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  • A question about bindings and risers

    I'm looking at some release bindings and I have some questions. First, what's the deal with risers? I bought them for mine since that's what's sold here and I have to assume the setup works fairly well, but other sites (skiboards.com in particular) strongly discourage the use of risers saying they're unsafe and void any safety of the release bindings. Another reason I got risers is because they attach easily into the 4x4 pattern. So how do you attach bindings without a riser? What are your opinions/experiences and what do you suggest?

  • #2
    I came across this also. I don't think there is any other option to attach release bindings that use the 4 stud pattern without a riser.

    I have only demo'd a set with non release bindings and they did feel good. But it would always be in the back of my mind that if something does happen they won't release. I have a friend mocking up some risers at the moment for me to try and i would rather use a riser + release binding set up than non release

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by mary View Post
      I'm looking at some release bindings and I have some questions. First, what's the deal with risers? I bought them for mine since that's what's sold here and I have to assume the setup works fairly well, but other sites (skiboards.com in particular) strongly discourage the use of risers saying they're unsafe and void any safety of the release bindings. Another reason I got risers is because they attach easily into the 4x4 pattern. So how do you attach bindings without a riser? What are your opinions/experiences and what do you suggest?
      Mary, be very cautious when considering the claims being made by other sites. There is competitive and business relationship history coming into play, rather than reality. If you do a search on this forum, you will be able to find some of the history if you are curious. FWIIW: many of us have been past customers and participants on each of the competitors forums, but over time we have propagated to this forum and product line based on our experiences with both.

      More importantly, many of us who have been using risers for 11 plus years since their introduction without any of the issues claimed by the other sites.

      The most significant benefits of a Spruce riser system are:
      * easy transferability from one pair of skiboards to another (as you pointed out)
      * Maximizes the amount of skiboard flex (this is desirable) with its shorter interface with the skiboard
      * Smoothes the ride over hard crud
      * Inserts that are more robust than screws threaded into thin sheet metal in the skiboard (I have never heard of an insert pulling out of a skiboard)

      The only negatives that I am aware of with the riser system are:
      * the small additional amount of weight associated with the riser. But relative to the weight of your ski boots, it is insignificant.
      * some riders would prefer to mount a different brand binding to the riser

      Here is more information on the riser: http://www.spruceski.com/the-spruce-riser.html

      As for attaching bindings directly to a skiboard without a riser, a reinforcement plate is required because skiboards are thinner than skis and generally have a soft wood core. This thin aluminum reinforcement plate (to thread the mounting screw into) is under the top sheet of the skiboard (like on skiboard.coms products). The robustness of this connection is dependent on a short thread engagement. Having said this, I am not aware of any failures with their product.

      This season Spruce Mountain has introduced a track binding available on the Osprey skiboard that uses an add-on plate mounted above the top sheet to threaded inserts in the skiboard. Note that the skiboard still has inserts (those to mount a riser and extra inserts for the add-on plate) which gives a robust connection to the skiboards. Go to the Spruce Mountain website for more info: http://www.spruceski.com/spruce-130cm-osprey.html

      BTW: It is my understanding that Spruce Mountain is an authorized Head/Tyrolia binding supplier and the riser system conforms to all conditions imposed on them by the binding supplier. The claim of voiding the the safety of the binding is hogwash. (I resisted temptation and wanted to take the high road with my response, but I had to say it. Now you may be starting to appreciate why many of us purchase products from this site not the other.)
      sigpic


      Osprey, Sherpa, Custom Coda 120WT, Custom DS110, Condor (Green), Spliff

      Custom Twist Out duck foot bindings, Bombers (custom duck foot base plate and 3 pads), releasable S810ti on custom duck foot riser

      Nordica N3 NXT ski boots (best so far)


      Wife: 104 SII & 100 Blunt XL with S810ti bindings on custom "adjustable duck foot" risers

