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2012 Rockered Condor – Summer Prototype Testing
This summer I had the pleasure of testing for Greco the prototype for the 2012 Rockered Condor . Greco made the boards available to me in late June for the testing and I was able to spend three days on the boards at Alpine Meadows Ski Resort at Lake Tahoe. We were blessed this year with an extraordinary late season snow pack and I was able to have top to bottom riding at Alpine Meadows all over the mountain . Two of the days were spent climbing the mountain on skins with the Receptor Backcountry Touring Kit (BTK) and one day was spent on July 3rd with top to bottom lift served riding when Alpine Meadows reopened the ski area for the Fourth of July holiday weekend.
Sorry for this extremely long post , but I want to discuss in detail what I consider one of the most outstanding innovations in skiboard design to date.
Before I get into the testing proper ,let me give you some background about Rocker technology . Rocker technology is now being applied both to skis and to snowboards for the last several years but up until now has never been applied to skiboards. This first video gives you a bit of the history of the rocker idea , starting with Shane McConkey’s innovative reverse camber, reverse side cut , early rise fully rockered ski the “Spatula”
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/zCLaajZY_yU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Rocker technology while originally intended for powder applications only , has recently trickled down to the design of all mountain and even recreational skis . Most of these designs have a hybrid design that includes some degree of camber in the center of the ski and less extreme rocker in the tips and the tails compared to powder specific rockered skis.
This next video explains the variety of modern ski designs that utilize Rocker technology and the benefits for all levels of skiers.
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/H2hexBJjuDQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
So much for skis . What about skiboards ? Three seasons ago Mark brought up the idea of a rockered Condor on SBOL . This generated quite a bit of discussion . As you can see from my comments on this thread , although I thought a rockered Condor would be sweet in powder I was very concerned about the loss of effective edge and the inability to control the board on steep firm snow . Nevertheless, there was final agreement that such a board would be a real cool development . Goudadoctor asked if we were being heard . Skafreak and Slow counseled patience. Well the patience paid off , we were heard and Greco came through this year with Mark’s original idea of a fully rockered Condor !
Here is the original thread on the SBOL Forum
http://www.skiboardsonline.com/forum...7486&page=1#en
So what did Greco do with the design of the Rockered Condor ? Did he follow the ski manufacturer’s lead and produce some sort of hybrid semi rockered skiboard preserving some camber and limiting the degree of rocker . The answer is no way ! Greco went all out and produced a design with no camber and an early rise to fully rockered tips and tails . It was a pure powder skiboard design . I got the prototype not in the dead of the powder season but in summer ! How would such a design work in spring and summer type conditions where edge hold was important ? Would I be sliding all over the place ?
The actual effective edge of this new Condor with it’s rockered tips and tails was about the effective edge of a 75cm Bantam skiboard ! This would be an exciting test drive and I had no idea about what to expect !
Here are some pictures of the rockered Condor prototype :
Laid bottoms together ….
On the bench , showing flat camber and early tip rise to rockered tips .
Front view … the new rockered Condors have the same side cut dimensions and shape and surface area as the original Condors .
Test Day 1:
For my first test drive , I climbed a closed Alpine Meadows Ski resort center mount with Full Tilt Booter boots on a BTK (backcountry touring kit) modified Revel8 Receptor binding .
Here is a picture of me on the rig in descent mode …
Here is the report I sent to Greco …
“Hi G,
Just got back from Alpine meadows , tons of snow there still , had a good time climbing and riding and getting a good feel for the prototype . Snow was ungroomed somewhat bumpy spring snow .. firm early and softening to slushy later .. descended , steep and gnarly lines as well as more moderate slopes ... I rode the boards with Receptor bindings (BTK kit ) , Full Tilt Booters , center mount without poles.
Bottom Line : You have designed a winner for sure !
Here are the details ....
