Adding my thoughts to the "ski question"

[snowjam]

Hey all,

I had a really fun experience today on the mountain so I thought I'd add my thoughts to the growing "ski experimentation" movement on the forum.

One of the great things I've experienced with a few seasons of skiboarding under my belt is an enhanced sense of confidence on the mountain. When I previously snowboarded/skied, I never felt particularly confident trying new things and progressed much slower. When I hopped on skiboards, my rollerblading background kicked in, and the very "natural" feel of skiboards allowed me to try new tricks and terrain with more confidence. I have found myself progressing much faster in terms of tricks that I want to learn and how aggressive I can ride all mountain terrain.

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That said, I've felt a growing twinge of curiosity towards how long skis might fit into my snowsports experience. Today I finally rented a pair of twin tips from rental shop I used to work and braced myself for an interesting day.

I have to say, I was very pleasantly surprised about the way that skiing felt. I'll try to keep my thoughts thorough but concise so I can get some reactions from all of you:

* While it took some adjustment at first, skis felt more maneuverable and skate-like than I remembered! I had no problem making quick parallel turns.
* The minor differences between ski and skiboard technique were apparent, but were not significantly difficult to conquer.
* Skis definitely have some advantages. I was able to make turns going much faster due to the enhanced stability and edge grip on the icy snow.

The biggest observation I garnered from today is how the skiboarding experience transitions into the ski experience. I really think that my time on skiboards has improved my ability to ski with confidence.

Ski technique benefits from a more aggressive stance, so being able to lean into a challenging slope rather than hesitating allowed me to ski much more aggressively. Where I used to be apprehensive on skis, I could now rip down terrain with the confidence I learned on skiboards. I also found today that the enhanced stability and edge grip of longer skis worked well with the short, quick-turning skiboard style in an interesting way. Combining quick turns with the enhanced edge grip and stability of long skis made it fun to rip down icy/mixed terrain without the "about to slip out" feeling I have sometimes experienced on my Blunts. I've always preferred making turns to bombing slopes regardless of what I'm riding

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Overall, I would say that my long ski experience today was very positive, and my enjoyment of skis was enhanced by my skate-like skiboarding style! I am thinking about potentially adding a pair of twin tips to my quiver like other members of the forum

I would love to hear thoughts from other skiboarders who have tried long skiing after a hiatus, or have always done both.

[Kocho]

To me ski and skiboarding are the same type of sport, with skiboards near the nimble and light and skis on the stable and heavy side of the spectrum.

After many years of skiing, and not progressing that much, only a couple of seasons of skiboarding allowed me to figure out how skis were supposed to work . I think I am now in my third year skiboarding, maybe 4th (who's counting...). And last season I went back to skis for a good chunk of my skiing, both full sized and Jeff's junior skis adaptations. And I found my skiing has improved so much without skiing that it was a completely new feeling. Like you, I was less afraid to experiment with the skiboards, thus internalizing the feel and science of skiing. And that allowed me to return to long skis much more successfully and begin to enjoy them more than before.

I think this season I'm beginning to form my preferences a bit more clearly. For skis, I seem to like 3 types: short and easy to ride (like Caddy and Ethan from Jeff), long and heavy and stable but still not too demanding (like the Volkl RTM 84), and narrower and more precise skis for carving turns (like the Head i.Supershape short turn radius models). I probably want a 4th type, powder skis, but I don't see almost any powder worth mentioning, so I do not own a pair of these. For skiboards, I'm still experimenting and like a similar mix as my skis, except the skiboards do it with much less weight, more agility, and at more moderate speeds and smaller slopes.

It's good to switch between skis and skiboards for the different skills I develop on each. On skiboards I learn to be centered. On skis I learn to shift my weight fore and aft. On skiboards I don't need to think so much about parallel skis or plan my turns too far in advance, I can react instantaneously. On skis I need to feel how they work and not force them to do something they won't do.

The jr. shorties that are in the middle of the abovementioned spectrum seem to be great for easy going days, smaller resorts, and as my only ski if I know the conditions would be mixed. Due to my 200lb I find the Ethans (in 141 and 151cm) more versatile than the Caddies. The Caddies work well for me on firm groomers, but if there is a mix with deeper conditions, I felt wanting to switch to the bigger Ethans. So I usually do not take the Caddies as my only ski for the day, if I expect any sort of deeper conditions to form.

