three buckles completely loose ..



          I asked Slow what he did during his flatland test tour and this is what he said ( we are both using Full tilt boots ) :

          "I tried with all three buckles undone but I found my feet/toes were starting to hurt from being pushed up against the front of the boot. So I tightened the lowest and second buckle and kept the top un-buckled. I was then fine and had ample flex in the boot since I have changed to a #4 tongue and kept the strap very loose.

          Maybe when climbing my toes would not be jamming forward as hard since I would be pushing off the heel more. On the flat, it was more of a kick forward into the snow breaking trail."
          Boards :
          Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
          Boots
          K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
          Bindings:
          Zero Pro Non release Binding
          Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
          Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
          Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
          Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

          Comment


          • #6
            Tighten Front lever screws ! Emergency binding repair ! BTK testing in pow.

            It is absolutely essential that this retaining screw on the front lever is checked and tightened before each use . The front lever is under a lot of stress as a climbing assist and the retaining screw needs to be very tight . You may even consider using some locktite on this screw . I have lost Zero and line ff pro levers as well as my touring modified BTK recpetor lever by not being careful about this . I am a slow learner.

            When i got to our first rest stop today with only flat land touring and no use of the lever for climbing , i realized that the lever , screw and retention plate were gone ! I immediately checked the other screw with an allen wrench and it was firmly tight and not loose . I put some duct tape around that screw just as added insurance if it came loose .. .but after very steep technical climbing today the other lever stayed firmly attached . I checked the screw at home and it was tight .


            Ok so I am missing a heel elevator and still have a functional one ... no problem and climbing was fine . The issue is what to do on the descent . We have suggested that all BTK users carry a spare Recptor front lever, you will have these because the BTK is supplied with new front levers. I carried one of these today in my emergency kit . When it was time to descend I just snapped on one of these levers, when used for descent only , it is not necessary to have a screw and retntion plate.

            I was out in the backountry for a total of 9 hours today , giving my 17 year old son who has boundless energy, his first grand tour of the Castle peak area . Unfortunatly Dad was really slow today climbing and the trip took much longer then I thought , although we hit all the highlights . Got back to the car in the dark !

            Here is my son Jordan on the way up .. he is on Karhu Meta 120cm approach skis ,carrying his Burton Fish . He is trying to get Dad to speed up .



            Here I am on my Condors and touring binding ... beautiful day


            Condors were great as usual for going up as well as magic for descending the nice pow ! No problem keeping up with my son on his snowboard.

            Here is Jordan down on the low angle pow after we have dropped the steeper section....
            great day ,even if I am totally bushed. I was getting some leg cramps and let my son drive most of the way home !

            ps I help my son and carry one of his approach skis on my pack and he carries the other . I am rethinking my generosity as our different level of fitness is becoming obvious . He needs more stuff to weigh him down lol !
            Boards :
            Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
            Boots
            K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
            Bindings:
            Zero Pro Non release Binding
            Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
            Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
            Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
            Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

            Comment


            • #7
              Locktite recommended

              After further discussion with the BTK design crew , we are now recommending that BTK users apply blue locktite to the lever retaining screw , you could also consider red locktite but then you could not remove the front lever and replace it with stock levers although this may not be that important as the replacement BTK levers are perfectly functional at the resort.

              You may also consider adding blue or even red locktite to the outer double nut screws on the telemark toggle assembly . Besides periodically tightening those screws , this would alllow further assurance that the screws do not come loose .
              Boards :
              Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
              Boots
              K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
              Bindings:
              Zero Pro Non release Binding
              Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
              Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
              Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
              Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

              Comment


              • #8
                Would there be any added benefit to getting the 140mm skins and trimming off 3mm (1.5 on each side) to fit the 137mm at the waist condors? I don't know how much extra stick the 7mm of skin underfoot would help. and if it would be worth the extra $15. thanks

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by bec2745 View Post
                  Would there be any added benefit to getting the 140mm skins and trimming off 3mm (1.5 on each side) to fit the 137mm at the waist condors? I don't know how much extra stick the 7mm of skin underfoot would help. and if it would be worth the extra $15. thanks
                  Hi Brian , no there is no benefit getting the wider skins. I find that having the extra few mm of board exposed on either side of the skin is important at the waist to get good bite in side hilling in firm snow. . I do not like wall to wall skins that interfere with driving the edge into firm snow on traversing . there is plenty of traction with the 130mm skins and no need to go any wider ... also it helps to not have to do any extra work trimming the skin other then just trimming to fit the tip loops .. follow the instructions on the web site about how to trim the top of the skins to fit the skiboard. .... be sure to let me know if you have any other questions ...

                  jack
                  Boards :
                  Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
                  Boots
                  K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
                  Bindings:
                  Zero Pro Non release Binding
                  Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                  Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
                  Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
                  Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    thank you breaking out the visa now :-)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      quick transitions, climbing tips

                      Out yesterday morning climbing and riding on the BTK /Condor set up in perfect weather and fabulous fast light pow .. found a great slope and did some ups an downs in unbroken pow .. here are my tips for quick transitions using the BTK