Edge control on firm ... This is what I was most concerned about .. Didn't have to worry at all .. all the edge control on steep firm snow of the original version of the Condor is still there and maybe even better
I never slid on very steep and firm bumpy snow and felt totally secure ... I really think that the way the early tip rise occurs on the tip and tail gets the tips and tails out of the way but leaves the nice straighter edge under foot to do all the control work on the steep .
ps.The board actually traverses and side steps up steep hills on the climb better then the original version because of the way the tip and the tails are out of the way and I can pressure the straighter edge directly underfoot.
The board is super light weight and a joy to climb with ,
Carving ... Carving is a little different .. with the regular Condor you feel the tips and tails hook up right away in firm snow , with the rockered Condor the edge is felt and the tips and tails engage a bit later as you get the board over but the whole edge does eventually engage and it feels very similar to carving the regular condor either two footed or one footed carves . just a bit different at first in terms of the strong initial tip and tail hook up of the original version . It will be interesting what happens on smoother snow but I think the carving will be smoother and more similar to a condor with a more relaxed side cut , like the Spruce boards.
Suspension ... This is absolutely amazing .. I had bumpy variable firm snow and then slushy snow ... On the other two versions of the Condor I have found that I do better by setting the binding back 4cm to give more suspension in the tip and prevent tip dive and smooth out the ride and the effort needed to ride in variable snow . , I rode in bumpy snow last weekend on the original Condor center mount and it was a rocky ride ... The rockered tip and tails of the new prototype really provide wonderful suspension in difficult variable bumpy snow ... I ride smoother with less stress on my body . The tips work to keep the rough stuff from jostling the board as much ... It is pretty amazing and has to do with the early tip rise and flexible tip and tail , I think
Slushy snow ....
This will simulate what happens in powder ... The board sinks in the center and the tips and tails rise , up . .but it does not in any way feel like there is not enough support in fact it feels like there is a huge sweet spot under foot with the whole board floating smoothly underfoot with plenty of support but with the tips and tails working to keep you from having to work so much to keep your balance despite changes in snow consistency . The rockered Condor will be a revolution in allowing folks who seldom see powder ride it well .. .The rocker effect is like the big sweet spot on a Prince tennis racket ... Yes I can ride the regular condor versions in this kind of stuff just as well ( as long as I am set back on the board ) but on the rockered board there is significantly less work .. Right from a centered position the board does a lot of the work for the rider keeping him or her balanced.
Foot steering and zero camber ... the Condor of course is already easy to turn but this version is insanely easy to turn and fun , it just spins right around on the zero camber with no tips and tails getting in the way at all
Ground tricks and park tricks might be really nice on them .
I think I will love these things on moguls , none of that today !
On the straight aways ,the boards seemed to run straight like a regular condor and didn't seem to oscillate under foot like I feared .. Of course the snow was not ballroom smooth and there may be more diifficulty tracking straight away there but I really don't think so ... .
I really think that overall ,this is a more accessible and easier Condor for the vast majority of recreational riders , easier to turn , easier to manage , ride everything center mounted and ride powder without working at getting weight to the tails etc...
The 4th of July Weekend I will try them again on groomed slopes using the Rocker binding with snowboard boots center mount ...
IMHO it will completely revolutionize what we think about skiboarding and skiboard design ... The other thing to understand is that how rockers work in skis and snowboards does not necessarily transfer completely to how they work on skiboards, what happens on skiboards may be different and unique because of what happens because of the short length and very steep side cuts of our skiboards. Let me know if you have any other questions ..”
Test Day 2:
Next up was testing the Rockered Condor Prototype on groomed lift served snow , off piste moguls and chopped up steep spring snow . Alpine Meadows obliged with top to bottom Fourth of July lift served skiing and riding with great spring conditions.
Here is the email I sent to Greco ….
“G, Absolutely fabulous day riding the prototype at alpine meadows today with family. I was on the prototype center mounted with Revel8 soft boot riser, Rocker binding , and soft snowboard boots...
