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  • #16
    Originally posted by destin View Post
    It looks like the current Hagan 130 Off Limit skis are essentially the same ski as the Hagan 133 skis you refer to eh. I hope they still have the same rear set back mount design, I would assume so.
    The current Hagan is exactly the same ( this is the third graphic the skis have had ) , except it has a nice little notch on the rear of the ski that allows a skin hook to attach nicely without falling off the rounded edge ,, if you check the Review section here on SBOL and like at Bill's Hagan review you will see the current version he bought this year ..
    Boards :
    Spliffs
    Condors
    Crossbows
    Sherpa

    Boot:
    K2 BFC 100

    Bindings:
    Zero Pro Non release Binding
    Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
    Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
    Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

    Comment


    • #17
      Epilogue

      For others reading this thread ... the Hagan is a revolutionary design in that it allows a short ski with a minimum of float to perform well in all kinds of backcountry conditions. IMHO what the Sherpa and the Condor does is one up the Hagan by providing even more float in a less assymetric design that has faster float and speed through pow and allows a more center mount rider with less tail drag and better climbing ability because of the more centered position , , while still allowing the tail of the board to drop some in deep snow ... the difference is really noticeable over the Hagan in float and speed through pow . . the Sherpa does this by its huge tip and somewhat smaller tail and the condor by having non release skiboard bindings like the Zeros and the Receptors that allow signficant setbacks . both of these boards have 160mm or 165mm tips compared to the Hagans 130mm tip and both are signficantly wider underfoot and have signficantly more surface area . . Both allow a more centered climbing position in deep pow which is also quite nice. and of course both have that wonderful poleless skiboard feel ...
      Boards :
      Spliffs
      Condors
      Crossbows
      Sherpa

      Boot:
      K2 BFC 100

      Bindings:
      Zero Pro Non release Binding
      Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
      Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
      Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

      Comment


      • #18
        Alternate AT bindings for Hagan Nanooks?

        thanks Jack.

        I had a chance to try out my hagan nanooks in some very light backcountry conditions. I was actually surprised at how well they worked. Their set back binding helps a lot, as you've mentioned, in pow. So while I'll use my off limits, and hopefully someday sherpas, in heavy backcountry the nanooks still have a place.

        Anyway I did find their custom binding to be almost useless in touring mode. I have to have it very tight to keep it from coming off the boot(so can't lift heel much at all), and also the heel lifter doesn't like to stay down, catches on the boot.

        Do you happen to know of any other AT binding that will fit these in approximately the same set back position?

        thanks!

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by destin View Post


          Anyway I did find their custom binding to be almost useless in touring mode. I have to have it very tight to keep it from coming off the boot(so can't lift heel much at all), and also the heel lifter doesn't like to stay down, catches on the boot.

          Do you happen to know of any other AT binding that will fit these in approximately the same set back position?

          thanks!
          Destin , interesting to see you are having issues with the Nanook binding .. .
          my retrofit tour binding ( link previously in this thread) is based loosely on the Nanook binding but I think you will find it sturdier and more useful .. if you bought skins and a non release binding
          you could retrofit your Summit nomad to use as as a backcountry skiboard...
          in fact the skins on your nanook would probably fit on your nomad .. the nomad would have more float then your nanook anyways .. as for the nanook itself , i think it is a proprietary drilled 8 hole skiboard binding and i think you are out of luck to fit any other AT , bindings into the drilled holes..
          Boards :
          Spliffs
          Condors
          Crossbows
          Sherpa

          Boot:
          K2 BFC 100

          Bindings:
          Zero Pro Non release Binding
          Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
          Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
          Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by jjue View Post
            Destin , interesting to see you are having issues with the Nanook binding .. .
            my retrofit tour binding ( link previously in this thread) is based loosely on the Nanook binding but I think you will find it sturdier and more useful .. if you bought skins and a non release binding
            you could retrofit your Summit nomad to use as as a backcountry skiboard...
            in fact the skins on your nanook would probably fit on your nomad .. the nomad would have more float then your nanook anyways .. as for the nanook itself , i think it is a proprietary drilled 8 hole skiboard binding and i think you are out of luck to fit any other AT , bindings into the drilled holes..
            thanks Jack maybe I will do that, and get a nice Revel instead for groomers, though I hate to have an unusable ski.

