Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Spruce binding question (basically, Pro Prime Plus vs. Pro Sport)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Spruce binding question (basically, Pro Prime Plus vs. Pro Sport)

    Hi all,

    I've been lurking these forums for a few years and have always been impressed with how kind and passionate people here are about skiboards. It's been an invaluable learning resource to me and now I've finally decided to take the plunge and get a pair. I've always rented regular skis in the past, but my girlfriend loves skiing (she has her own) and since we are starting to go more often (3-4x a year), it seems like a worthwhile investment.

    Some quick background info on me: I'm 33 and decently fit at 5'9" and 155lbs. I historically have skied once a year, usually in the Northeast as that's where I live. I'd consider myself as an intermediate skier, alternating between blues and single blacks (although maybe that's still beginner to some of you guys ). Far from an expert, but just good enough to make it down the mountain and have fun doing so.

    My brother has been skiboarding for more than 10 years, but since he lives in Europe I very rarely ever get a chance to ski with him, so I've unfortunately never had a chance to try his boards. That said, I used to be an amateur figure skater, and from what my brother says skiboards take you much closer to skating in terms of maneuverability and control. I love that idea and have been convinced by him (and you guys) that I should really give skiboarding a shot. If I don't like the boards, my brother said he'll take them off my hands since his are now getting pretty beat up, so I figure it's fairly limited downside for me.

    I've narrowed in on the Sticky Icky Icky's as my boards of choice, but am a bit stuck on the bindings. I know I want release as I'm getting older and even at 33 I can tell my knees aren't what they used to be. Also opting for brakes so as to not worry about getting nailed by my own boards in a bad tumble.

    The million dollar question is, do I get the Spruce Pro Prime Plus (Attack 13) or Pro Sport (SX 10)? I've run multiple searches on these forums, and I've read valmorel's great thread on the Prime Plus/Attack 13's. He and others love them for the tighter fit and "close to non-release" feel. That said, I still have a few concerns/questions:

    1) As an intermediate skier, will I really be able to tell the difference in the feel between the two? I realize this is subjective, but I guess I'm looking to see if there are any new viewpoints on this as valmorel's thread is five years old at this point.

    2) How big of a deal is the "0.5mm toe clearance" adjustment that seems to be required for the Attack 13 release to work properly? I've never owned my own skis and am not sure how to adjust that, so not sure if this is a real concern for a newbie. One thing I did notice is that this year the Attack 13's seem to have an all new toe piece "that features a horizontal spring for better power transmission, elastic travel and reliable release", so is this meant to address that particular issue?

    3) Will the 130mm wide brakes on the Prime Plus cause issues when turning with the SII's, given they are only 106mm wide? I've been told that brakes shouldn't be more than 10-15mm wider vs. ski width as the brakes will drag when carving. I don't know if this is also the case for skiboards? The 115mm brakes with the Pro Sport would seem to be a better fit in that regard, but again I don't know how big of a deal this is.

    4) The Pro Sport has a "TRP" diagonal release system, which I presume means it is designed to release in a wider variety of angles and situations compared with the Prime Plus. Does this make any practical difference in safety? Or is this really not a big deal?

    In totality, it kind of seems to me the Pro Sport is likely the better fit for me given that I won't have to worry about the 0.5mm toe clearance issue, the brake width seems to be a better match for the SII's, and is marginally more "injury preventative". That said, I am fortunate enough financially that the $100 difference isn't a deal-breaker, so if there is a case to be made that the Prime Plus/Attack 13's are a better long term investment (especially as I improve) then I can see that being the better choice.

    Appreciate any and all responses and opinions!


  • #2
    Hi there,

    Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your choice, you won't regret it ! I was a beginner-intermediate skier myself, gradually improving, but never really comfortable and struggling a lot. Had lots of years of skating behind me and like you spent a lot of time reading this forum left and right and decided to try skateboards. You cannot imagine how quick and easy you'll pick it up and how much fun and how easy everything will become. After 2-3 weeks I could tackle any blue-red-black slope (Europe rating, not sure how it translates to US slopes) with an ease and speed I could never imagine on skis ...

    You'll only have the problem of choice of boards , I'm already at my fourth pair and there's only one pair that I might let go, because of a bit of overlap

    Originally posted by warreo View Post
    1) As an intermediate skier, will I really be able to tell the difference in the feel between the two? I realize this is subjective, but I guess I'm looking to see if there are any new viewpoints on this as valmorel's thread is five years old at this point.
    Do not think so. I ride non-release and release, had two different bindings so far (a third one this winter will be an Attack 13) and I never had any issue with any of them. I don't do tricks and such, but for groomed slopes and a bit of off-piste, the bindings have not been an issue to me.