Conditions were really great, firmish but not icy in the morning at 800am, becoming slushy as the day went on . Very warm in the 70's with many folks wearing very little clothes includinng my family LOL .. I have included a short video of me riding off piste in choppy steep and moguled spring type snow . I think the video illustrates well how the rocker works in slushy snow .. The boards sink down in the center and the tips and tails ride higher .. The effect of this in variable and slushy snow is absolutely amazing ..It is way , off the map fun and a new sensation .. I guess I told you in my previous email it feels like a big sweet spot and I can do no wrong .. Right on ! It makes riding moguls , difficult snow , slushy snow and I suspect deep pow way easier and more fun .. Carving on groomed snow is as I have discussed before less hooky and more relaxed kind of like the Spruce boards .. You can carve , yet you can also just pivot underfoot and kind of spin the board into a turn really cool ... Moguls are a delight . very easy ... Steeps and edge control is again superb and on par with regular condor .. .Runs straight on groomed slopes without a hint of oscillation even if not carving edge to edge .. Suspension is amazing , and here is an amazing benefit .. Absolutely the best skiboard in slushy stuff I have ever ridden , other skiboards and the previous condors are prone to slowing down and getting stuck in the summer conditions . this damn thing cruises fast and furious without getting bogged down .. It is really amazing ... The tips and tails clear the snow and I am only on the little flat section underfoot and there is none of that suction effect I am used to on wide bodied skiboards slowing me down i can skate the thing foot to foot in flat slushy sections and not get as bogged down as on regular skiboards. I could go on and on , this thing does everything well and just creates one huge grin on your face .. Way different , new , revolutionary , playful , wonderful , super competent , a delight .. a joy .
Maybe not the best board for east coasters on ice all the time but for us out west in variable terrain whether in the ski area or in the backcountry this is the cat's meow ... I am really way , off the map , stoked on this board .. Well done ! ..”
Here is a photo of me and my kid sister having fun on a steep off piste run in spring /summer conditions . The Rockered Condors are carving just as well as a narrow long ski does !
Here is the you tube video of me riding the Rockered Condor .
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/mVeNqeTnG6I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Test Day 3:
Third day out was climbing again at the now closed Alpine Meadows. I was climbing a custom touring kit for the Receptor binding allowing me to use my wimpiest but most comfortable plastic ski boot, the two buckled low cut Garmont Excursion telemark boots. I wanted to see if I could control the rockered Condors on steep variable snow with my comfy wimpy boots .
Here I am climbing in this rig . I think you can see how the tips are rockered
Here is the letter I sent G….
“Hi G, still at it ... climbing at Alpine Meadows....
.. This time using my custom Receptor BTK and using my wimpy Garmont Excursion telemark boots...I was really interested to see how these comfy leather like soft plastic boots would do on the rockered condor ... I find that I can drive the original condor pretty well in the backcountry but I really need poles to help me with turning when I use those boots.... the first run yesterday on the rockered condor on steep spring snow with the wimpy boots was great and just as good or better control then with the regular condor ... but the real test came later... My neighbor broke one of his poles leaning on it too hard taking a misstep climbing and I loaned him one of mine and descended the second steep pitch with no poles ( just a ice ax reduced pole in one hand ) ... I found that the rockered Condor was easier to turn , easier for me to control on steep irregular terrain , then the regular condor with these wimpy boots and a lot of fun .. I think it has do do with the fact that it is really like turning and controlling a smaller skiboard..
These boots were way underpowered when I bought them for long skis and for Hagans 130's and sherpas but are perfect for the Condor and especially for the rockered Condor ..”
Here is a video of me riding the prototype with wimpy boots . I am trying to ride slow and in control on a steepish slope . Remember this is a rockered skiboard with the effective edge of a Bantam 75cm skiboard piloted with wimpy boots going slow in spring snow not powder. . I should be sliding out of control . No way ! This board is just magic !!!
<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-M4NepvB-qo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
So bottom line , what do I think ?? . This is just an amazing season for skiboarding and skiboarding innovation . Thanks to G , Rocker technology has been applied to my favorite skiboard and made what I felt was a perfect all mountain , all condition skiboard even better . The 2012 Rockered Condor will not be a one trick pony , quiver skiboard only meant for deep powder but rather an all mountain , all condition skiboard that is a true delight to use … A playful skiboard , with huge competence all over the mountain and in the backcountry .