            I noticed this guy had a problem with the heel lifter as well

            http://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/blog...appraoch_skis/

            though that's not my main problem, and that has a work around at least.

            I could be doing something wrong, but basically at home I put the bindings in tour mode only as tight as they needed to be to withstand a good ski shake.

            Then went out on them and every time they came off tightened them up a half a turn until they didn't. I don't think I had my boot as loose as I could have for walking, maybe I'll try putting the top buckles into the walk mode position and loosening the cuff strap.

            I wonder if I need a canting adjustment too perhaps it's a twisting motion that's popping them out.

            Bindings worked surprisingly well in downhill mode, and have made me a bit less wary of using a non release binding - at least on short skiboards.

            I would like to try your binding setup at some point, they seem neat. Anyway fun stuff thanks again for your help.

            Comment


            • #21
              Destin , let me explain what I think may be the issue with the Nanook binding pre releasing in tour mode .

              the nanook binding and my binding modification of standard skiboard binding is basically a modification of the telemark binding with one signficant problem .. unlike a telemark front binding which has a rigid metal bar holding down the toe of the boot . in a skiboard touring binding the front lever of the binding holds the toe of the boot down .. if the touring cylinder cables are not really , really tight , it is easy when you lift your heel up and do a twisting motion to slide the front ridge of your boot against the closed front lever and cause the lever to flip up and release your boot . this shouldn't be an issue if you are walking straight ahead but if you are turning and twist your boot you can twist right out , the solution is to make the cable as tight as you can , also when you are turning or side hilling to be careful of putting your boot flat to the board and edging the skiboard rather than lifting your heel and twisting . Unfortunately in the design of the Nanook binding , as you point out , the touring cylinder cable is fixed to a point separate from the free pivoting front bail of the binding . this really restricts motion of the heel if you tighten the cable way down . In my design the touring cables are attached directly to the front bail which allows me to tighten the cables way down without distrubing the free pivot motion of the whole system. you are right that loosening the cuff of your boot , and your boot , may help movement when tightening down the cylinder cables but is the long way around .
              Boards :
              Spliffs
              Condors
              Crossbows
              Sherpa

              Boot:
              K2 BFC 100

              Bindings:
              Zero Pro Non release Binding
              Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
              Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
              Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

              Comment


              • #22
                binding alignment on hagan off limits

                Hi Jack

                I found a shop that says they can mount the fritschi freeride plus bindings on my hagans, it's a local established shop by a resort here but not as big as say the shops in mammoth (6 hours away).

                I'd like to be able to assure they mount the bindings correctly, I don't think they do a lot of AT and I doubt they've seen these skis before. Basically they just need to align the boot center mark, with the set back boot mark on the ski (the white arrow in photo)?

                thank you
                Attached Files
                Last edited by destin; 02-19-2010, 06:21 PM. Reason: fix typo

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by destin View Post
                  Hi Jack

                  I found a shop that says they can mount the fritschi freeride plus bindings on my hagans, it's a local established shop by a resort here but not as big as say the shops in mammoth (6 hours away).

                  I'd like to be able to assure they mount the bindings correctly, I don't think they do a lot of AT and I doubt they've seen these skis before. Basically they just need to align the boot center mark, with the set back boot mark on the ski (the white arrow in photo)?

                  thank you
                  yes , you are correct boot center at the mark on the hagan .. pretty simple
                  Boards :
                  Spliffs
                  Condors
                  Crossbows
                  Sherpa