The Volkl RTM I like on big wide groomed slopes regardless of the snow conditions: smooth, choppy, icy, deep - doesn't matter, they go through it all, carve great, are fast, damp, and stable. I can go slow on them, I can go fast on them.

But the RTMs are heavy and if I have to do small turns all day, I would rather be on a shorter and more nimble ski. So this season I bought just a ski like that - the Head i.Supershape Titan, in 156cm length. I skied it for a fist time yesterday and I am very pleased with it. It has a very tight turn radius, like the 151cm Ethan Two. At slow speeds both carve nicely. At more aggressive carving, the Titan definitely has an advantage over the Ethan - longer effective edge, stiffer flex overall, more solid edge hold. The Titan is a lot of fun and high-performance carving ski without being too demanding. The Ethan on the other hand is more forgiving, more surfy, more slarvy, less edgy. The Titan in the 156 length is very nimble and relatively light for me. Great for short turns and does not tire me much. Quite stable at higher speeds too. I broke my personal record on it yesterday (50mph) and could have gone faster without much trouble.

For skiboards, I'm still trying to find my "preferred" board. So far I like the Dynastar the best for groomed days: wide enough to go through anything on the groomer, not too stiff, not too soft, not too long, not too short, carves the most agreeable turns of any skiboard I've had (long turn radius, almost ski-like). I still have not been able to properly fix its edges for frozen stuff - they are too beat-up and rounded from park use, so as much as I like it, on ice it is not fun but I think has the potential to be at least decent there. It needs a base grind, but at $50 for that I will need to ride it a bit longer to decide if it is a keeper and maybe try to find a better preserved specimen. For deeper and messier conditions I like the KTPs very much, but on firm and icy they are too wide. The regular Blunts I've only had out once so far - nice in deep stuff, but I need to ride them more to decide if they are keepers (as they are not that much fun on icy firm stuff). Maybe I will downsize to a single board, like the SII or Dynastars on the skiboard front, perhaps with a Rockered Condor for really soft days when I still want to go short. For the rest - skis

[Bad Wolf]

I would love to hear thoughts from other skiboarders who have tried long skiing after a hiatus, or have always done both.

I can't ski anymore, at least not with any confidence.

[valmorel]

Just don't want to lug all that heavy junk around anymore 😊

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[Fedfan]

...The Volkl RTM I like on big wide groomed slopes regardless of the snow conditions: smooth, choppy, icy, deep - doesn't matter, they go through it all, carve great, are fast, damp, and stable. I can go slow on them, I can go fast on them.

But the RTMs are heavy and if I have to do small turns all day, I would rather be on a shorter and more nimble ski. So this season I bought just a ski like that - the Head i.Supershape Titan, in 156cm length. I skied it for a fist time yesterday and I am very pleased with it. It has a very tight turn radius, like the 151cm Ethan Two. At slow speeds both carve nicely. At more aggressive carving, the Titan definitely has an advantage over the Ethan - longer effective edge, stiffer flex overall, more solid edge hold. The Titan is a lot of fun and high-performance carving ski without being too demanding. The Ethan on the other hand is more forgiving, more surfy, more slarvy, less edgy. The Titan in the 156 length is very nimble and relatively light for me. Great for short turns and does not tire me much. Quite stable at higher speeds too. I broke my personal record on it yesterday (50mph) and could have gone faster without much trouble.
...

Kocho, did you consider a shorter RTM?

[Gromit]

Overall, I would say that my long ski experience today was very positive, and my enjoyment of skis was enhanced by my skate-like skiboarding style! I am thinking about potentially adding a pair of twin tips to my quiver like other members of the forum

I would love to hear thoughts from other skiboarders who have tried long skiing after a hiatus, or have always done both.

Hi snowjam, rather than get some skis to add to your quiver, I would suggest that you try out the Blunt's bigger brother, the Blunt XLs. A bit more stability than the Blunts without losing the playfulness and somewhat quicker too.

[Kocho]

Not when I was buying, mine are still on the "short" end for my height, "only" 176cm (I should be using at least 10cm or longer for this type of ski per most ski "experts").

I have not tried the shorter versions with tighter radius. They might be nice and could be a great all mountain ski (on-slope oriented). Mine have something like 18m radius, which is nice on big open slopes.