Post script . I firmly believe that skiboards are not “just” short skis . There are special characteristics that make skiboards perform differently then long skis . The application of Rocker technology is just such an example . Without camber and early tip rise , long skis truly become one trick ponies meant for powder. Ski manufactures need to do things like adding back camber or using only partial rockered tips to allow the skis to hold an edge on firm snow . If you apply that logic to a 110 cm skiboard a fully Rockered zero camber skiboard like G’s design should be horrible in firm snow . I actually thought that would be the case . I was dead wrong . I asked my buddy Valmorel why the Rockered Condor holds an edge despite such a short effective edge and as usual Valmorel made the magic understandable :
Here is our recent email exchange :
The effective edge of the rockered Condor is actually somewhat less then the 75cm Bantam skiboard ...
Why does it hold an edge ? Most ski literature says that the biggest problems with true rockered skis similar in design to the Condor early tip rise . zero camber , is that they are really bad on firm snow , slide all the time .. ski manufacturers have changed the rockered ski design for all mountain use by adding back camber into the center of the ski and doing a late rockered tip and tail ... why does the convential ski wisdom not apply to the Condor ? if you follow ski theory .. the rockered Condor should be a one trick pony , great in pow but horrible on the groomers or firm snow .. also it should not be able to hold a straight line and wobble all over the place on straight running ? is there something about the short size of skiboards that make some of the conventional ski wisdom go out the door ?
... I remember an old discussion where we talked about short skiboards kind of behaving like ice skates... ie tremendous about of force can be built up under foot while putting the skiboard on edge , whereas that force is distributed along a very long edge on a traditional ski .. is there some reversal of physics here ? ie a traditional ski needs to have a longer effective edge to hold on ice whereas a shorter effective edge on a skiboard is ok ?? I know we also talked about narrow ski boards.. .but the Condor is super wide ..BUT on the rockered skiboard it seems because of the shorter effective edge it is EASIER to get on edge properly then the standard Condor .. I notice this most with my floppy garmont telemark boots
ps .my narrow 94cm line bullet has tremendous edge hold and performance on icy snow , ( like ice skates ) despite a very short effective edge ...
your thoughts ?????
Jack
Hmmm... this is a big subject Jack, and as I have not ridden the rockered Condor can only resort to analysis. First, never discount your own skill. You will be doing things without even knowing it, the muscle memory becomes such second nature.
Anyway, here is how I think it all happens: lets row back to the standard Condor. To get it up on edge, two factors work against us, firstly, the width of the middle of the board, and secondly the width of the tips. The camber ensures that as soon as we beging to go up on edge, the tips begin to resist via torsion.
With the rockered design, the tips engage much later, so it feels like the board is easier to edge.
Next, edge grip. My old hobby horse. The conventional Condor begins its turn as soon as the board is edged because of the wide tips, mostly, before there is sufficient angle to get good edge grip, so the edge goes 'soft'.
With the rockered Condor, the tips engage later, or at a higher angle of lean, which is already providing better edge grip. Much the same as bigger sidecut.
With regard to the actual grip, I do think that, yes, it is a question of point loading. Its a pretty short edge carrying a fair bit of weight, so as long as you know how to angulate to get that weight down through the edge, grip is going to be good. If you just lean like a beginner, then much less so.
There is also the question of the exponential nature of a circle to consider: if you have a 5.5 M radius on a longish board, say 110, the difference in width between the centre and the tip will be MUCH greater than the difference on a 99. We could argue that as a board gets longer, the sidecut radius should get greater, as it is the DIFFERENCE between waist width and tip width that actually determines the turn characteristics. The Condor rocker is sidestepping this issue by lifting the tips off the snow, giving an effective waist/tip width difference similar to a 75, so it should run straighter and be more neutral in feel when flat. It sounds like this is so.