                  Boot:
                  K2 BFC 100

                  Bindings:
                  Zero Pro Non release Binding
                  Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                  Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
                  Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Is there any reason Dynafit bindings won't work with the Sherpa or the Condor? Is there a problem with mounting them? I like the simplicity and lightweight of the Dynafit system. The Fritschi's seem heavier and not as interesting to me.
                    My kids just started snowboarding. I'm looking for short fat boards that I can occaisionally take to the resort with them but that will also work in crappy backcountry snow in southwestern tightly tree'd forests. I also want the capacity to run in deeper powder. I'm a backcountry tourer who can fake a tele turn when necessary. I did lots of downhill when I was younger until I got tired of paying to stand in lines. I'm short and fat - 5'6" - 200#'s.
                    I'm starting from scratch so am open to suggestions.
                    Thanks

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by nm13 View Post
                      Is there any reason Dynafit bindings won't work with the Sherpa or the Condor? Is there a problem with mounting them? I like the simplicity and lightweight of the Dynafit system. The Fritschi's seem heavier and not as interesting to me.
                      My kids just started snowboarding. I'm looking for short fat boards that I can occaisionally take to the resort with them but that will also work in crappy backcountry snow in southwestern tightly tree'd forests. I also want the capacity to run in deeper powder. I'm a backcountry tourer who can fake a tele turn when necessary. I did lots of downhill when I was younger until I got tired of paying to stand in lines. I'm short and fat - 5'6" - 200#'s.
                      I'm starting from scratch so am open to suggestions.
                      Thanks

                      HI Nm13 and welcome to the SBOL forum .. nice to hear from another backcountry guy ! I have used the dynafit binding extensively , it is a great binding and very light weight ...
                      the problem with both the sherpa an the Condor is that neither board is designed to be drilled for ski bindings , you cannot just drill them with the dynafit binding . the screws will not hold with use and will pull out .. you would need to design a special riser to which you would mount the dynafit binding that would fit on either board .. Jeff at Spruce was not really interested in getting into designing custom dynafit installations . A dynafit installiation is really unique for each different size boot and the distance between the toe plate and the heel piece needs to be very precise and is best done directly drilled by a ski shop into a board that accepts drilled binding .. the Fritschi allows itself to a more uniform binding insert pattern that can be supported on custom risers. the other way you can do it . is to have a ski shop put t nuts for each of the screws of the dynafit binding from the bottom but that can get pretty expensive.
                      hope that helps with your question ..
                      Boards :
                      Spliffs
                      Condors
                      Crossbows
                      Sherpa

                      Boot:
                      K2 BFC 100

                      Bindings:
                      Zero Pro Non release Binding
                      Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                      Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
                      Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        OK. So I either need to think about changing which binding/boot system I'm interested in or look at something like the Scout. I've been inspired by all your posts on the Condors and Sherpas so I'll keep on that track for the time being.

                        As a wierd sidenote - I just acquired a set of old Karhu Catamount 160's that I thought I might try with an AT binding/boot. Not sure if they (or the new counterpart the Guide) will have enough float, glide, or traction but if I don't like them my wife will steal them from me.

                        Thanks for your quick reply.
                        Todd

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by nm13 View Post
                          OK. So I either need to think about changing which binding/boot system I'm interested in or look at something like the Scout. I've been inspired by all your posts on the Condors and Sherpas so I'll keep on that track for the time being.
                          I may be wrong but might not hurt to let the folks at Spruce know your interest in using their boards for touring

                          http://www.spruceski.com/contact.html

                          to help them gauge interest. I hope in the future they offer some production options.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by nm13 View Post
                            I'm interested in or look at something like the Scout. I've been inspired by all your posts on the Condors and Sherpas so I'll keep on that track for the time being.

                            As a wierd sidenote - I just acquired a set of old Karhu Catamount 160's that I thought I might try with an AT binding/boot. Not sure if they (or the new counterpart the Guide) will have enough float, glide, or traction but if I don't like them my wife will steal them from me.

                            Thanks for your quick reply.
                            Todd

                            Todd .. I guess I have tried pretty much everything .. I have a pair of the Icelantic Scouts mounted them with telemark bindings and then with Fritschi .. loaned them out to a buddy on long skis .. he liked them a lot and bought his own pair and is on them now with Fritschi 's ( he used to be a telemarker) I did not like them nearly as much as I like the Sherpa and the Condor ..

