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  • Touring/Backcountry Questions

    Edited 11/16/2010 . Another thread that provides extensive backcountry skiboarding information including describing and illustrating the use of the Backcountry Touring Kit (BTK) as well as information concerning climbing skins, climbing techniques, avalanche information , and backcountry safety information is linked below .
    http://www.skiboardsonline.com/vbull...ad.php?t=10404



    Originally posted by destin View Post



    Oh very cool, I just noticed you're the one who posted this review as well of the Summit Marauders

    http://www.skiboardreview.com/murauder.html

    I'm thinking of going with those with Fritschi bindings to start, because at least initially, I want to be able to use an existing skin track with other skiers, as you mention in the review. The Fritschi's seem heavy but great usability wise, for now I'm fine with that tradeoff and I've found it's kind of hard to go too wrong with black diamond products.

    What you say in the review about the Sherpa sounds ideal, for times where using an existing track isn't much of a concern.

    Anyway don't want to hijack my own thread too much, I might start another thread with a few Touring / Backcountry questions I haven't been able to answer yet.

    fun stuff thanks again.

    I originally thought that a wide 160mm tip would interfere with me following in skin tracks .. but what has happened in the backcountry ski world is that there has been an ever escalating increase in the size of ski tips and I have found that 160mm tips are fine ..
    Sherpa and Condor have no problem following skin tracks ..
    Boards :
    Spliffs
    DLPs
    Condors
    Slingshots
    Sherpa

    Boot:
    K2 BFC 100

    Bindings:
    Zero Pro Non release Binding
    Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
    Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
    Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

  • #2
    Fritschi bindings

    Fritschi bindings are great , they are fairly light weight work very well and are easy to use .. release reliably and tour well ..
    Summit boards allow you to directly drill the Fritschi bindings into the board . on the Spruce Sherpa / Spruce 120 Jeff Singer at Spruce is willing to do a custom Fritschi two plate metal mounting plate that will allow use of the Fritschi bindings. If you are going to get into backcountry and use the Fritschi bindings in the Sierras . I recommend Skiboards with maximum surface area .. my recommendations for backcountry boards are Summit Marauder with Fritschi bindings, Spruce Sherpa with Fritschi bindings ( requires custom two plate mounting plate supplied by Jeff Singer ) , or Revel8 Condor ( with my touring modified skiboard binding or carried with snowshoe and used with non release skiboard binding ) . Another great possiblity is the Revel8 KTP 101 , carried with snowshoes or used with a touring modified skiboard binding .
    Boards :
    Spliffs
    DLPs
    Condors
    Slingshots
    Sherpa

    Boot:
    K2 BFC 100

    Bindings:
    Zero Pro Non release Binding
    Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
    Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
    Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

    Comment


    • #3
      Snowshoes

      If you are willing to use non release bindings , the whole skiboard /binding setup is very light and packable and using snowshoes offers some advantages for accessing the backcountry and is signficantly less expensive then the Fritschi route .

      Here is a comparison of Fritshi vs Snowshoe
      http://www.skiboardsonline.com/vbull...ead.php?t=8186

      Here is a comparison of non release touring modified skbioard binding vs Snowshoe
      http://www.skiboardsonline.com/vbull...ead.php?t=9427
      Boards :
      Spliffs
      DLPs
      Condors
      Slingshots
      Sherpa

      Boot:
      K2 BFC 100

      Bindings:
      Zero Pro Non release Binding
      Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
      Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
      Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

      Comment


      • #4
        Important differences in boards in Sierra Cement

        With my extensive experience on all these boards. , in Sierra backcountry cement . I have become a firm believer that a way to weight the rear of your board is very important to save energy . In a center mount skiboard in backcountry crust and sierra cement it is very energy consuming to have to sit on the rear tails of your boards constantly going down . Design in the board or binding is very important to allow you to do this . After climbing up my quads are very tired and the last thing I want to do is to sit back on the tails of my skiboards in difficult snow . The problem with the Summit Maruader and the Fritschi binding is that there is no way to get a signifcant set back on the Fritschi on the Maruader without running out of thickness for the rear screws of the Fritschi binding ,so you need to ride it centered. In certain kinds of snow I have to work to get my weight to the tail of the board . The Summit Maruader is a symmetrical board. The Sherpa on the other hand is assymetric with the tail smaller than the Tip . the nice thing about the Sherpa is that it allows a natural sinking of the tail in difficult snow even if the binding is mounted Centered which allows easier riding in difficult snow . The Sherpa also has an appreciable increase in float compared to the Maruader.