A very interesting experiment.
Dave
This summer I had the pleasure of testing for Greco the prototype for the 2012 Rockered Condor . Greco made the boards available to me in late June for the testing and I was able to spend three days on the boards at Alpine Meadows Ski Resort at Lake Tahoe. We were blessed this year with an extraordinary late season snow pack and I was able to have top to bottom riding at Alpine Meadows all over the mountain . Two of the days were spent climbing the mountain on skins with the Receptor Backcountry Touring Kit (BTK) and one day was spent on July 3rd with top to bottom lift served riding when Alpine Meadows reopened the ski area for the Fourth of July holiday weekend.
Sorry for this extremely long post , but I want to discuss in detail what I consider one of the most outstanding innovations in skiboard design to date.
Before I get into the testing proper ,let me give you some background about Rocker technology . Rocker technology is now being applied both to skis and to snowboards for the last several years but up until now has never been applied to skiboards. This first video gives you a bit of the history of the rocker idea , starting with Shane McConkey’s innovative reverse camber, reverse side cut , early rise fully rockered ski the “Spatula”
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/zCLaajZY_yU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Rocker technology while originally intended for powder applications only , has recently trickled down to the design of all mountain and even recreational skis . Most of these designs have a hybrid design that includes some degree of camber in the center of the ski and less extreme rocker in the tips and the tails compared to powder specific rockered skis.
This next video explains the variety of modern ski designs that utilize Rocker technology and the benefits for all levels of skiers.
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/H2hexBJjuDQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
So much for skis . What about skiboards ? Three seasons ago Mark brought up the idea of a rockered Condor on SBOL . This generated quite a bit of discussion . As you can see from my comments on this thread , although I thought a rockered Condor would be sweet in powder I was very concerned about the loss of effective edge and the inability to control the board on steep firm snow . Nevertheless, there was final agreement that such a board would be a real cool development . Goudadoctor asked if we were being heard . Skafreak and Slow counseled patience. Well the patience paid off , we were heard and Greco came through this year with Mark’s original idea of a fully rockered Condor !
Here is the original thread on the SBOL Forum
http://www.skiboardsonline.com/forum...7486&page=1#en
So what did Greco do with the design of the Rockered Condor ? Did he follow the ski manufacturer’s lead and produce some sort of hybrid semi rockered skiboard preserving some camber and limiting the degree of rocker . The answer is no way ! Greco went all out and produced a design with no camber and an early rise to fully rockered tips and tails . It was a pure powder skiboard design . I got the prototype not in the dead of the powder season but in summer ! How would such a design work in spring and summer type conditions where edge hold was important ? Would I be sliding all over the place ?
The actual effective edge of this new Condor with it’s rockered tips and tails was about the effective edge of a 75cm Bantam skiboard ! This would be an exciting test drive and I had no idea about what to expect !
Here are some pictures of the rockered Condor prototype :
Laid bottoms together ….
On the bench , showing flat camber and early tip rise to rockered tips .
Front view … the new rockered Condors have the same side cut dimensions and shape and surface area as the original Condors .
Test Day 1:
For my first test drive , I climbed a closed Alpine Meadows Ski resort center mount with Full Tilt Booter boots on a BTK (backcountry touring kit) modified Revel8 Receptor binding .
Here is a picture of me on the rig in descent mode …
Here is the report I sent to Greco …
“Hi G,
Just got back from Alpine meadows , tons of snow there still , had a good time climbing and riding and getting a good feel for the prototype . Snow was ungroomed somewhat bumpy spring snow .. firm early and softening to slushy later .. descended , steep and gnarly lines as well as more moderate slopes ... I rode the boards with Receptor bindings (BTK kit ) , Full Tilt Booters , center mount without poles.
Bottom Line : You have designed a winner for sure !
Here are the details ....