    Originally posted by warreo View Post
    2) How big of a deal is the "0.5mm toe clearance" adjustment that seems to be required for the Attack 13 release to work properly? I've never owned my own skis and am not sure how to adjust that, so not sure if this is a real concern for a newbie. One thing I did notice is that this year the Attack 13's seem to have an all new toe piece "that features a horizontal spring for better power transmission, elastic travel and reliable release", so is this meant to address that particular issue?
    It's easier than it sounds, there's a thread describing this someplace, it's just sliding a thin slip of plastic underneath, once you have the thread and the bindings in hand, it will make sense, don't worry about that.


    Originally posted by warreo View Post
    3) Will the 130mm wide brakes on the Prime Plus cause issues when turning with the SII's, given they are only 106mm wide? I've been told that brakes shouldn't be more than 10-15mm wider vs. ski width as the brakes will drag when carving. I don't know if this is also the case for skiboards? The 115mm brakes with the Pro Sport would seem to be a better fit in that regard, but again I don't know how big of a deal this is.
    keep in mind this is the total width, so 130-106 = 24mm both sides, which means 12mm clearance on each side. Also keep in mind that the bindings are not attached directly to the skiboards, but to the raisers that are a few cm tall, so the brakes won't be that close to the snow. Sounds to me like the angle to the snow should be quite tight in order for the brakes to touch, but I'd say it's easy to test it yourself with a sort of simulation, diy cardboard cutting it a bit to the width and height of skiboards and brakes.


    Originally posted by warreo View Post
    In totality, it kind of seems to me the Pro Sport is likely the better fit for me given that I won't have to worry about the 0.5mm toe clearance issue, the brake width seems to be a better match for the SII's, and is marginally more "injury preventative". That said, I am fortunate enough financially that the $100 difference isn't a deal-breaker, so if there is a case to be made that the Prime Plus/Attack 13's are a better long term investment (especially as I improve) then I can see that being the better choice.
    Have you seen this page : http://www.skiboardsonline.com/spruce_chooser.html

    The Prime Plus are the higher end of the two and the wider brakes will work on any other board you might get in the future. And the bindings are of course replaceable, if the model and width will really be a problem - which I doubt - you'll be able to easily sell the Attack 13 and put something else in place.


    I'm sure other more knowledgeable fellow members will chip in with better information, until then, hope this is of some help.
    Revel8 2010 Revolt Trees 105cm
    Raptors 125LE
    Blunt XL
    Spruce Yellow/Red 120s

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by warreo View Post
      Hi all,

      I've been lurking these forums for a few years and have always been impressed with how kind and passionate people here are about skiboards. It's been an invaluable learning resource to me and now I've finally decided to take the plunge and get a pair. I've always rented regular skis in the past, but my girlfriend loves skiing (she has her own) and since we are starting to go more often (3-4x a year), it seems like a worthwhile investment.

      Some quick background info on me: I'm 33 and decently fit at 5'9" and 155lbs. I historically have skied once a year, usually in the Northeast as that's where I live. I'd consider myself as an intermediate skier, alternating between blues and single blacks (although maybe that's still beginner to some of you guys ). Far from an expert, but just good enough to make it down the mountain and have fun doing so.

      My brother has been skiboarding for more than 10 years, but since he lives in Europe I very rarely ever get a chance to ski with him, so I've unfortunately never had a chance to try his boards. That said, I used to be an amateur figure skater, and from what my brother says skiboards take you much closer to skating in terms of maneuverability and control. I love that idea and have been convinced by him (and you guys) that I should really give skiboarding a shot. If I don't like the boards, my brother said he'll take them off my hands since his are now getting pretty beat up, so I figure it's fairly limited downside for me.

      I've narrowed in on the Sticky Icky Icky's as my boards of choice, but am a bit stuck on the bindings. I know I want release as I'm getting older and even at 33 I can tell my knees aren't what they used to be. Also opting for brakes so as to not worry about getting nailed by my own boards in a bad tumble.

      The million dollar question is, do I get the Spruce Pro Prime Plus (Attack 13) or Pro Sport (SX 10)? I've run multiple searches on these forums, and I've read valmorel's great thread on the Prime Plus/Attack 13's. He and others love them for the tighter fit and "close to non-release" feel. That said, I still have a few concerns/questions:

      1) As an intermediate skier, will I really be able to tell the difference in the feel between the two? I realize this is subjective, but I guess I'm looking to see if there are any new viewpoints on this as valmorel's thread is five years old at this point.

      2) How big of a deal is the "0.5mm toe clearance" adjustment that seems to be required for the Attack 13 release to work properly? I've never owned my own skis and am not sure how to adjust that, so not sure if this is a real concern for a newbie. One thing I did notice is that this year the Attack 13's seem to have an all new toe piece "that features a horizontal spring for better power transmission, elastic travel and reliable release", so is this meant to address that particular issue?