        On the Condor with non release Zero Pro or Revel8 Receptor bindings I am able to get a 4cm set back which really helps alot in getting the tail down in backcountry crust , floats the tips to the surface and prevents driving the tips down and going over the handlebars. The Condor amazingly has close to the same surface area as the Sherpa and more than the Marauder. The KTP although it has less surface area then the Condor , Sherpa and the Maruader , does have rear binding inserts and a super fat shape .. the 4cm rear inserts do wonders for making a 101 cm board work well in Sierra backcountry and make the board feel much longer then it is when the binding is back .It is also very packable because of its short length .


        Ps I have tried narrower 99cm boards like the Nanook in the backcountry and they are really way undergunned for Sierra backcountry conditions flotation wise , unless you are in spring snow , with firm conditions in the morning turning to corn in the afternoon .
        Boards :
        Spliffs
        DLPs
        Condors
        Slingshots
        Sherpa

        Boot:
        K2 BFC 100

        Bindings:
        Zero Pro Non release Binding
        Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
        Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
        Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

        Comment


        • #5
          Bottom line

          Three methods are available for backcountry acess with skiboards
          1/ Snowshoes , carry skiboards on your pack
          2/ Touring modified non release skiboard bindings and skins
          you can create these easily yourself or buy boards such as the Hagan Nanook with proprietary non release touring bindings

          The problem with the skiboards sold with propietary non release touring bindings is that they do not have enough flotation IMHO to work well in Sierra backcountry conditions.

          Here is my version of a non release touring binding to use with any skiboard with 4x4 inserts.
          http://www.skiboardsonline.com/vbull...ead.php?t=9333



          3/ use Fritschi touring bindings on skiboards

          ps . you can also use Telemark bindings on skiboards if you are a telemark skier but that is a whole other story !
          Boards :
          Spliffs
          DLPs
          Condors
          Slingshots
          Sherpa

          Boot:
          K2 BFC 100

          Bindings:
          Zero Pro Non release Binding
          Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
          Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
          Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

          Comment


          • #6
            Keep this thread alive !

            I would like to have this thread serve as a reference for any touring related or backcountry questions .. so if you have any , just post it up here and I will try to answer it here ...
            Boards :
            Spliffs
            DLPs
            Condors
            Slingshots
            Sherpa

            Boot:
            K2 BFC 100

            Bindings:
            Zero Pro Non release Binding
            Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
            Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
            Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

            Comment


            • #7
              Favorite Backcounty Rigs

              After much experimentation over several years with many different boards and binding combinations my favorite backcountry skiboard rigs are
              1/ Spruce Sherpa custom two plate Fritschi binding platform designed by Jeff Singer

              http://www.skiboardsonline.com/vbull...ead.php?t=7227

              2/ Revel8 Condor with tour modified Revel8 Receptor binding
              http://www.skiboardsonline.com/vbull...ead.php?t=9333

              Both of these rigs allow me to skin up any mountain with ease , allow the use of ski crampons , and let me descend any backcountry slope including crust and deep pow with ease . Both of these rigs provide me in a small package the same floation as a 180cm mid fat long ski but are much easier to climb up hill and much more fun and manuverable on the way down . I ride both these rigs without poles for the descent using collapsible poles to aid with ascent only . Magic !
              Boards :
              Spliffs
              DLPs
              Condors
              Slingshots
              Sherpa

              Boot:
              K2 BFC 100

              Bindings:
              Zero Pro Non release Binding
              Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
              Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
              Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

              Comment


              • #8
                thank you

                Wow , this is like a bible to what I've been getting into and wanting to know. Above and beyond helpful, thank you so much for posting all this!

                Haven't digested this all yet but at this time I think the Sherpa 130 setup modded to use Fritschi bindings has the most appeal to me.

                I do also snowshoe so at some point I might want the other setup you discuss, I can see how that has its advantages as you mention.

                thank you again!