                            I also used Karhu catamounts for a number of seasons , mine were 190cm , they floated me ( i weigh 190 lbs ) ok and the pattern base was really nice .. but they were much much more difficult to turn in "bad" backcountry crud then the short skis and skiboards that I left them for .. the 160cm might be a little behind on the float dept unless you are a very light guy ... one of my backcountry buddies has a pair of the Karhu guides .. the pattern is much less aggressive then the catamounts and he has to use skins on anything more then low angle but it is wider then the catamount which is nice ... we were out together recently . he on his guides and i on my condor and i was having a much , much easier time of it in grabby backcountry pow .

                            to me being on skiboards is SOOOOO much more fun then the Catamount days .. I can't really express how much more fun it is ... basically any kind of snow becomes hero snow .. which is magic , i can descend anything without poles which is a wonderful free feeling , really the best sliding things have been on in the backcountry .. and super fun climbing with the shorties as well !
                            Boards :
                            Spliffs
                            Condors
                            Crossbows
                            Sherpa

                            Boot:
                            K2 BFC 100

                            Bindings:
                            Zero Pro Non release Binding
                            Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                            Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
                            Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Your experience and obvious passion is very compelling. I'm convinced.

                              So another question - I've looked for any comparison you've made or preferences you've expressed between the Condor and the Sherpa. Seems like you think highly of both and I assume that with completely different binding systems you use them for different things. Thoughts?

                              I guess I'm most drawn toward the Sherpa/AT system (sold out??) because I want to use them a little at resorts. But perhaps the touring binding with the Condor would seem more familiar given my recent history as a backcountry tourer. Or would an AT system on the Condor be worth trying too? If it matters, I'm not likely to be aggressive or fast - I just love to get out and away to enjoy the wild.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by nm13 View Post
                                Your experience and obvious passion is very compelling. I'm convinced.

                                So another question - I've looked for any comparison you've made or preferences you've expressed between the Condor and the Sherpa. Seems like you think highly of both and I assume that with completely different binding systems you use them for different things. Thoughts?

                                .
                                Great question .. I think overall the Sherpa is the more competent board in all conditions . If you are going to use an Alpine touring binding , absolutely would go for the Sherpa mounted center mount . the assymetric design makes the Sherpa work better for me in backcountry crusty snow center mount then the Condor center mount . The 130 size of the Sherpa mates well with an alpine touring release binding . It is absolutely fantastic in both backcountry and resort.. The thing that draws me to the Condor is that it almost has Sherpa like competence in a shorter more manuverable format .. I am not interested at all in riding the Condor with a Fritschi .. the thing that draws me to the Condor is that I can match it with a very light weight non release binding , and with the touring cable set up we have worked out here on the SBOL forum , I can tour with a snowshoe like board with ultra lightweight binding that still has maximum competence in backcountry snow as well as being a pure pleasure at the resort .. I like a 4cm set back on the Condor in the backcountry and you can only really acheive that with a skiboard non release binding such as the Receptor or the Zero .. creating set backs on a 110 board for AT bindings with custom risers is a big challenge , just run out of real estate on such a short board .. Jeff Singer worked out a powder plate option that could be bolted on small skiboards and allow set backs on a clever inverted riser for the Fritschi but the whole set up was very heavy which destroys the appeal of skiboards for me .. The two plate low riser adapter plate set up he developed for the Sherpa , on the other hand , is fabulous and makes for a very , very light weight set up and certainly if you want a release AT set up , that is the way I would reccommend .

                                The Sherpa is an assymetric board and is easier to pilot center mount in difficult backcountry snow whereas the Condor is a symmetric board , and I feel that I do better with a set back in the same difficult backcountry snow . which really drives how I set up each board.

                                Right now , I am a Condor fanatic because I can do everything I want both going up and down on a super lightweight set up . that is a very satisfying with a very nice and unique skiboard solution for backcountry touring both in the board and the binding .
                                Boards :
                                Spliffs
                                Condors
                                Crossbows
                                Sherpa

                                Boot:
                                K2 BFC 100

                                Bindings:
                                Zero Pro Non release Binding
                                Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                                Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
                                Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

                                Comment

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