      3) Will the 130mm wide brakes on the Prime Plus cause issues when turning with the SII's, given they are only 106mm wide? I've been told that brakes shouldn't be more than 10-15mm wider vs. ski width as the brakes will drag when carving. I don't know if this is also the case for skiboards? The 115mm brakes with the Pro Sport would seem to be a better fit in that regard, but again I don't know how big of a deal this is.

      4) The Pro Sport has a "TRP" diagonal release system, which I presume means it is designed to release in a wider variety of angles and situations compared with the Prime Plus. Does this make any practical difference in safety? Or is this really not a big deal?

      In totality, it kind of seems to me the Pro Sport is likely the better fit for me given that I won't have to worry about the 0.5mm toe clearance issue, the brake width seems to be a better match for the SII's, and is marginally more "injury preventative". That said, I am fortunate enough financially that the $100 difference isn't a deal-breaker, so if there is a case to be made that the Prime Plus/Attack 13's are a better long term investment (especially as I improve) then I can see that being the better choice.

      Appreciate any and all responses and opinions!
      Welcome to the dysfunctional family of skiboarding! I started here about 1.5 years ago and have fallen in love with it is. I started on non-release which is absolutely the best feeling connection to the board possible. I am 37 and have 2 completely rebuilt ankles so I figured release would be the best way to go for me. I bought a used set of Risers that came with essentially the SX10. Great set of riser/binding combo. I was extremely happy with them until I tried the Attack 13.... They are probably the closest feeling to the non-release that you can get. Now remember that the Risers do add weight to the set-up, but ultimately feel wise, at least for me, it was very close. Get what you can. If you want to start out brand new, then go for it. If not, get what you can and keep your eyes open for upgrades. You will never have trouble getting rid of any skiboard bindings whether it being release or non-release.

      Make sure to join The Skiboard Connection on Facebook if you use that platform of social media. Where are you located?

      Comment


      • #4
        Had lots of years of skating behind me and like you spent a lot of time reading this forum left and right and decided to try skateboards. You cannot imagine how quick and easy you'll pick it up and how much fun and how easy everything will become. After 2-3 weeks I could tackle any blue-red-black slope (Europe rating, not sure how it translates to US slopes) with an ease and speed I could never imagine on skis ...
        Thanks for sharing your experience and answering my questions, really helpful especially knowing that you also used to skate. Makes me feel like I made the right decision!

        keep in mind this is the total width, so 130-106 = 24mm both sides, which means 12mm clearance on each side. Also keep in mind that the bindings are not attached directly to the skiboards, but to the raisers that are a few cm tall, so the brakes won't be that close to the snow. Sounds to me like the angle to the snow should be quite tight in order for the brakes to touch, but I'd say it's easy to test it yourself with a sort of simulation, diy cardboard cutting it a bit to the width and height of skiboards and brakes.
        Regarding the brake width/clearance, it does seem like the 10-15mm recommendation is for both sides combined, not for each side. Per evo.com:

        "Your skis’ waist width will determine the ski brake width (the distance between the two brake arms). For example, if your skis are 80mm wide at the waist, you will need bindings with a brake width of at least 80 mm and preferably no wider than 95 mm. If your brakes are too narrow they will not clear the edges of your skis and will not deploy properly when your ski comes off. If your brakes are too wide they may drag when you put your skis on edge, especially on steeper terrain."

        Hopefully other people can also chime in with their experiences/opinions on how much this actually matters for skiboarding.

        Originally posted by mvhoffman View Post

        Welcome to the dysfunctional family of skiboarding! I started here about 1.5 years ago and have fallen in love with it is. I started on non-release which is absolutely the best feeling connection to the board possible. I am 37 and have 2 completely rebuilt ankles so I figured release would be the best way to go for me. I bought a used set of Risers that came with essentially the SX10. Great set of riser/binding combo. I was extremely happy with them until I tried the Attack 13.... They are probably the closest feeling to the non-release that you can get. Now remember that the Risers do add weight to the set-up, but ultimately feel wise, at least for me, it was very close. Get what you can. If you want to start out brand new, then go for it. If not, get what you can and keep your eyes open for upgrades. You will never have trouble getting rid of any skiboard bindings whether it being release or non-release.

        Make sure to join The Skiboard Connection on Facebook if you use that platform of social media. Where are you located?
        Thanks for sharing as well. The tight feeling with the board definitely echoes the experience of valmorel and Gromit. Any thoughts on the brake width question? Not sure if your board is as thin as the SII's.

        I'm based in NY. Will definitely check out the Facebook page!

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks for sharing as well. The tight feeling with the board definitely echoes the experience of valmorel and Gromit. Any thoughts on the brake width question? Not sure if your board is as thin as the SII's.