                Comment


                • #9
                  touring / backcountry boots

                  hi, Any boots in particular you've found work exceptionally well for Skiboard touring?

                  I've been looking at AT boots used by ski mountaineers, and boots that split boarders are using, trying to see what they are liking. Something that can handle a bit of mountaineering would be ideal.

                  I like some of the boots Dynafit and Garmont have especially. I have picked up cheap some used Raichle split board boots to try, I'll see how they work out.

                  just thought I'd ask, thanks again

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by destin View Post
                    hi, Any boots in particular you've found work exceptionally well for Skiboard touring?

                    I've been looking at AT boots used by ski mountaineers, and boots that split boarders are using, trying to see what they are liking. Something that can handle a bit of mountaineering would be ideal.

                    I like some of the boots Dynafit and Garmont have especially. I have picked up cheap some used Raichle split board boots to try, I'll see how they work out.

                    just thought I'd ask, thanks again
                    My favorite boot for skiboard mountaineering are Alpine touring boots .. they have a rockered vibram sole , are very comfortable to hike in , and have all the power of a regular ski boot going down .. you can choose one of the less burly and lighterweight version for skiboards. They work in most non release skiboard bindings . The only one that they do not work with is the Bomber Elite 2 (two narrow of a toe aperture in the front bail) .. They work with Fritschi Alpine touring bindings BUT they will not work in standard downhill ski release bindings including the Spruce riser series. I use a Scarpa Laser Alpine touring boot ( no longer made but similar to the Scarpa Matrix ) ... Here is a pic of the boot ... with my Condor touring set up ..


                    Boards :
                    Spliffs
                    DLPs
                    Condors
                    Slingshots
                    Sherpa

                    Boot:
                    K2 BFC 100

                    Bindings:
                    Zero Pro Non release Binding
                    Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                    Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
                    Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jjue View Post
                      My favorite boot for skiboard mountaineering are Alpine touring boots .. they have a rockered vibram sole , are very comfortable to hike in , and have all the power of a regular ski boot going down .. you can choose one of the less burly and lighterweight version for skiboards. They work in most non release skiboard bindings . The only one that they do not work with is the Bomber Elite 2 (two narrow of a toe aperture in the front bail) .. They work with Fritschi Alpine touring bindings BUT they will not work in standard downhill ski release bindings including the Spruce riser series. I use a Scarpa Laser Alpine touring boot ( no longer made but similar to the Scarpa Matrix ) ... Here is a pic of the boot ... with my Condor touring set up ..
                      Thanks again Jack, I was wondering what model that one was. It looks like the closest incarnation to your boot is the Spirit 3, which alas dumped the vibram sole but does seem to have a nice sole. I also see there are still some Matrix boots around.

                      I noticed a lot of people have a love / hate relationship with the Scarpa heel / midfoot. I felt safer starting with the Garmont Mega Rides which I was able to get at less than half the price of some new Scarpas I'll see how they work out.

                      Planning to purchase my touring skis, bindings and skins this week yahh! Really the only off the shelf AT offering appears to be the Maruaders with center mount fritschi bindings :/.

                      Sherpas are now sold out and they can only do the custom mod in offseason. I noticed you seemed to like the Hagan 133s at one point, it almost sounded like they were using set back bindings from your description, found an SB dot com thread where you linked your partner on his

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odd0WHrOxEM

                      Looks like the current back country Hagan is their 130 cm off limits but I assume one can't put any kind of a set back AT binding on them either. Not sure about any remaining U.S. dealers either. I did get some Hagan Nanooks from SB dot com but I think they've now dropped Hagan.

                      Anyway fun stuff , can't wait to get out. Hopefully I can be all setup on Sherpas with binding mod for next season, or if I'm lucky late season this year.

                      thanks
                      Last edited by destin; 02-07-2010, 09:37 PM. Reason: typo

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Destin .. you scored some great boots , the Garmont mega-rides are a super boot and one of my backcountry buddies rides them and are great .. with AT boots the important thing is fit ..just like regular ski boots.

                        As to skiboards and short skis that will allow a direct drilled fritschi touring mount , you definitely mentioned the two available options . Both are currently available for purchase in the US.