Edge control on firm ... This is what I was most concerned about .. Didn't have to worry at all .. all the edge control on steep firm snow of the original version of the Condor is still there and maybe even better
I never slid on very steep and firm bumpy snow and felt totally secure ... I really think that the way the early tip rise occurs on the tip and tail gets the tips and tails out of the way but leaves the nice straighter edge under foot to do all the control work on the steep .
ps.The board actually traverses and side steps up steep hills on the climb better then the original version because of the way the tip and the tails are out of the way and I can pressure the straighter edge directly underfoot.
The board is super light weight and a joy to climb with ,
Carving ... Carving is a little different .. with the regular Condor you feel the tips and tails hook up right away in firm snow , with the rockered Condor the edge is felt and the tips and tails engage a bit later as you get the board over but the whole edge does eventually engage and it feels very similar to carving the regular condor either two footed or one footed carves . just a bit different at first in terms of the strong initial tip and tail hook up of the original version . It will be interesting what happens on smoother snow but I think the carving will be smoother and more similar to a condor with a more relaxed side cut , like the Spruce boards.
Suspension ... This is absolutely amazing .. I had bumpy variable firm snow and then slushy snow ... On the other two versions of the Condor I have found that I do better by setting the binding back 4cm to give more suspension in the tip and prevent tip dive and smooth out the ride and the effort needed to ride in variable snow . , I rode in bumpy snow last weekend on the original Condor center mount and it was a rocky ride ... The rockered tip and tails of the new prototype really provide wonderful suspension in difficult variable bumpy snow ... I ride smoother with less stress on my body . The tips work to keep the rough stuff from jostling the board as much ... It is pretty amazing and has to do with the early tip rise and flexible tip and tail , I think
Slushy snow ....
This will simulate what happens in powder ... The board sinks in the center and the tips and tails rise , up . .but it does not in any way feel like there is not enough support in fact it feels like there is a huge sweet spot under foot with the whole board floating smoothly underfoot with plenty of support but with the tips and tails working to keep you from having to work so much to keep your balance despite changes in snow consistency . The rockered Condor will be a revolution in allowing folks who seldom see powder ride it well .. .The rocker effect is like the big sweet spot on a Prince tennis racket ... Yes I can ride the regular condor versions in this kind of stuff just as well ( as long as I am set back on the board ) but on the rockered board there is significantly less work .. Right from a centered position the board does a lot of the work for the rider keeping him or her balanced.
Foot steering and zero camber ... the Condor of course is already easy to turn but this version is insanely easy to turn and fun , it just spins right around on the zero camber with no tips and tails getting in the way at all
Ground tricks and park tricks might be really nice on them .
I think I will love these things on moguls , none of that today !
On the straight aways ,the boards seemed to run straight like a regular condor and didn't seem to oscillate under foot like I feared .. Of course the snow was not ballroom smooth and there may be more diifficulty tracking straight away there but I really don't think so ... .
I really think that overall ,this is a more accessible and easier Condor for the vast majority of recreational riders , easier to turn , easier to manage , ride everything center mounted and ride powder without working at getting weight to the tails etc...
The 4th of July Weekend I will try them again on groomed slopes using the Rocker binding with snowboard boots center mount ...
IMHO it will completely revolutionize what we think about skiboarding and skiboard design ... The other thing to understand is that how rockers work in skis and snowboards does not necessarily transfer completely to how they work on skiboards, what happens on skiboards may be different and unique because of what happens because of the short length and very steep side cuts of our skiboards. Let me know if you have any other questions ..”
Test Day 2:
Next up was testing the Rockered Condor Prototype on groomed lift served snow , off piste moguls and chopped up steep spring snow . Alpine Meadows obliged with top to bottom Fourth of July lift served skiing and riding with great spring conditions.
Here is the email I sent to Greco ….
“G, Absolutely fabulous day riding the prototype at alpine meadows today with family. I was on the prototype center mounted with Revel8 soft boot riser, Rocker binding , and soft snowboard boots...