          I'm based in NY. Will definitely check out the Facebook page![/QUOTE]

          so don’t get held up on the brake issue. Yes 130 will be pretty big on SII, however brakes are cheap. You can find a set on eBay for a few dollars.

          check out the East Coast Connection on here and the Facebook page. There will be a nice group of us heading to Mt Snow in Jan. Good opportunity to ride with some fellow skiboarders.

          Comment


          • #6
            Check these out.
            https://www.spruceski.com/store/p45/...mm_Brake_.html

            They have the horizontal spring and the toe height adjustment, the same as other bindings in the Attack range. The 115mm brakes will work well with the Stickys too.

            Jeff at Spruce is a great guy.

            2015 RVL8 Blunt XL 100 skiboards
            Tyrolia Attack 13 release bindings on Spruce Risers
            Atomic Waymaker 80 ski boots

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Gromit View Post
              Check these out.
              https://www.spruceski.com/store/p45/...mm_Brake_.html

              They have the horizontal spring and the toe height adjustment, the same as other bindings in the Attack range. The 115mm brakes will work well with the Stickys too.

              Jeff at Spruce is a great guy.
              This sounds like a winner! Thanks Gromit!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by warreo View Post

                This sounds like a winner! Thanks Gromit!
                You're welcome, warreo.
                Don't forget to ask Jeff at Spruce for some screws to attach the Spruce Risers to the SII's.

                2015 RVL8 Blunt XL 100 skiboards
                Tyrolia Attack 13 release bindings on Spruce Risers
                Atomic Waymaker 80 ski boots

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gromit View Post

                  You're welcome, warreo.
                  Don't forget to ask Jeff at Spruce for some screws to attach the Spruce Risers to the SII's.
                  Thanks for that reminder, would have forgotten to ask otherwise. I know the Spruce Risers were originally built for Spruce skiboards, is it safe to assume that the same screws Jeff would include will be the right length/compatible for the SII's?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by warreo View Post

                    Thanks for that reminder, would have forgotten to ask otherwise. I know the Spruce Risers were originally built for Spruce skiboards, is it safe to assume that the same screws Jeff would include will be the right length/compatible for the SII's?
                    The screws for the Spruce risers are M6. The original screws are Phillips heads, but a lot of us swap them out for Hex heads, as they are easier to use when it's icy. You can get them at places like Ace hardware. The risers are designed to work with the 4x4 pattern, which you find on all modern skiboard, and the 4x10 pattern, which you find on most longboards. Hope that helps.
                    Just these, nothing else !

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bad Wolf View Post

                      The screws for the Spruce risers are M6. The original screws are Phillips heads, but a lot of us swap them out for Hex heads, as they are easier to use when it's icy. You can get them at places like Ace hardware. The risers are designed to work with the 4x4 pattern, which you find on all modern skiboard, and the 4x10 pattern, which you find on most longboards. Hope that helps.
                      Appreciate the info Bad Wolf. Do you know off hand what length is best? Or can I pretty much just match the length of the screws that Jeff will include with the Risers?

                      BTW your reviews and commentary over the years was a key reason I decided to get the SII's, so thank you. You've made a convert out of me, and I'm sure many other people as well

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by warreo View Post
                        Appreciate the info Bad Wolf. Do you know off hand what length is best? Or can I pretty much just match the length of the screws that Jeff will include with the Risers?

                        BTW your reviews and commentary over the years was a key reason I decided to get the SII's, so thank you. You've made a convert out of me, and I'm sure many other people as well
                        Jeff Singer will supply stainless steel M6 x 30mm screws with countersunk Philips No.3 heads. Note that the 30mm measurement is the overall length of the screws including the heads.

                        If you only intend to use a single pair of skiboards in any skiing day then No. 3 Philips screwdrivers are usually available in the tool racks at lift stations (here in Europe, I guess that USA/Canada are the same) should any of the screws work loose. I agree with Bad Wolf that hex-socket headed screws are easier to deal with though.

                        2015 RVL8 Blunt XL 100 skiboards
                        Tyrolia Attack 13 release bindings on Spruce Risers
                        Atomic Waymaker 80 ski boots

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gromit View Post

                          Jeff Singer will supply stainless steel M6 x 30mm screws with countersunk Philips No.3 heads. Note that the 30mm measurement is the overall length of the screws including the heads.

                          If you only intend to use a single pair of skiboards in any skiing day then No. 3 Philips screwdrivers are usually available in the tool racks at lift stations (here in Europe, I guess that USA/Canada are the same) should any of the screws work loose. I agree with Bad Wolf that hex-socket headed screws are easier to deal with though.
                          Thanks Gromit! Can't believe how knowledgeable y'all are.

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X