                        The Summit Marauder is available for purchase from skiboards.com it is a symmetrical twin tip 125 cm skiboard that needs to be mounted center mounted if used with the Fritschi touring bindihng. It has slightly less surface area then the Condor and the Sherpa . It is a nice longboard skiboard and rides like a skiboard . It has lots of float .. in deep pow or crust you will need to weight your tails like any skiboard that is center mount but because it has a lot of float it is easy to do . On groomers it also performs well and feels like a skiboard .

                        The Hagan 130 is available for purchase from http://www.haganskiusa.com/HaganSki/Hagan.html
                        Bill ,here on the forum bought one this year . The Hagan is intended to be rear mounted for backcountry use, it was designed that way and the manufacturer recomends it mounted that way . , and I recommend it that way for backcountry use .( Bill on the forum has mounted his center which results in a more skiboard like feel and is nice if you are using the board mostly on firm snow ) . There is a mark on the ski which shows were the boot center line should be and this is about 12cm back of center on the short ski . It absolutely will accept a Fritschi binding rear set like this and is actually designed as a backountry ski to use with Alpine touring bindings and has plenty of thickness to drill bindings way back . Ridden rear set in this position it is absolutely wonderful in the backcountry and was my ride of choice for two seasons . My buddy Billy is now a Hagan convert . he rides his Hagan in the manufacturer recommended rear set position with telemark bindings. , Wendell here on the forum loves it as well although he mounted his binding a bit forward but not all the way forward like Bill , here on the forum .. The only caveat about all this . IMHO especially in the rear set position ., to me it does not feel at all like a skiboard but feels like a short ski . This is not bad but I really like the skiboard feel . It also has signficantly less float then the Maruader and I was faster in backcountry snow on the Marauder .

                        If you are looking for that skiboard feel .. i definitely would go with the Maruader .. For a real nice short ski go with the Hagan .. also it depends on your weight , If you are a lightweight guy the Hagan will work better for you then for a heavier guy in deep backcountry snow .. It is a little undergunned for my 190 lbs bod then the Marauder, Sherpa and Condor .in deep pow .
                        Boards :
                        Spliffs
                        DLPs
                        Condors
                        Slingshots
                        Sherpa

                        Boot:
                        K2 BFC 100

                        Bindings:
                        Zero Pro Non release Binding
                        Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                        Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
                        Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jjue View Post
                          Hi Destin .. you scored some great boots , the Garmont mega-rides are a super boot and one of my backcountry buddies rides them and are great .. with AT boots the important thing is fit ..just like regular ski boots.
                          great glad your experience with them seems to mirror what many others seemed to say.

                          Originally posted by jjue View Post
                          The Summit Marauder is available for purchase from skiboards.com it is a symmetrical twin tip 125 cm skiboard that needs to be mounted center mounted if used with the Fritschi touring bindihng. It has slightly less surface area then the Condor and the Sherpa . It is a nice longboard skiboard and rides like a skiboard . It has lots of float .. in deep pow or crust you will need to weight your tails like any skiboard that is center mount but because it has a lot of float it is easy to do . On groomers it also performs well and feels like a skiboard .
                          Thanks, yeh the AT setup is for 100% backcountry, don't expect to ever use them on groomers except to try out.
                          The Maruader is what I was going to get, but my impression was that I'd have to very awkwardly and uncomfortably weight the the tails to get through backcountry powder. Glad to hear you mention it's easy to do however...I've been concerned it's going to be such a hassle it'll take all the fun out of it.