      Loaners: 125LE, 105 EMP, 101 KTP, 100 Blunt XL, 98 Slapdash, 88 Blunts

      Comment


      • #4
        The board has to be built with a metal layer specifically meant to drill through and attach release bindings like on skis. Otherwise, the bindings screws will pull out from the board. The boards on skiboards.com are built this way, most of the boards on skiboardsonline.com are not (with the exception of the new for this year offerings from Spruce Mountain, which can be ordered with a rail system bindings and not a riser). The difference is in feel: the direct-mounted bindings restrict the ski from bending and that, in my opinion, makes the boards not handle well in certain situations. The larger your boot and the shorter and with a deeper sidecut the skiboard - the more pronounced the negative effects are. Depending on how you ski or the surface, you might or might not notice or mind it. Advantage is that these are a little lighter and a little cheaper. Basically, the riser or a non-release binding have very short contact area with the board, which allows the board to flex and arch when you load in a carving turn - it is impossible to do that with some of the versions with direct-mount release bindings, and that makes the skiboard carve clean turns poorly. The other advantage of the designs with 4x4 and 4x10 inserts is that you buy one Riser with release bindings or non-release bindings and can swap from board to board. Same with the new rail system from Spruce (although it acts like a direct-mount system with some of the flex restrictions, but with the longer boards with a less deep sidecut from Spruce I think that is less of an issue).

        Originally posted by mary View Post
        I'm looking at some release bindings and I have some questions. First, what's the deal with risers? I bought them for mine since that's what's sold here and I have to assume the setup works fairly well, but other sites (skiboards.com in particular) strongly discourage the use of risers saying they're unsafe and void any safety of the release bindings. Another reason I got risers is because they attach easily into the 4x4 pattern. So how do you attach bindings without a riser? What are your opinions/experiences and what do you suggest?

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Mary

          You may find this thread of interest when weighing up the advantages and disadvantages of Spruce Risers vs direct mount bindings. Summit is skiboards.com's house brand.
          As you may know, ysb33r posts regularly on the forum.
          2015 RVL8 Blunt XL 100 skiboards
          2019 Spruce Crossbow 115 skiboards
          Tyrolia Attack 13 release bindings on Spruce Risers
          Atomic Waymaker 80 ski boots

          Comment


          • #6
            Now I know of one direct mount failure. Thanks for the link.
            sigpic


            Osprey, Sherpa, Custom Coda 120WT, Custom DS110, Condor (Green), Spliff

            Custom Twist Out duck foot bindings, Bombers (custom duck foot base plate and 3 pads), releasable S810ti on custom duck foot riser

            Nordica N3 NXT ski boots (best so far)


            Wife: 104 SII & 100 Blunt XL with S810ti bindings on custom "adjustable duck foot" risers

            Loaners: 125LE, 105 EMP, 101 KTP, 100 Blunt XL, 98 Slapdash, 88 Blunts

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by slow View Post
              Now I know of one direct mount failure. Thanks for the link.
              Do you know of any problems that have been a result of risers? And if anyone here uses them regularly, how have the ones sold here worked?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by mary View Post
                Do you know of any problems that have been a result of risers? And if anyone here uses them regularly, how have the ones sold here worked?
                I have been using the riser for over ten years. There are no issues with the system. I'm still using the first one I bought made of composite instead of aluminum. Doc Roberts is purposely putting out misinformation to further his gain. More than one of his direct mount bindings has had problems with screws pulling out. He had to enlarge the reinforcement plate on his boards to remedy the problem.
                Now: 08 Sherpa's (2), Atomic 120's, 2013 125 Protos, 125 LEs, 2014 Sherpas, Osprey protos, 2015 Blunt XL's, 2016 Ospreys, Ethan Too twintip skis,2017 Shredfest One of kind Spliffs, 2018 Crossbows
                Bindings: Spruce Risers and Tyrolia LD12's
                Boots: Full Tilt Booters, Tecnica Agent 110
                History: Atomic shorty's, Sporten, Groove Taxis, Head 94's, ALPs, Spruce 120 Blue boards, Custom Lacroixs, Rocker Condors, 08 Summit 110's, Hagan offlimits 133's, Rossi 130's, 2011 Summit Marauders

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mary View Post
                  Do you know of any problems that have been a result of risers? And if anyone here uses them regularly, how have the ones sold here worked?
                  I have used release, non release and direct fix bindings purchased from both sites. They all have their pros and cons, which vary with personal preference. I have not encountered any quality or operational issues with any of the products.
                  Just these, nothing else !