Conditions were really great, firmish but not icy in the morning at 800am, becoming slushy as the day went on . Very warm in the 70's with many folks wearing very little clothes includinng my family LOL .. I have included a short video of me riding off piste in choppy steep and moguled spring type snow . I think the video illustrates well how the rocker works in slushy snow .. The boards sink down in the center and the tips and tails ride higher .. The effect of this in variable and slushy snow is absolutely amazing ..It is way , off the map fun and a new sensation .. I guess I told you in my previous email it feels like a big sweet spot and I can do no wrong .. Right on ! It makes riding moguls , difficult snow , slushy snow and I suspect deep pow way easier and more fun .. Carving on groomed snow is as I have discussed before less hooky and more relaxed kind of like the Spruce boards .. You can carve , yet you can also just pivot underfoot and kind of spin the board into a turn really cool ... Moguls are a delight . very easy ... Steeps and edge control is again superb and on par with regular condor .. .Runs straight on groomed slopes without a hint of oscillation even if not carving edge to edge .. Suspension is amazing , and here is an amazing benefit .. Absolutely the best skiboard in slushy stuff I have ever ridden , other skiboards and the previous condors are prone to slowing down and getting stuck in the summer conditions . this damn thing cruises fast and furious without getting bogged down .. It is really amazing ... The tips and tails clear the snow and I am only on the little flat section underfoot and there is none of that suction effect I am used to on wide bodied skiboards slowing me down i can skate the thing foot to foot in flat slushy sections and not get as bogged down as on regular skiboards. I could go on and on , this thing does everything well and just creates one huge grin on your face .. Way different , new , revolutionary , playful , wonderful , super competent , a delight .. a joy .
Maybe not the best board for east coasters on ice all the time but for us out west in variable terrain whether in the ski area or in the backcountry this is the cat's meow ... I am really way , off the map , stoked on this board .. Well done ! ..”
Here is a photo of me and my kid sister having fun on a steep off piste run in spring /summer conditions . The Rockered Condors are carving just as well as a narrow long ski does !
Here is the you tube video of me riding the Rockered Condor .
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/mVeNqeTnG6I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Test Day 3:
Third day out was climbing again at the now closed Alpine Meadows. I was climbing a custom touring kit for the Receptor binding allowing me to use my wimpiest but most comfortable plastic ski boot, the two buckled low cut Garmont Excursion telemark boots. I wanted to see if I could control the rockered Condors on steep variable snow with my comfy wimpy boots .
Here I am climbing in this rig . I think you can see how the tips are rockered
Here is the letter I sent G….
“Hi G, still at it ... climbing at Alpine Meadows....
.. This time using my custom Receptor BTK and using my wimpy Garmont Excursion telemark boots...I was really interested to see how these comfy leather like soft plastic boots would do on the rockered condor ... I find that I can drive the original condor pretty well in the backcountry but I really need poles to help me with turning when I use those boots.... the first run yesterday on the rockered condor on steep spring snow with the wimpy boots was great and just as good or better control then with the regular condor ... but the real test came later... My neighbor broke one of his poles leaning on it too hard taking a misstep climbing and I loaned him one of mine and descended the second steep pitch with no poles ( just a ice ax reduced pole in one hand ) ... I found that the rockered Condor was easier to turn , easier for me to control on steep irregular terrain , then the regular condor with these wimpy boots and a lot of fun .. I think it has do do with the fact that it is really like turning and controlling a smaller skiboard..
These boots were way underpowered when I bought them for long skis and for Hagans 130's and sherpas but are perfect for the Condor and especially for the rockered Condor ..”
Here is a video of me riding the prototype with wimpy boots . I am trying to ride slow and in control on a steepish slope . Remember this is a rockered skiboard with the effective edge of a Bantam 75cm skiboard piloted with wimpy boots going slow in spring snow not powder. . I should be sliding out of control . No way ! This board is just magic !!!
<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-M4NepvB-qo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
So bottom line , what do I think ?? . This is just an amazing season for skiboarding and skiboarding innovation . Thanks to G , Rocker technology has been applied to my favorite skiboard and made what I felt was a perfect all mountain , all condition skiboard even better . The 2012 Rockered Condor will not be a one trick pony , quiver skiboard only meant for deep powder but rather an all mountain , all condition skiboard that is a true delight to use … A playful skiboard , with huge competence all over the mountain and in the backcountry .