I also have my old 14m radius 76mm wide skis, which no one wants to buy from me as they think they are "beginner's" skis. I skied them on Sunday for a first time in three years, and they felt great - light, forgiving, still excellent edge bite. The 14m radius is just about perfect for the average day on my local slopes as ski go. And slots nicely between the tighter radius Heads and the bigger radius Volkls. They are easy carving skis. The only thing they do not do as well as the more aggressive carvers, like the Head Titan, is ultimate grip during carving - they are softer and I can feel the tips and tails do not cut and hold during a carve as strong as the Titan does, but it is only during the half a dozen turns on some runs that I try to ski that aggressively that it shows. Those are advanced turns, so for 80% of the people I see on these same slopes never ski this way and these skis are perfect for everything else on the groomers.

I typically stay with 1 ski during the day, maybe 2 (could be a skiboard). But like to have the option to switch from day to day, especially during the couple of multi-day trips we take each year. The skis I hot are so different from each other that they each teach something different and are fun in different ways. I can't for example lay as aggressive carves with the Ethans or my older skis as I can with the Titans - just not enough edge support. And I can't as easily and freely slide about on them as on the shorter and nimble Ethans or skiboards ...

Kocho, did you consider a shorter RTM?

[Kocho]

When I tried Macro's XLs I hated them. This was on very firm and icy groomers, which is the majority of conditions I ski. The regular Blunts are similar in this regards, just smaller and nimbler. I might give the XLs or Spliffs or Condors/RCs a try again this year if I get s chance to sample them in good snow. But just like not having true powder skis since I don't get much powder riding, I don't think I would enjoy the widest boards much of the time.

Hi snowjam, rather than get some skis to add to your quiver, I would suggest that you try out the Blunt's bigger brother, the Blunt XLs. A bit more stability than the Blunts without losing the playfulness and somewhat quicker too.

[Wookie]

Just don't want to lug all that heavy junk around anymore 

+1 for this --- there is something freeing about no poles, no ski racks, no bulk ..... minimalism is tops on my "why I love skiboarding" list.

[snowjam]

Hi snowjam, rather than get some skis to add to your quiver, I would suggest that you try out the Blunt's bigger brother, the Blunt XLs. A bit more stability than the Blunts without losing the playfulness and somewhat quicker too.

That's a great suggestion as well. I am also considering that it might be time to upgrade to bigger, more aggressive skiboards. I was thinking KTPs or regular Condors so I can get something with more predictability and stability than the Blunts.

[snowjam]

To me ski and skiboarding are the same type of sport, with skiboards near the nimble and light and skis on the stable and heavy side of the spectrum.

After many years of skiing, and not progressing that much, only a couple of seasons of skiboarding allowed me to figure out how skis were supposed to work . I think I am now in my third year skiboarding, maybe 4th (who's counting...). And last season I went back to skis for a good chunk of my skiing, both full sized and Jeff's junior skis adaptations. And I found my skiing has improved so much without skiing that it was a completely new feeling. Like you, I was less afraid to experiment with the skiboards, thus internalizing the feel and science of skiing. And that allowed me to return to long skis much more successfully and begin to enjoy them more than before.

Very cool observations, Kocho, and very similar to my own t was fascinating to see how skiboarding allowed me to ski better. They really are closer than we sometimes think.

[rickylink]

Not cool

Skiing / long skis... has lost it's cool factor for me.

[valmorel]

It's one of life's lessons. Less is ALWAYS more. Even with money.
It's not obvious though, and takes time and resources to figure out. There are a bunch of us old timers on here, Jjue, Bill, Wendell, me, who are retired now, and I bet they agree.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[snowjam]

It's one of life's lessons. Less is ALWAYS more. Even with money.
It's not obvious though, and takes time and resources to figure out. There are a bunch of us old timers on here, Jjue, Bill, Wendell, me, who are retired now, and I bet they agree.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Neat observation about life in general...and I'd have to agree for the most part. I take a lot of pride in building exactly what I need for my hobby kits and otherwise. I don't like collecting things, and I wouldn't call myself a minimalist either.

I enjoy the process of building a finely tuned kit that meets my need and where all my gear is used regularly. Maybe there is a place for long skis in my kit, maybe a longer pair of skiboards. Experimentation will tell

[Gromit]

Spliffs?

That's a great suggestion as well. I am also considering that it might be time to upgrade to bigger, more aggressive skiboards. I was thinking KTPs or regular Condors so I can get something with more predictability and stability than the Blunts.

Bigger, more aggressive than the Blunt XLs? Then maybe also have a look at the Spliffs as well as the KTPs and Regular Condors?