                          Originally posted by jjue View Post
                          The Hagan 130 is available for purchase from http://www.haganskiusa.com/HaganSki/Hagan.html
                          Bill ,here on the forum bought one this year . The Hagan is intended to be rear mounted for backcountry use, it was designed that way and the manufacturer recomends it mounted that way . , and I recommend it that way for backcountry use .( Bill on the forum has mounted his center which results in a more skiboard like feel and is nice if you are using the board mostly on firm snow ) . There is a mark on the ski which shows were the boot center line should be and this is about 12cm back of center on the short ski . It absolutely will accept a Fritschi binding rear set like this and is actually designed as a backountry ski to use with Alpine touring bindings and has plenty of thickness to drill bindings way back . Ridden rear set in this position it is absolutely wonderful in the backcountry and was my ride of choice for two seasons . My buddy Billy is now a Hagan convert . he rides his Hagan in the manufacturer recommended rear set position with telemark bindings. , Wendell here on the forum loves it as well although he mounted his binding a bit forward but not all the way forward like Bill , here on the forum .. The only caveat about all this . IMHO especially in the rear set position ., to me it does not feel at all like a skiboard but feels like a short ski . This is not bad but I really like the skiboard feel . It also has signficantly less float then the Maruader and I was faster in backcountry snow on the Marauder .
                          OHHHH!!! The 130 Off Limits are DESIGNED for set back / rear mount and take the Fritschi that's what I wanted to hear!

                          Originally posted by jjue View Post
                          If you are looking for that skiboard feel .. i definitely would go with the Maruader .. For a real nice short ski go with the Hagan .. also it depends on your weight , If you are a lightweight guy the Hagan will work better for you then for a heavier guy in deep backcountry snow .. It is a little undergunned for my 190 lbs bod then the Marauder, Sherpa and Condor .in deep pow .
                          I'm lighter than you yes, 6 foot 155lbs, typically be doing two or three day tours, so probably 30 lbish pack plus or minus (I use a bivy and pack pretty light).

                          I'll mull over it more, the Maruaders don't sound as bad as I thought, but offhand the Hagan's with the recommened rear mount position sound safest. My main concern is getting where I want to go efficiently w/o bogging down or having to ski so awkwardly it takes all the fun out.

                          I'll make some inquiries to find the Hagans, pretty sure skiboards.com stopped selling I'll see what the dealer has to say.

                          thank you very much Jack

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My buddy Billy , is just about your weight and absolutely loves the Hagans , he used to ski long skis and moved down in length to the Hagans after trying my pair out ... certainly the Hagans are "easier"riding in backcountry then the Marauder .. absolutely no need to weight the heels , you ride in a balanced position , and the ski does everything for you ... I am now a skiboard purist and don't ride it anymore because it is too much like skiing but for those less pure in their devotion to the skiboarding true path .. it is an absolutely wonderful ride .. here is one of my very first video clip attempts ... which serves as a bit of a homage to the Hagan 130
                            My buddy Steve is on long skis , he is the guy who uses garmont megarides
                            My buddy Billy is on Tua telemark long skis , before his conversion to Hagans .

                            http://www.youtube.com/user/jjue#p/u/64/dEgih86zq24



                            Here is a little vid of Billy after his conversion to Hagan 130 ' s , he rocks on them both alpine style and telemark style in the backcountry ..



                            Sorry G , if this seems like a bit of an advertisement for short skis on a skiboard web site .. but I must say once again .. that my infatuation with the Hagan was short lived and I am now a covert to the pure church of skiboarding for good !
                            Just sold my telemark mounted Hagan with skins and telemark boots included to one of Billy's friends..
                            Boards :
                            Spliffs
                            DLPs
                            Condors
                            Slingshots
                            Sherpa

                            Boot:
                            K2 BFC 100

                            Bindings:
                            Zero Pro Non release Binding
                            Modified Receptor Backcountry Bindings (Bill Version and Slow Version)
                            Spruce ProPrime Plus Binding/Riser with Attack 13 GW binding
                            Custom Risers with Fritschi Backcountry Bindings (Jeff Singer version 1, Bill version)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It looks like the current Hagan 130 Off Limit skis are essentially the same ski as the Hagan 133 skis you refer to eh. I hope they still have the same rear set back mount design, I would assume so.

                              Originally posted by jjue View Post
                              I must say once again .. that my infatuation with the Hagan was short lived and I am now a covert to the pure church of skiboarding for good !
                              Just sold my telemark mounted Hagan with skins and telemark boots included to one of Billy's friends..
                              Thanks Jack, yeh I think I'd prefer more a Skiboard feel overall for sure, but for now should err on side of functionality. Perhaps Spruce will soon make some type of production Sherpa option for those who want AT / Tele and one won't have to go custom.

                              thanks

                              Comment

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