                      After a climb and coming to the top of the mountain ,, stomp a platform in the pow with your skiboards, drop your pack , then snap out of the telemark cable and remove leash on one skiboard only , spin the skiboard around and step back down on the skiboard without setting your boot in the snow and getting snow on the bottom of your boot, snap into the skiboard binding tie up you telemark cable to the back of your boot . repeat on the other side. during this procedure leave your skins on as this will stablize the board . Once you are locked and loaded , stabilize your self with a ski pole lift one of your skiboards up and grap hold of the bungeed end of the skin and rip it off , make sure you do not drop the skin in the snow , fold and stow the skins in the pack , repeat on the other side , finally stow your collapsible poles and you are ready to shred in no time .

                      to prepare for climbing after shredding pow and reaching the bottom ,, drop pack and remove poles, stomp out a nice firm platform in the pow , snap out of one skiboarrd , step out of the skiboard , attach climbing skins to one skiboard , knock off snow from boot with ski pole , put in boot into the telemark toe housing and snap cables on , repeat on the other side and you are good to go in no time!

                      The BTK transitions are super quick this way .

                      Climbing tip in steep soft snow : Take small steps forward , stomp out a little platform then bring the other foot up .. the forward position of the BTK binding in climbing mode and the nice high heel elevator make climbing up steep slopes really easy , the key is not to take big steps up hill but rather little steps,stomping in the pow a bit to preserve traction ....it is absolutely how steep an angle you can climb uphill this way ... back to the top in no time on your own quad lift ... quadriceps that is ...
                      Boards :
                      Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
                      Boots
                      K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
                      Bindings:
                      Zero Pro Non release Binding
                      Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                      Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
                      Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
                      Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jjue View Post
                        ... here are my tips for quick transitions using the BTK
                        ...
                        Jack,
                        When do you get to rest?
                        sigpic


                        Osprey, Sherpa, Custom Coda 120WT, Custom DS110, Condor (Green), Spliff

                        Custom Twist Out duck foot bindings, Bombers (custom duck foot base plate and 3 pads), releasable S810ti on custom duck foot riser

                        Nordica N3 NXT ski boots (best so far)


                        Wife: 104 SII & 100 Blunt XL with S810ti bindings on custom "adjustable duck foot" risers

                        Loaners: 125LE, 105 EMP, 101 KTP, 100 Blunt XL, 98 Slapdash, 88 Blunts

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by slow View Post
                          Jack,
                          When do you get to rest?
                          oh yeah .. rest... hmm that comes when you get home , take a shower, have a big meal and crash in front of the tv with a beer in hand !
                          Boards :
                          Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
                          Boots
                          K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
                          Bindings:
                          Zero Pro Non release Binding
                          Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                          Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
                          Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
                          Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bec2745 View Post
                            thank you breaking out the visa now :-)
                            got some great feedback from bec2745 who has been out on the BTK . he will be posting soon ... but I wanted to address some of his issues in advance ....

                            he found that he would slip backward more and had less traction then his long ski buddies on steep climbs and had to take a shallower route with more switchbacks ...
                            it is true that when skins are applied to long skis compared to skins on short skiboards , the long skis tend to have more traction on very steep uphills ... here are some additional tricks that will help you follow your long ski buddie's tracks that i have found useful

                            when climbing with skiboards with skins . it is important if you find yourself slipping to take shorter strides then your long ski friends .. take a little step forward stomp your skiboard a bit in the snow and make sure you have a firm base and are not slipping and then move your other foot up and forward a small step and immediately stomp down in the snow .. you take a lot of faster little steps when your long ski buddies are taking slower longer strides. . also drive both your poles into the snow ahead of you and use your arms to help you with traction ..
                            also if you find yourself slipping , crampons are invaluable .. i will put them on on firm uptracks following skiers if I start slipping .... The BTK kit provides all the attachments for crampons . you just need to purchase them from b and d ski gear as we have suggested , requesting 4cm apart holes drilled to accept the provided screw studs and wingnuts. With crampons you should be able to climb any slopes that your buddies are doing .

                            bec2745 also found some issues with the front lever/heel elevator staying up on climbing ..
                            it is true that our inverted front lever does double duty both as a heel elevator on the climb and as the front lever to lock in on the descent ... and is not as secure as a dedicated heel elevator used on alpine touring or telemark bindings .. but I think it is secure enough .. the key is steady climbing and not slipping or jerking your skiboard too much on the uphills , if you slip backwards suddenly or suddenly rock your skiboard on climbing sometimes the lever will fall out of position and need to be put up again

                            hope that bec2745 will be able to post soon .. in fact he is off in the backcountry for another adventure right now ! right on !
                            Boards :
                            Blunt Xl, DLP, Spliff, Condor, Rockered Condor , Slingshot, Sherpa, Icelantic Shaman
                            Boots
                            K2 BFC 100 Grip walk sole , Dynafit CR Radical AT boot, Ride Insano Snowboard boots
                            Bindings:
                            Zero Pro Non release Binding
                            Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                            Spruce Riser with Attack 14 GW /AT binding
                            Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)
                            Rocker and Sbol Soft Boot Bindings.

                            Comment

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