Post script . I firmly believe that skiboards are not “just” short skis . There are special characteristics that make skiboards perform differently then long skis . The application of Rocker technology is just such an example . Without camber and early tip rise , long skis truly become one trick ponies meant for powder. Ski manufactures need to do things like adding back camber or using only partial rockered tips to allow the skis to hold an edge on firm snow . If you apply that logic to a 110 cm skiboard a fully Rockered zero camber skiboard like G’s design should be horrible in firm snow . I actually thought that would be the case . I was dead wrong . I asked my buddy Valmorel why the Rockered Condor holds an edge despite such a short effective edge and as usual Valmorel made the magic understandable :
Here is our recent email exchange :
The effective edge of the rockered Condor is actually somewhat less then the 75cm Bantam skiboard ...
Why does it hold an edge ? Most ski literature says that the biggest problems with true rockered skis similar in design to the Condor early tip rise . zero camber , is that they are really bad on firm snow , slide all the time .. ski manufacturers have changed the rockered ski design for all mountain use by adding back camber into the center of the ski and doing a late rockered tip and tail ... why does the convential ski wisdom not apply to the Condor ? if you follow ski theory .. the rockered Condor should be a one trick pony , great in pow but horrible on the groomers or firm snow .. also it should not be able to hold a straight line and wobble all over the place on straight running ? is there something about the short size of skiboards that make some of the conventional ski wisdom go out the door ?
... I remember an old discussion where we talked about short skiboards kind of behaving like ice skates... ie tremendous about of force can be built up under foot while putting the skiboard on edge , whereas that force is distributed along a very long edge on a traditional ski .. is there some reversal of physics here ? ie a traditional ski needs to have a longer effective edge to hold on ice whereas a shorter effective edge on a skiboard is ok ?? I know we also talked about narrow ski boards.. .but the Condor is super wide ..BUT on the rockered skiboard it seems because of the shorter effective edge it is EASIER to get on edge properly then the standard Condor .. I notice this most with my floppy garmont telemark boots
ps .my narrow 94cm line bullet has tremendous edge hold and performance on icy snow , ( like ice skates ) despite a very short effective edge ...
your thoughts ?????
Jack
Hmmm... this is a big subject Jack, and as I have not ridden the rockered Condor can only resort to analysis. First, never discount your own skill. You will be doing things without even knowing it, the muscle memory becomes such second nature.
Anyway, here is how I think it all happens: lets row back to the standard Condor. To get it up on edge, two factors work against us, firstly, the width of the middle of the board, and secondly the width of the tips. The camber ensures that as soon as we beging to go up on edge, the tips begin to resist via torsion.
With the rockered design, the tips engage much later, so it feels like the board is easier to edge.
Next, edge grip. My old hobby horse. The conventional Condor begins its turn as soon as the board is edged because of the wide tips, mostly, before there is sufficient angle to get good edge grip, so the edge goes 'soft'.
With the rockered Condor, the tips engage later, or at a higher angle of lean, which is already providing better edge grip. Much the same as bigger sidecut.
With regard to the actual grip, I do think that, yes, it is a question of point loading. Its a pretty short edge carrying a fair bit of weight, so as long as you know how to angulate to get that weight down through the edge, grip is going to be good. If you just lean like a beginner, then much less so.
There is also the question of the exponential nature of a circle to consider: if you have a 5.5 M radius on a longish board, say 110, the difference in width between the centre and the tip will be MUCH greater than the difference on a 99. We could argue that as a board gets longer, the sidecut radius should get greater, as it is the DIFFERENCE between waist width and tip width that actually determines the turn characteristics. The Condor rocker is sidestepping this issue by lifting the tips off the snow, giving an effective waist/tip width difference similar to a 75, so it should run straighter and be more neutral in feel when flat. It sounds like this is so.
A very interesting experiment.
Dave
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