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    My husband and I have been using the Spruce riser setup for over 8 years, and they've worked perfectly since the day we got them from Jeff. We only use these bindings with Spruce or Revel8 boards.

                    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
                    '07 "soft" ALPs
                    Eyeball DLPs
                    125 LEs
                    Ospreys mounted bindings
                    Crossbows
                    Spruce riser release bindings
                    Sometimes borrower of Chad's spare Blunt XLs

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Okay. Thanks everyone. Any success stories from people who use a direct mount and not a riser?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I had a pair of Summit 110 cm Custom boards that came with direct fix Tyrolia Demo bindings. They worked just fine and I never had any issues them. I did eventually remove them to customize the boards and make use of the 4X4 inserts.
                        Just these, nothing else !

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi guys

                          I'm hoping to join the skiboarding family soon and have been looking around what to buy.
                          What concerns the skiboards I've narrowed it down to RVL8 Revolts but I have a question about the riser/binding combinations.

                          Here in Europe we don't have dealer of the Spruce riser system but I found a similar system made by Eman on the Czech webshop for skiboarding (which apparently represents skiboarding in Europe as I haven't found anything else).

                          Technical details:
                          New Eman Skiboard Plate consists from 2 hardened Alloy plates and pair of reliable Head SX bindings.
                          shortest contact lenght 130mm for perfect flex
                          aircraft hardened alloy
                          4x4 mount for all skiboards
                          for boots from 271 to 364mm
                          Comes Standard with leashes and screws
                          height 46mm

                          My question, where could the difference be between these and the Spruce Riser Pro Sport?
                          Simply put it all comes down to an aluminium plate with bindings on top, so the big difference will be in the bindings then?
                          This Eman/Head combo comes down to around 135 USD compared to 199 USD for the Spruce setup.
                          Taking into account additional shipping cost from the US compared to from the Czech republic the price gap becomes bigger.

                          Looking forward to your expertise!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Shorterthanlife View Post
                            .... My question, where could the difference be between these and the Spruce Riser Pro Sport? ......
                            As a delivery vessel to connect a standard release ski binding to a skiboard they are the same concept. Primary differences are:

                            1 - The Spruce Riser will interface with 4cm x 4cm and 4cm x 10cm skiboard binding insert patterns. The Eman system will only work with 4x4 inserts. With the Revolts this will be fine but will limit you from going to long board skiboards (primarily over 110cm made by Spruce).

                            2 - The Spruce Riser is available with different bindings and with brakes. Eman is one binding fits all and leashes.

                            3 - The Eman system is a solid plate (I think) and the Spruce system is an aluminum channel. Not sure that impacts anything but it's a difference.

                            On either system you are a similar binding with equal safety capabilities. Unless you think you are going to add some Spruce long board skiboards to your quiver you'll be fine with the Eman system. Even if you do go to long boards you could always drill the Eman plates for 4x10 inserts. For what you are saving in shipping you could even pay a machinist to do this rather than do it yourself.
                            Boards:
                            2016 Spruce tuned Head Jr. Caddys - 131cm
                            2013 Spruce "CTS" 120s
                            2010 Spruce "Yellow/Red" 120s
                            2018 Spruce "CTS" Crossbows - 115cm
                            2016 RVL8 Spliffs - 109cm
                            2008 RVL8 Revolt "City" - 105cm
                            2017 RVL8 Sticky Icky Icky - 104cm
                            2011 Defiance Blades - 101cm

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thank you all for your help my next question is this: is there a place I can buy JUST the risers? I believe I convinced my fiance that he should use them, but he already purchased bindings.

                              Comment

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